Come regular season, we're gonna look more like we did vs Eagles than vs Packers

[DeadWombat]

This is my yearly "put down the kool-aide and realize we're a crappy team" thread. :P

Colt looked good. He showed touch and poise. Our receivers looked absolutely HORRID. Holy crap, they looked bad. This even has nothing to do with the fact that the Iggles secondary is beastly... im talking about route running, dropped passes, missed opportunity, ect. Yes, the Iggles secondary is scary. But catch the damn ball. Even glue-hands Moore dropped a pass. Robo's only good caught pass didn't count cause he had to go push off. When Greg Little went off on Hillis after he dropped a pass... wow. Dude needs to watch his attitude. He has no right and is in no place to criticize. Hillis was the one to pull away Lauvao during a skirmish in the same game. Now, THAT'S class.

On defense we looked slow as hell and could not tackle. SLOW AS HELL. I've heard mentioned a lack of speed on our team, and it really showed tonight. Phil Taylor decided to suddenly be an absolute beast after 2 quiet games... maybe its cause of the Iggles O-line not knowing what to do with him, though. We also have no idea what to do with the RB/TE check-down. That's something I noticed since preseason game 1. There's always an open field when Vick cheked down. I hate defenses that are heavy on the zone. Also, holy shit: penalties!

The Iggles didn't win the game so much as we lost it. And that bodes much, much worse for us. We didn't execute. We made mistakes. The Iggles capitalized on that.

We still have a lot of work to do, fellas. We're a young team with not a lot of talent. Granted, we have more talent on this roster than we've had in years (and that's something I say with real excitement), but still... its not a lot of talent. Glad this was just a preseason game.

[Sez.EJ]

My take on this is not quite so gloomy.. Not coolaidish either.. I think we are somewhere in the middle of what Wombat says above.. We won't always look like that team against the Packers...but not as bad as last night either. Lousy hurricane weather tonight effected both teams.

DEFENSE: We essentially shut out the Eagles WR's and the secondary did a very nice job knocking down balls.. The RB checkdowns killed us..that can be fixed. Vick only complete ONE pass to a WR and only ONE pass to a TE.. All his other passes were to RB's. We essentially shut out the passing game down the field completely. (weather?) Phil Taylor looked disruptive...although the Eagles were playing rookies on his side...but you can only beat who you play so it was a big positive seeing that from him. We pummelled Vick all night with pressure (9 knockdowns...that's really good for a 1/2 of football) We sacked him, made him fumble a snap. and kept him "relatively" in check running the ball (as best you can with Vick..he's an amazing runner) That was refreshing. I love the pressure that Taylor an Rubin give up the middle..that is going to give QB's nightmares and make thinks easier for the DE's and LB's to make big plays. DQJ looked good again. We did not hold the edges well but it seemed like we were really focused on getting upfield and it killed us a few times. Did not see any injuries. +++

OFFENSE: I think we can now accept how valuable Steinbach is to making that OL machine work. He'll be there come game one and is a difference maker on the OL even at his age. We need to resign him for another deal. Pashos still looks sucky to me..always has, but hope he can at least hold up this season.. He's just borderline average at RT..but that's what we have for this season and have to live with that. Mistakes, mistakes , mistakes killed us on offense..tons of penalties. Again.. gotta catch the ball even if the weather is lousy... Robo .... mmm still not sure. He does catch the ball well, but...... Little again looks explosive and will be a weapon.. Moore continues to get open. Watson will again be reliable and open. It was nice seeing Hardesty get some action and he looked up to the backup task for Hillis, who again looks strong and beastly with the ball in his hands.. The offense will go through Hillis again this year. It's good cuz he can be counted on to bring it. We finally have some guys who can spell him better and keep him fresh. We need Momass on the practice field this week. Cribbs was out too tonight. We need those guys and fortunately no serious injuries for either one right now. Colt had bad ,bad, bad, protection. No one can be productive like that. Just ask Mike Vick..he was harrassed just as bad tonight and looked even worse than Colt trying to throw downfield. .Even Joe Thomas got worked a couple times and got sacked on + a penalty.. It was not a great night..but not the disaster Wombat is making it.. They don't gameplan for preseason.

