Game Summary

[Riffer X]

My thoughts on the game while trying to keep the emotions somewhat corralled.

There were some bright spots. I didn't believe coming into the game that Cincy was as bad as everyone thinks. That being said, I think the Browns are more talented and obviously should have won this game.

The penalties have to be the number one priority. Nothing pisses me off more than an undisciplined football team that shoots itself in the foot. I expect this will get better, but there is no excuse for it. I don't care about the limited offseason and new schemes, being a stupid football player will cost your team wins.

Some other stupid things: Little has to be smarter at seeing where Cribbs is on the field. Laying out the punter did nothing, Cribbs would have easily passed him by. He said after the game he would have scored if Little did not damn near knock him out.

Shurmur is questioning whether or not Cincy subbed before the quick snap. The understanding is that if the offense makes substitutions, the defense must be allowed to do the same before the ball is snapped. Regardless, this should have never happened. At least call a TO or something, everybody dropped the ball on this.

Evan Moore was slightly disappointing today. He slowed up on the deep endzone pass and then never made a good effort to get the ball. I didn't think he fought for the ball well on some others and when running after the catch he didn't look inspired. He got knocked out of bounds for about 8 yards on one run because he wasn't aggressive. MoMass still has issues adjusting to deep throws, and that is bothersome.

The Browns failed miserably by not going after a legit RT this offseason. Counting on Pashos is ignorant, and although I wasn't in favor of too many FAs, I thought RT had to be a priority. Cousins seemed to play decent, but Hicks was a mess and Pinky had his rough spots. I believe both Pinky and Cousins are now banged up also, so this could get worse.

I was slightly disappointed with Colt today. Keep in mind that the rain didn't help anything when we were forced to pass and Hicks was getting beat by Dunlap on every snap. I just thought he was a little shaky in the pocket and overall wasn't as sharp as he could have been, even with the line struggling. That said, his deep throw to MoMass on the dead run was a thing of beauty and showed some arm.

Basically, I don't think the offense ever really got in sync. It started with the first play of the game and continued with the penalty BS. I was disappointed in the red zone (first down and goal at the 3) and third down missed opportunities 4 for 15, this is supposed to be a strength with mismatches. I also think Shurms could have made some better calls to offset the Bengals blitzing and change things up a little bit. It's looking like the running game is paying the price for not having much emphasis put on it in camp. I expect it to get better and Hardesty looked nice.

We are going to continue to see aggressive defenses, so it is imperative the Colt starts getting rid of the ball quicker. Little needs to learn how to come back slightly for the ball to create space between him and the defender. I don't think the receivers ever got on track like they could have, mostly because of the earlier mistakes and later the rain and the fact Cincy knew we had to throw.

McGhee had some dud punts in preseason and that stuff today was unacceptable. You can say it pretty much cost us the game. They want him to work out because he is the kick holder, but they can't stay with him much longer.

Jackson played pretty well on defense. You can nitpick the whole unit, but they played well enough to win overall considering all the other mistakes, They simply wore down late. Haden was all over the place and Taylor knocked out Dalton. Sheard made some noise also, but it looks like Mitchell is our weak link up there. Look at the difference Dunlap made for them and what Mitchell didn't do for us. They seemed fairly physical and Young had a big hit. Keep in mind we haven't gotten anymore injuries yet to this unit. Also, Patterson has to make that play, it would have damn near clinched the game if he holds onto that pick.

Look around the league folks, 16 other teams are going to be 0 and 1 also. That includes some supposed good teams getting shellacked.

Pitt had 7 TOs and lost 35 to 7.
Atlanta gave us all those picks for Julio and got beat down in Chicago 30 to 12. Julio had 5 catches for 71 yards, mostly in junk time.
St. Louis got pounded 31 to 13. Sims Walker had 1 catch for 5 yards.
James Jones had 1 catch for 1 yard.
Indy went down 34 to 7, all because of no Manning.
Supposed up and comer KC got waxed by Buffalo 41 to 7.
Tampa lost to Detroit.
Cam Newton threw for 422 yards and lost.

