Come regular season, we're gonna look more like we did vs Eagles than vs Packers

[Solon16]

Pinky better not stinky...ha ha ha

[DirtyDawg]

I'm not so sure that fixing the "swing passes to running backs in the flats" problem will be so easy. We lack speed at the OLB position as we all know, and that's not exactly a problem you fix over night unless you sign new players. Those are going to be the guys responsible for coverage on those plays a lot of the time.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Bronx Cheer

Why wasn't Bernard rotated in until after the first units were done?

I understand some of your concerns. To answer the question above I think it's mostly preseason evaluation of young guys that need the reps. Even though we used a different scheme last year - there's tons of film Jauron has on Benard and Ward. We've actually got quite a bit of film of Benard coming out of a 3 point stance. As for Ward, he had a history of wear and tear on the knee in college so there's nothing he needs to prove in starting over what we have before the opener.

In addition, preseason is a time to trial and error schemes a DC has used in the past. For instance, if Jauron wants to see how our OLBer & DEs handle X-stunt blitzes off the edge - we're going to be vulnerable to short passes at the LBers.

In the first game vrs GB, the middle of the D as well as as the enormous cavity between the dline and secondary was was huge for a guy like Aaron Rodgers. I haven't seen space like that since Bob Slowik was here running They ran crossing routes like we didn't have anyone there. Somebody brought up anemic pass rush but the ball was coming out of QBs hands so early due to the short give-mes - tt just wasn't a good game to gage our outside pass rush.

Changing to ONLY 3 LBers means we better have RELIABLE coverage guys and young legs. I tried to say we ALSO needed good cover guys all offseason when we were talking outside pass rushers for a while almost exclusively. I DO believe we need both; because your good teams can attack specifically what's missing.

Sheard looked a little better than Mitchell to me. I think we'll see ALOT of Benard in the DE rotation. I didn't understand who gave him the advice to show up 20 pounds heavier in 2011 though. Maybe they told him he needed to contest the run better. Mitchell's biggest problem from what I saw vrs Philly was he took an inside olay move on the edge blocker and a QB like Vick cashed in 6 points later. VERY correctable when he gets shown this on film in front of a room full of defensive teammates. Having Fujita behind 1 of the DEs gives me comfort. Ytown indicated they were putting Jackson on the other side with Brown in the middle in practices so we could see that when Brown is healthy again.

Last but not least, my FAVORITE way to defend the quick throw is having the big DTs getting upfield or crushing the inside pocket. Just keep in mind, these quick throws have QBs standing closer to the oline. That's gonna really throw a monkey wrench into the QB's footwork, mechanics and maybe even vision if he's a shorter guy. I thought we saw this vrs Philly especially early on when we knocked the football out of Vick's hands and recovered it. I think we also had an inside X-Stunt (blitz) where Jackson's pressure forced an INT that was negated by a roughing the passer thang. Our owner isn't best buddies with Goodell like Pittsburgh's so we get flagged. Even worse, when film confirms Harrison leading with his helmet - their fans end up paying the fines and all excesses go to charity so now that asshole doesn't have to pay taxes. Nice world for nice guy? Don't get me started.

[Crow]

Originally Posted by DeadWombat

I miss seeing that fucking pikachu on your avatar.

I'm glad the Pikachu avatar got over on a football website.

[Sez.EJ]

Don't make too too much about the swing passes to RB's this preaseason so far. A real gameplan for a RB like Philli's would take away or minimizes a lot of those RB passes. It's preseason.. In a regular season game we would have a more designated plan for that. If we are playing a team like Philli where the RB gets 65 balls a year vs a team like Cinci where Benson only catches 20 passes per year.The gameplan is totally different.

I agree.. LB's coverage seems to be an issue., but we really have not seen the whole package yet. We ARE seeing our lack of depth vs the contending teams already.Which is why we are not close to contending in our division yet.....but we have known this from minute one this year, with this new regime coming in and the scheme changes on both sides of the ball.. We will just have to suffer through that and hope when the injuries happen that the young guys learn and get better and turn into that depth we need in the future and even better...take jobs in future years.

[YtownBacker]

The official call of the penalty was helmet to the chin. DQJ said after a bit into the game the ref told him it was a legal hit and he missed it.

As far as swing passed, I am very worried about them. Once a team see a weakness they exploit it. With
Gocong and Ward it might not be a a problem but it sure was with Maiava and Ventrone.

[Jax Dawg]

Originally Posted by Flugel

I understand some of your concerns. To answer the question above I think it's mostly preseason evaluation of young guys that need the reps. Even though we used a different scheme last year - there's tons of film Jauron has on Benard and Ward. We've actually got quite a bit of film of Benard coming out of a 3 point stance. As for Ward, he had a history of wear and tear on the knee in college so there's nothing he needs to prove in starting over what we have before the opener.

In addition, preseason is a time to trial and error schemes a DC has used in the past. For instance, if Jauron wants to see how our OLBer & DEs handle X-stunt blitzes off the edge - we're going to be vulnerable to short passes at the LBers.

In the first game vrs GB, the middle of the D as well as as the enormous cavity between the dline and secondary was was huge for a guy like Aaron Rodgers. I haven't seen space like that since Bob Slowik was here running They ran crossing routes like we didn't have anyone there. Somebody brought up anemic pass rush but the ball was coming out of QBs hands so early due to the short give-mes - tt just wasn't a good game to gage our outside pass rush.