It was not pretty.. still some positives to take away. Compared to the past few years..this is looking better to me.

[nickers]

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

My take on this is not quite so gloomy.. Not coolaidish either.. I think we are somewhere in the middle of what Wombat says above.. We won't always look like that team against the Packers...but not as bad as last night either. Lousy hurricane weather tonight effected both teams.

DEFENSE: We essentially shut out the Eagles WR's and the secondary did a very nice job knocking down balls.. The RB checkdowns killed us..that can be fixed. Vick only complete ONE pass to a WR and only ONE pass to a TE.. All his other passes were to RB's. We essentially shut out the passing game down the field completely. (weather?) Phil Taylor looked disruptive...although the Eagles were playing rookies on his side...but you can only beat who you play so it was a big positive seeing that from him. We pummelled Vick all night with pressure (9 knockdowns...that's really good for a 1/2 of football) We sacked him, made him fumble a snap. and kept him "relatively" in check running the ball (as best you can with Vick..he's an amazing runner) That was refreshing. I love the pressure that Taylor an Rubin give up the middle..that is going to give QB's nightmares and make thinks easier for the DE's and LB's to make big plays. DQJ looked good again. We did not hold the edges well but it seemed like we were really focused on getting upfield and it killed us a few times. Did not see any injuries. +++

OFFENSE: I think we can now accept how valuable Steinbach is to making that OL machine work. He'll be there come game one and is a difference maker on the OL even at his age. We need to resign him for another deal. Pashos still looks sucky to me..always has, but hope he can at least hold up this season.. He's just borderline average at RT..but that's what we have for this season and have to live with that. Mistakes, mistakes , mistakes killed us on offense..tons of penalties. Again.. gotta catch the ball even if the weather is lousy... Robo .... mmm still not sure. He does catch the ball well, but...... Little again looks explosive and will be a weapon.. Moore continues to get open. Watson will again be reliable and open. It was nice seeing Hardesty get some action and he looked up to the backup task for Hillis, who again looks strong and beastly with the ball in his hands.. The offense will go through Hillis again this year. It's good cuz he can be counted on to bring it. We finally have some guys who can spell him better and keep him fresh. We need Momass on the practice field this week. Cribbs was out too tonight. We need those guys and fortunately no serious injuries for either one right now. Colt had bad ,bad, bad, protection. No one can be productive like that. Just ask Mike Vick..he was harrassed just as bad tonight and looked even worse than Colt trying to throw downfield. .Even Joe Thomas got worked a couple times and got sacked on + a penalty.. It was not a great night..but not the disaster Wombat is making it.. They don't gameplan for preseason.

It was not pretty.. still some positives to take away. Compared to the past few years..this is looking better to me.

Totally agreed on Sez,good take.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

My take on this is not quite so gloomy.. Not coolaidish either.. I think we are somewhere in the middle of what Wombat says above.. We won't always look like that team against the Packers...but not as bad as last night either. Lousy hurricane weather tonight effected both teams.

DEFENSE: We essentially shut out the Eagles WR's and the secondary did a very nice job knocking down balls.. The RB checkdowns killed us..that can be fixed. Vick only complete ONE pass to a WR and only ONE pass to a TE.. All his other passes were to RB's. We essentially shut out the passing game down the field completely. (weather?) Phil Taylor looked disruptive...although the Eagles were playing rookies on his side...but you can only beat who you play so it was a big positive seeing that from him. We pummelled Vick all night with pressure (9 knockdowns...that's really good for a 1/2 of football) We sacked him, made him fumble a snap. and kept him "relatively" in check running the ball (as best you can with Vick..he's an amazing runner) That was refreshing. I love the pressure that Taylor an Rubin give up the middle..that is going to give QB's nightmares and make thinks easier for the DE's and LB's to make big plays. DQJ looked good again. We did not hold the edges well but it seemed like we were really focused on getting upfield and it killed us a few times. Did not see any injuries. +++