Keep the faith folks, this will hopefully get better. We have some fairly talented guys in certain spots and others with potential. I think Shurms is a smart guy and will get things cleaned up, plus hopefully make some better adjustments and play calls. We are moving forward with the new plan and we have to stay patient. Throwing blame around isn't going to solve anything or make anyone right or wrong. Let's get a win against Indy, they are way vulnerable.

[Sez.EJ]

We also failed in getting Hillis established early in the game.. This would have given us better down and distance situations. It also would have helped the OL settle in run blocking and not having to come out and pass block time and time again in the very first game of the season. Not getting your most proven player on track early was a huge mistake. Hopefully one we will not make again.

May I also note.. Teams with new coaches this year... you know..the guys that had all of 6 weeks to get new teams ready.. are 1-4 so far this weekend..

[hiwaygal]

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

We also failed in getting Hillis established early in the game.. This would have given us better down and distance situations. It also would have helped the OL settle in run blocking and not having to come out and pass block time and time again in the very first game of the season. Not getting your most proven player on track early was a huge mistake. Hopefully one we will not make again.

Totally agree...they definitely needed to get the running game established well and often. If Hillis is double teamed, give it to Hardesty...change things up a bit and confuse the shit out of the defense so they DON'T KNOW if you're going to run or pass! Makes it easier for either play.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

We also failed in getting Hillis established early in the game.. This would have given us better down and distance situations. It also would have helped the OL settle in run blocking and not having to come out and pass block time and time again in the very first game of the season. Not getting your most proven player on track early was a huge mistake. Hopefully one we will not make again.

On this I agree, and while I understand Hillis needs a breather now and then, did it seem to anyone else they are trying to get Hardesty going as much as they are Hillis? Maybe because Heckert drafted Hardesty and not Hillis?

again, The EGOs in the management of this team scare me.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Shurmur is questioning whether or not Cincy subbed before the quick snap. The understanding is that if the offense makes substitutions, the defense must be allowed to do the same before the ball is snapped. Regardless, this should have never happened. At least call a TO or something, everybody dropped the ball on this.
.

Not only that, but throw the red flag and challenge it right after the TD. even if they say it can't be overturned because of that. Your objection is out there aright at the time, instead of sounding like sour grapes like it does now.

[plow]

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

We also failed in getting Hillis established early in the game.. This would have given us better down and distance situations. It also would have helped the OL settle in run blocking and not having to come out and pass block time and time again in the very first game of the season. Not getting your most proven player on track early was a huge mistake. Hopefully one we will not make again.

May I also note.. Teams with new coaches this year... you know..the guys that had all of 6 weeks to get new teams ready.. are 1-4 so far this weekend..

In my opinion this was probably the most disappointing thing today besides the 10 penalties in the first half. Hillis is a monster and we didn't use him nearly enough. Cincy did what we should have with benson, keep running him to open up the passing game. McCoy is not Brees/Rodgers/Brady, let the monster do the work to make it easier for him.

Hardesty didn't do too bad either that I can remember, we just didn't run much at all.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

Not only that, but throw the red flag and challenge it right after the TD. even if they say it can't be overturned because of that. Your objection is out there aright at the time, instead of sounding like sour grapes like it does now.

I see your point. But coaches are not allowed to red flag ANY TD's. That is handled upstairs. It is a 15 yard penalty enforced on the KO, which would be dumb considering Cribbs is back there returning.