Changing to ONLY 3 LBers means we better have RELIABLE coverage guys and young legs. I tried to say we ALSO needed good cover guys all offseason when we were talking outside pass rushers for a while almost exclusively. I DO believe we need both; because your good teams can attack specifically what's missing.

Sheard looked a little better than Mitchell to me. I think we'll see ALOT of Benard in the DE rotation. I didn't understand who gave him the advice to show up 20 pounds heavier in 2011 though. Maybe they told him he needed to contest the run better. Mitchell's biggest problem from what I saw vrs Philly was he took an inside olay move on the edge blocker and a QB like Vick cashed in 6 points later. VERY correctable when he gets shown this on film in front of a room full of defensive teammates. Having Fujita behind 1 of the DEs gives me comfort. Ytown indicated they were putting Jackson on the other side with Brown in the middle in practices so we could see that when Brown is healthy again.

Last but not least, my FAVORITE way to defend the quick throw is having the big DTs getting upfield or crushing the inside pocket. Just keep in mind, these quick throws have QBs standing closer to the oline. That's gonna really throw a monkey wrench into the QB's footwork, mechanics and maybe even vision if he's a shorter guy. I thought we saw this vrs Philly especially early on when we knocked the football out of Vick's hands and recovered it. I think we also had an inside X-Stunt (blitz) where Jackson's pressure forced an INT that was negated by a roughing the passer thang. Our owner isn't best buddies with Goodell like Pittsburgh's so we get flagged. Even worse, when film confirms Harrison leading with his helmet - their fans end up paying the fines and all excesses go to charity so now that asshole doesn't have to pay taxes. Nice world for nice guy? Don't get me started.

All good points Tom but may I add while I saw a better pass rush from Sheard vs Mitchell one thing that concerns me was when Philly ran right at Sheard he was out of position to make a play because he was too concerned with beating his man to get to Vick. This was one of your arguments against drafting the (mighty vs small schools but disappears vs big schools) Quinn from NC and I agreed but Sheard is obviously a pass rush first kind of guy and teams are going to run right at him all year with great success until he fixes that aspect of his game.

[DawgFan]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

The official call of the penalty was helmet to the chin. DQJ said after a bit into the game the ref told him it was a legal hit and he missed it.

As far as swing passed, I am very worried about them. Once a team see a weakness they exploit it. With
Gocong and Ward it might not be a a problem but it sure was with Maiava and Ventrone.

I see this not as a LB problem, but a S problem. Our S's are currently backups that are not supporting short as much as they should. Add in that Gocong is still out and Fujita was seeing his first playing reps, and you get 4 out of the starting back 7 are backups. With Gocong, Fujita, Ward and Young in there, I think you will see a lot more action in the middle of the field and this issue will be resolved. It does, however, point out the fact that we are not very deep. Even so, how often does a team try to convert to a new system and have over half of it's starters not on the field?

[nmills]

Did you guys see what the Lions did to the Patriots yesterday?? That made me feel alot better about what we were able to do against them.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by DawgFan

I see this not as a LB problem, but a S problem. Our S's are currently backups that are not supporting short as much as they should. Add in that Gocong is still out and Fujita was seeing his first playing reps, and you get 4 out of the starting back 7 are backups. With Gocong, Fujita, Ward and Young in there, I think you will see a lot more action in the middle of the field and this issue will be resolved. It does, however, point out the fact that we are not very deep. Even so, how often does a team try to convert to a new system and have over half of it's starters not on the field?

Some good points made Dawfan. And I undoubtedly think Jauron looked at some X-stunts (blitzes) removing LBers from coverage locations. On outside X-stunts, the DEs basically become walkoff coverguys for the flats, while the OLBer shoots inside of the OT tackle. If they are swing passing us on those stunts - OURs better giddyup and getafter it. That's why Heckerts wants LIGHTER DEs than 280 pounds in the 4-3 with blitz packages. When Jackson hit Vick, he wasn't in coverage and somebody made an INT prior to the yellow flag. I don't think we're going to be making TJ Ward responsible for covering the flats/outside or we're placing an enormous bullseye down centerfield with speedsters like Mike Wallace capable of exploiting that. We had a hard enough time WITH Ward there just turning the wrong way for a split second.

Our LBers are going to have to cover RBs in hook zones and the flats so first step is going to be the difference between tackling someone at the first down marker or knocking a pass down/intercepting it. They all gotta work together with zone transition and depth of drops. I hate to single out 1 position for blowing it. In addition, when we blitz especially if the blitz doesn't get there, there's going to be a cavities to exploit. I was happy with the pressure vrs Phily; but LeSean Mccoy had about 7 or 8 receptions in 2-3 quarters of football representing their methodical approach to getting into position to score on us. If he stayed in the game, that's easily anywhere between 12 to 15 receptions. Hard to believe Andy Reid once said he needed to become a better pass receiver out of the backfield. The guy had 78 receptions last year on top of Vick's ability to escape the pocket for 9 rushing TDs.

The outcome of Thursday was a little bit of everything. Just like we don't want to CHUG Kool Aid - we also don't want to race to any premature conclusions from preseason results. 1 week agon, Philly got spanked by a team the Redskins beat the week before.