OFFENSE: I think we can now accept how valuable Steinbach is to making that OL machine work. He'll be there come game one and is a difference maker on the OL even at his age. We need to resign him for another deal. Pashos still looks sucky to me..always has, but hope he can at least hold up this season.. He's just borderline average at RT..but that's what we have for this season and have to live with that. Mistakes, mistakes , mistakes killed us on offense..tons of penalties. Again.. gotta catch the ball even if the weather is lousy... Robo .... mmm still not sure. He does catch the ball well, but...... Little again looks explosive and will be a weapon.. Moore continues to get open. Watson will again be reliable and open. It was nice seeing Hardesty get some action and he looked up to the backup task for Hillis, who again looks strong and beastly with the ball in his hands.. The offense will go through Hillis again this year. It's good cuz he can be counted on to bring it. We finally have some guys who can spell him better and keep him fresh. We need Momass on the practice field this week. Cribbs was out too tonight. We need those guys and fortunately no serious injuries for either one right now. Colt had bad ,bad, bad, protection. No one can be productive like that. Just ask Mike Vick..he was harrassed just as bad tonight and looked even worse than Colt trying to throw downfield. .Even Joe Thomas got worked a couple times and got sacked on + a penalty.. It was not a great night..but not the disaster Wombat is making it.. They don't gameplan for preseason.

It was not pretty.. still some positives to take away. Compared to the past few years..this is looking better to me.

That's a great job by you Sez! The game came on late on the NFL channel so I only watched part of the first half; but I have the next airing all tivo'd up. I missed Philly's openning TD so my observations miss that mess.

I'm really glad you noticed the value of Steinbach and pointed it out to us. Double thumbs up! Yesterday was sloppy and I expected the Eagles at HOME ready to rebound from getting spanked the week before.

The offense was sloppy. Aside from what Sez mentioned, Joe Thomas also got flagged for a false start reminding us why there's preseason in the first place. It was good to se Hardesty's knee could withstand his first game action. I hope we remain smart with him while Jackson is here. Colt looked accurate against the highest paid secondary. Understanding how many starts he has to his name, he STILL needs to learn some things he can't get away with at the pro level. Then again, did Favre ever totally learn that? We don't want a sissy mentality back there but we hope to walk the fine line of learning from mistakes within that mindset.

The Jerry Springer of our message board Brian Robiskie played well against some of the highest paid corners. I doubt we'll be signing the 7th best WR from the Rams to cut Robiskie with. I've certainly been wrong before though. It would have been nice to see what came of all the extra work MoMass put in during the offseason but injury sort of ruined that as of late. This was an important training camp for Mitchell too so I feel bad for both kids. If necessary, he's stashable on PUP or worst case scenario-IR.

Phil Taylor was a monster, which might have relieved any concerns anybone had about him. I thought Sheard looked better than Mitchell off the edge. When Mitchell shot inside his tackle (surrendering outside leverage containment) - Vick COULD have walked for the TD he scored if Rubin wasn't 20 pounds lighter. All that said, it's a coachable teaching moment in the film room that can be fixed before experience and game reps takes care of that further.

Do you know what the BIGGEST thing I've learned as a fan is? We're NEVER going to have EVERYONE healthy at once so I gotta STOP myself from the thinking of we'll be fine as soon as everyone is healthy. For example, we signed upgrades in 2010 where we planned Pashos to start over St Clair and Scott Fujita to start at OLBer. Losing either guy was catastrophic enough remind us of what we so desperately needed to upgrade in the first place. Our defense died without the pulse of Fujita. Meanwhile, any hopes of consistent pass protection led to 3 different QBs in walking boots; which outrageously gave Peyton Hillis the first real shot at carpet diem running the rock. The best way to explain such a phenomenon is heavy John Deere Tractors work best going forward so guys like Womack and Grandpa St Clair (Pork Chops and Apple Sauce) do better when they don't have to mirror better athletes laterally. In spite of all the controversy, Hillis' best days were when Cribbs either started or played without concussion and/or 4 disloacted toes. He was the deciding factor in how many guys or opponents loaded the box with.

