On Any Given sunday

[YtownBacker]

The sky isn't falling, it's just how things happen in the NFL. Despite all the knee jerk reactions after last weeks game this week the bottom line is "we are who we thought we were", average at best.

I go back to when the NFL wasn't a passing league and #32 was running for daylight and one thing I learned is that you are never as bad as you think after a loss and never as good as you think after a win. This is the NFL and on any given Sunday a bottom feeder can and sometimes will beat a top feeder.

There will be growing pains. There will be good games and bad games. We have a very young team and a young coach hurt by the lockout more then some want to admit. The hope is the coach will grow with the QB and with the rest of the team.

I realize EM will be brought up every time we lose and every time a WR drops a pass we will hear about how good Julio Jones is doing. But the facts are we aren't one WR away from winning consistently despite what Shep thinks. Time for a reality check................for those who said 6-10 or 7-9 we are headed there hopefully. Of course injuries, like always, will help dictate the final record. Both our injuries to key personnel and injuries to key personnel of teams we are playing.

The sky is only falling if you were one of those who thought our preseason game against GB was real while ignoring the other games. The sky is falling if you think you can take a roster seriously lacking talent and fix it in a year or two. We are headed in the right direction but it's a long road we are traveling.

If you are a realist that wasn't the sky falling after the Cincy game it was just a bird taking a shit. Sorry, but it's way to soon to tell if Shurmur sucks, McCoy is our franchise QB or if the draft day trade was good for the Browns as it will be for Atlanta. And, you don't develop young talent by bringing in a bunch of over paid over the hill players through free agency. You develop young players by letting them play. They will make mistakes and you they might even cost you a game of two but you will be a better team for doing it. I like our core players, I like some of the young players we are putting on the field and I even like the potential of our WRs in this WCO.

Still want to fire Holmgren and Heckert, fire Shurmur, tank the season, trade our draft picks, dive into free agency and let Shep rebuild us into a Arena League franchise?

I think 2-2 at the bye week and that's where this team should be.

[Bronx Cheer]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

Still want to fire Holmgren and Heckert, fire Shurmur, tank the season, trade our draft picks, dive into free agency and let Shep rebuild us into a Arena League franchise?

Generally agree about the highs and lows of fandom, but is there anybody on this board who really advocated any of the above except for signing some FAs? I think a few others have said they wouldn't have fired Mangini and started over with Shurmur/Jauron but I don't remember anyone clamoring for their firing (or H&H) after the first week.

As for FAs, I still say this team's D would look a hell of a lot better with a mid-level vet at DE and WILL instead of the crap we have, but supposedly $3M per or so to bring in a starters in FA on 1-2 year deals was too rich for Lerner. I also was all for signing a new RT or swing tackle (even advocated for paying an aging LT vet to move to RT and/or sit on our bench), but I obviously am not Tom Heckert.

I love building with youth. Really, I do. I just don't believe that having such glaring weaknesses, which could be relatively cheaply addressed, on our team does anything but teach our young core how to NOT win close games. Considering how much we all invest in terms of time and money on this team, it would be nice to feel like the team was balancing trying to be competitive immediately with long term growth.

[Bronx Cheer]

Also agree about 6-10 or 7-9 being our likely final record. That isn't much of an improvement record wise considering how soft our schedule is compared to last year, which puts a huge ugly black cloud over this entire season.

I guess I really am a Browns fan, because by December I'll be posting giddily about how the team appears to be playing better and better and actually convince myself that I am looking forward to watching potential draft targets in the Bowl games playing for teams I couldn't care less about instead of watching playoff games for a team I live and die with.

[Brown Warrior]

Originally Posted by Bronx Cheer

Also agree about 6-10 or 7-9 being our likely final record. That isn't much of an improvement record wise considering how soft our schedule is compared to last year, which puts a huge ugly black cloud over this entire season.

I guess I really am a Browns fan, because by December I'll be posting giddily about how the team appears to be playing better and better and actually convince myself that I am looking forward to watching potential draft targets in the Bowl games playing for teams I couldn't care less about instead of watching playoff games for a team I live and die with.

You're freaking me out. I could have written that very post.

We could've done more and it hasn't been explained why we didn't. No, this is not an explanation: "Shep/Bronx/Alo/Whoever wanted us to skip the draft, cut everyone under 30, and bring in old hasbeens with missing limbs on long-term billion dollar deals! Yeeeehaaa!!"

Alas... it usually goes there. I, too, am VERY much behind getting younger and identifying and locking down core players. Always have been.

[Bronx Cheer]

The FA move (or lack of move?) that really sticks in my craw is the failure to sign a LB. Thomas Howard, Tulloch, or McIntosh would've made a world of difference over Gocong and those guys are making peanuts on crappy teams in not so desirable cities. Who in their right mind would go to Cinci over Cle for the same money? The way the Brown family runs that franchise is a joke.