[Riffer X]

Was Cincinnati Bengals' fast snap an illegal one, too? Browns are wondering

Published: Sunday, September 11, 2011, 9:31 PM Updated: Sunday, September 11, 2011, 9:32 PM

By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer
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View full sizeScott Heckel, Canton RepositoryA.J. Green had an easy stroll to the end zone Sunday after the Bengals caught the Browns defense unprepared for what became a 41-yard touchdown reception in the fourth quarter.
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Pat Shurmur is convinced the Bengals' game-winning touchdown pass to A.J. Green on Sunday came after they illegally quick-snapped the ball -- and caused mass confusion among his defenders.
With the defense still in its huddle, Bruce Gradkowski took the snap and fired to a wide-open Green, with Joe Haden hopelessly racing to catch up. The 41-yard score put the Bengals up 20-17 en route to their 27-17 victory in the opener.
"Yeah, they quick-snapped us," said Shurmur. "I have to watch the tape, but it's my understanding that they changed personnel, lined up and then quick-snapped it. There are rules that go along with that, so we'll see. That's what happened."
He explained, "My understanding is when the offense changes personnel, the defense is allowed to do so as well and have time to do it. We'll all see if that actually happened."
Television replays were inconclusive.
Said quarterback Bruce Gradkowski: "Jay [Gruden] called the play, I called the play in the huddle, and we lined up pretty quick, and that gave us the advantage. I think that was the easiest touchdown pass that I've ever experienced. I was kind of excited. I was looking around for a flag. I thought, 'I hope there's no flag.'"
Shurmur said he didn't call a timeout "because I didn't anticipate that the ball was going to get snapped."
The Bengals may have tried the same tactic earlier in the third quarter, but the officials flagged them for 12 men on the field. Coach Marvin Lewis argued and they picked up the flag. Haden made one of his five sensational pass-breakups on that drive to force a punt.
But this time, the Bengals may have gotten away with one.
Open the rulebook

• Rule 5, Section 2, Article 10
  Defensive Matchups Following Substitutions
  If a substitution is made by the offense, the offense shall not be permitted to snap the ball until the defense has been permitted to respond with its substitutions. While in the process of a substitution (or simulated substitution), the offense is prohibited from rushing quickly to the line of scrimmage and snapping the ball in an obvious attempt to cause a defensive foul (i.e., too many men on the field). If, in the judgment of the officials, this occurs, the following procedure will apply:
• (a) The umpire will stand over the ball until the referee deems that the defense has had a reasonable time to complete its substitutions.
• (b) If a play takes place and a defensive foul for too many players on the field results, no penalties will be enforced, except for personal fouls and unsportsmanlike conduct, and the down will be replayed. At this time, the referee will notify the head coach that any further use of this tactic will result in a penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct.

"We were in a base and then they changed into their nickel package, so we had to change into our nickel package," said Haden. "We were trying to get the play in. So we were standing there looking at D'Qwell [Jackson] and D'Qwell was trying to get the call. When they snapped the ball, all we heard was everybody screaming. We weren't ready and everybody was scrambling. So I just took off the toward the end zone.
"But I was just hoping the quarterback got hit or something. You can't catch him when you're 20 yards behind."
The confusion ran deeper than that. Nickel back Dimitri Patterson had re-injured his ankle the play before, so when the Browns tried to get in their nickel package, rookie Buster Skrine raced onto the field. But when he got out there, he saw Patterson was already there.
"We didn't know if Dimitri was ready to go or not so I just ran out onto the field," said Skrine. "When I saw Dimitri, I ran over to the other side of the field because I thought we were in dime [six defensive backs] for a second."
But it was supposed to be nickel -- five defensive backs?

[MackTruck]

The "quicksnap" was on the same page as the helmet toss. Not as bad as the game wasn't won yet, but a stupid thing that should have never happened.

Only in Cleveland.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Vegasdogg

I see your point. But coaches are not allowed to red flag ANY TD's. That is handled upstairs. It is a 15 yard penalty enforced on the KO, which would be dumb considering Cribbs is back there returning.

read the article...he wasn't thinking of the ramifications. he was dumfounded and flat footed.

Hopefully he'll learn from it.

[Riffer X]

I don't understand why it is so difficult for anyone to determine if Cincy did illegally substitute. I still haven't heard an answer.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

I don't understand why it is so difficult for anyone to determine if Cincy did illegally substitute. I still haven't heard an answer.

exactly. someone has the "all 22 cam" view. my guess is, it WASN'T illegal, or the Browns would be trotting it out this morning.