I don't think any 1 preseason game allows us to chug a pitcher of Kool Aid nor should it warrant anyone joining Dead Wombat in preparation for burying this team's season with another Wombat. If he's right, you know I'm gonna be another one of those poor Wombats and rightfully so. This is just a suggestion nobody is obligated to take. Try to go 1 week at a time this year without racing to the finish line as early as weel 1 or 2 (good or bad). That's the SAME advice any NFL coach worth his keep gives to his players. There's too many changes overnight for me to be thinking 12-4 or Superbowl Sunday. That doesn't mean I don't think we can turn the corner and enjoy it or I wouldn't waste my time with such a hobby here. I always prefer to be pleasantly surprised anyway.

[grumpy_dinosaur]

Good take sez, gotta say that's pretty much dead on how I feel. There were good and bad on both sides of the ball for us, but overall it wasn't a catastrophe. For having as many starters out as we did it could have been much much worse. We're also not going to face a secondary like this every game, I'd say the we probably look something in between Det and this game most of the time. I mean shit Phili has a scary ass D when you think about it, a tough ass front 4 and a ridiculous secondary to boot. Couple bs penalties gone, and I think this game would have played out a little different. While I'm on it how the fuck is it roughing the passer when you hit the QB in the act of throwing and you head is in the middle of his chest?!!! Eat a pile of guano, fucking ref.

[golfer704u]

I'm probably closer to Sez than Wombat, but I think he makes a slightly good point. Anyone after the first two preseason games that had delusions of granduer should temper their enthusiasm just a little.

Talk of 10 wins and playoffs is a bit premature. This team is better than last year, and I'm more impressed with the coaching staff than I expected to be. But as last night showed, we still have a LONG way to go to compete with the true playoff contenders.

Week 1 against the packers was an anomoly because it was the first games so things were pretty generic.

But that doesn't also mean you can't be excited and enjoy watching things develop and know that we are going in the right direction. Colt McCoy to me even in a bad game still looks promising and I look forward to watching his growth this year. The offense looks aggressive and I like that.

Seeing Phil Taylor have a good game encourages me on the D-line and you have to remember for that "slow" defense, we were missing Ward, Young and Gocong.

So again, I think this game showed some truths, but this preseason should give Browns fans hope overall

[pl4tinum]

Agreed as well. If Hillis catches it off his hands in the end zone; Moore catches that long pass right off his hands; Robiskie doesnt get called for pushing off with two hands; our return team doesn't brainfart repeatedly and Dawson's kick doesnt get blocked and the score is reversed... not to mention the bullshit call on DQ Blizzurd

[hiwaygal]

Originally Posted by DeadWombat

When Greg Little went off on Hillis after he dropped a pass... wow.

anybody got a video of this???

That Little guy might have gone and done PISSED me off!

[Dan in Florida]

Originally Posted by hiwaygal

anybody got a video of this???

That Little guy might have gone and done PISSED me off!

Wow, when did THAT happen? I can replay the it, I have the game Tivoed.



I love following the Browns :P

[grumpy_dinosaur]

Originally Posted by Dan in Florida

Wow, when did THAT happen? I can replay the it, I have the game Tivoed.



I love following the Browns :P

He was talking and moving in Hillis' direction but Hillis didn't react at all that I remember so it's pretty doubtful little was going off on him

[YtownBacker]

Bottom line is 8 starters didn't even dress so we didn't see our first team. Bad news is we saw the guys that will replace them if we sustain any long term injuries.

Pinkston replacing Steinbach was a disaster, good take on the Sez.

Staying healthy is the key to this teams success because we have little depth. And I don't mean playoffs type of success, I mean 8-8 type of success. The complete rebuild isn't there yet but there are some positives.

[Brown Warrior]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Watch the tape... Hillis did NOT drop that pass! If that's really what Little was gesturing about (I hoped it was calling for a PI), he was just dead wrong. It's a clean defensive play and Hillis had zero shot.

Maybe Little could've gone 42" and snatched it prior to the deflection but to expect that of Hillis is a little unrealistic.

Moore's drop wasn't really a drop. He lost that ball. I think the defender "flashed," he lost sight, looked up into the lights, and seemed to move his hands at the last moment.