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

We've deleted posts by shep, ytown, and thaid in this thread, so no ...we do not play favorites BW. And yes, the OP did invite that to happen.

But this is how it goes when people get to a breaking point.

We'll still be attempting to put personal insults in hell, off topic posts just get sent to a internet wasteland somewhere.

It's already cleaning up the board ...and I would say it's a strange time to bail Ytown, right when we step in to clean things up.

Ok, carry on then ...on topic. (and no, the topic is not Shep/BW)

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Bronx Cheer

Generally agree about the highs and lows of fandom, but is there anybody on this board who really advocated any of the above except for signing some FAs? I think a few others have said they wouldn't have fired Mangini and started over with Shurmur/Jauron but I don't remember anyone clamoring for their firing (or H&H) after the first week.

Thanks for that, I was going to write it myself. I was probably the loudest of critics and I said repeatedly I didn't want Shumur fired. What I showed was my frustration that coaching and preparation are what lost that first game, not playing or really even playcalling. And what was more frustrating was that it was a team we should have beaten. And if we had we'd be 2-0 and on top of the divison right now.

I still think 7-9 is the very top of where we might end up this year. But if they play more games like they did against Indy, even if they lose, I'll be looking forward to next year when we can bring in even more talent.

On the FA side, I just don't think you can understand enough how much changing coaches during a lockout season affected EVERYTHING. Even which FAs were signed or not signed. It's hard for a new coach to work with Heckert on which young players have a chance in his system and which don't. So while bringing in a few mid level FA's MIGHT give you a chance to increase your win total from 6 to maybe 8 games, are you doing it at the cost of really evaluating what you already have? I believe you see them be much more agreesive in both the draft and free agency in this next off season. And I think that was the right way to go.

[Bronx Cheer]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

On the FA side, I just don't think you can understand enough how much changing coaches during a lockout season affected EVERYTHING. Even which FAs were signed or not signed. It's hard for a new coach to work with Heckert on which young players have a chance in his system and which don't. So while bringing in a few mid level FA's MIGHT give you a chance to increase your win total from 6 to maybe 8 games, are you doing it at the cost of really evaluating what you already have? I believe you see them be much more agreesive in both the draft and free agency in this next off season. And I think that was the right way to go.

Did we really need to evaluate Gocong? Heckert himself said the year prior that Gocong fit better in a 3-4 and suddenly he is installed as a presumptive starter with nothing but UDFAs competing with him? The same could be said for Pashos, I guess. These guys are pretty close to known quantities.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Bronx Cheer

Did we really need to evaluate Gocong? Heckert himself said the year prior that Gocong fit better in a 3-4 and suddenly he is installed as a presumptive starter with nothing but UDFAs competing with him? The same could be said for Pashos, I guess. These guys are pretty close to known quantities.

Pashos we did, Gocong not so much.

but I think with the LBs it was an issue of figuring out who fit where. again, BW and I think you talk about getting Bernard more snaps on the d-line. maybe they had a thought of him as one of the LBers.

with the online, it's health that cost us, not abilitly. and yeah you can say you need to account for injuries, but how many real upgrades in FA were out there when you count that stienbach and pashos were supposed to be starters before their injuries. Steiny especially was a lock. so you think anything better than a mid level lineman was going to sign to back up steiny?

[Masters]

I think it was Gocong himself that said he was a better fit in the 3-4 than the 4-3. In either D he will struggle in pass coverage.

[Bronx Cheer]

No - definitely Heckert said that. He was defending acquiring a backup and prior draftee of his from his prior team (i.e., "Why is what you're doing now getting Eagle castoffs different from Mangini and his Jets?"), and his rationale was that Gocong would be better in the 3-4.

Here's the first hit from Google:

Tom Heckert Feels Chris Gocong Is A Better Fit In A 3-4 Scheme | Yardbarker.com (citing Philly Daily News for original quote)

Heckert's had like 5 years to watch Gocong live and still needs to sign no reasonable competition so he can evaluate him more?

In any event, our LBers are not very good at all, even with DQJ playing at his peak. All three are liabilities in coverage, with our SAM (!) being the best of bunch (i.e., the tallest pigmy). One is very solid in the running game (Fujita), one outright sucks (Gocong), and another is great so long as there is no blocker within 3 yards of him (DQJ) but turns into Dwayne Rudd the second a FB or G lays a mitt on him.

I see a shoot out on Sunday, with Reggie Bush torching us underneath much in the same way Philly did in the preseaon.

[Masters]

Guess he did say it. Just only recalled Gocong commenting how he felt he was a better fit for the 3-4 and always wanted to play in it.

DQJ is not much of a liability in coverage. He holds his own pretty well. Gocong is the worst followed by Fujita (at least so far this season).

DQJ certainly struggles when a G can get on him in the second level. in part because most G's are going to have 60 to 80lbs on Jackson to go with 3-5 inches in height on him. If he was as bad as you are making him out to be he'd have never led the league in tackles when healthy.