Well, At Least Grossi Agrees With Me...

[Shep]

From Ask Tony this morning:

"Hey, Mike: You make an excellent point. They have to draft a playmaker on defense. That's why I think Eric Berry is a better choice than Joe Haden. All things being equal -- no injury situations, no background check red flares, etc. -- I would consider trading up a notch or two to select Berry. I am in the distinct minority on this, but I just believe cornerbacks are overvalued in today's NFL. I mean, what has Champ Bailey done for Washington and Denver in his career? And I love Bailey as a player. But look at Polamalu, Ed Reed, Bob Sanders (when healthy), Darren Sharper. I say pick the safety. A true play-making safety impacts the running game and the passing game."

I wrote something eerily similar in an exchange with the honorable and formidable Alo. I think Grossi could have added the Oakland Uber CB, too. I think having an amazing cornerback is a bit like having an amazing left guard. A good one will do just fine, so why not draft one in round 2?

[Jax Dawg]

It too Pluto to convince you Hillis is a good pickup? I like Pluto's usually accurate perspective on Cleveland teams.

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Shep

From Ask Tony this morning:

"Hey, Mike: You make an excellent point. They have to draft a playmaker on defense. That's why I think Eric Berry is a better choice than Joe Haden. All things being equal -- no injury situations, no background check red flares, etc. -- I would consider trading up a notch or two to select Berry. I am in the distinct minority on this, but I just believe cornerbacks are overvalued in today's NFL. I mean, what has Champ Bailey done for Washington and Denver in his career? And I love Bailey as a player. But look at Polamalu, Ed Reed, Bob Sanders (when healthy), Darren Sharper. I say pick the safety. A true play-making safety impacts the running game and the passing game."

I wrote something eerily similar in an exchange with the honorable and formidable Alo. I think Grossi could have added the Oakland Uber CB, too. I think having an amazing cornerback is a bit like having an amazing left guard. A good one will do just fine, so why not draft one in round 2?

Very well could be why they are showing so much interest in Earl Thomas. Buffalo and Jax seem to be very interested in Clausen and a trade down isn't out of the question.

[Alo]

Later on in the same Q&A article, Grossi says he'd draft "safety, cornerback or cornerback, safety" with the Browns' top two picks.

So his semi-abstract "corners are overrated" argument doesn't lead him to agree with you, Shep. You'd criticize him for not getting you offensive playmakers.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Shep

From Ask Tony this morning:

"Hey, Mike: You make an excellent point. They have to draft a playmaker on defense. That's why I think Eric Berry is a better choice than Joe Haden. All things being equal -- no injury situations, no background check red flares, etc. -- I would consider trading up a notch or two to select Berry. I am in the distinct minority on this, but I just believe cornerbacks are overvalued in today's NFL. I mean, what has Champ Bailey done for Washington and Denver in his career? And I love Bailey as a player. But look at Polamalu, Ed Reed, Bob Sanders (when healthy),

You know what though? How often are those first 3 names injured (Polly, Reed, Sanders)? Did Indy make it to the Superbowl this year without Sanders?

Charles Woodson and Ty Law HAVE led their defenses to Superbowls. Come to think of it Deion was the Rent-A-Stud for SF's SB run and Dallas' SB runs right? Rod Woodson has been to how many Superbowls? He played both positions.

You tweak this arguement whatever way you need to do it. I thought Hanford Dixon and Frank Minnifield were awesome when we didn't necessarily have an elite pass rush in the late 80s. That said, Eric Turner was a dynamite addition when BB could put him on Ben Coates in a playoff game and shut him out. He also freight trained people. Another fond memory Sez brought up was Don Rodgers!

Relating this to Joe Haden vrs Eric Berry - either kid offers elite skills that will make a difference. That being the case, I'm not sold they will both be available when we pick so we should feel fortunate if we land one of them.
- Tom F

[Alo]

Great post, Tom.

According to both Mel Kiper and Daniel Jeremiah, four cornerbacks will go in the first round: Joe Haden, Kyle Wilson, Devin McCourty, and Kareem Jackson.

If both are available, I'd take Berry over Haden, but it's disappointing that none of those corners will be available at #38; the remaining CBs either are too slow or inconsistent to be left on a island, which is what Mangini & Ryan would like to do with their corners next year.

[damajuki]

I think I called Shep "indefatigable" once. It still applies. (Yes! Used it twice now!)

The cold, hard truth for us is that we need two starters in the defensive backfield from this draft. That's a tall order that must begin at 7, or in the case of a trade down, wherever we end up and still get Thomas.

To Alo's point, if the top 4 CBs all are projected to go in the first, then shep's argument goes out the window. There won't be a starter-quality CB at 38 but their might be a starter-quality safety there.

For me, it comes down to STARTERS, as always. The safest projected-starter is the one I want in the 1st.

[Shep]

Originally Posted by Alo

Later on in the same Q&A article, Grossi says he'd draft "safety, cornerback or cornerback, safety" with the Browns' top two picks.

So his semi-abstract "corners are overrated" argument doesn't lead him to agree with you, Shep. You'd criticize him for not getting you offensive playmakers.

He agrees with me on corners at #7. I just don't see the impact on the bottom line. It's like having the best left guard of the last decade. Evs.

[Shep]

And seriously, on offensive playmakers? Planet Earth agrees the Browns are bereft and boring on that side of the ball. It's a non-discussion. We absolutely, positively suck on offense, especially passing the ball in a passing league. And we won't win until we're top half of the league at it, which is going to take a TON of work.

Some here just don't care and are cool with the losing. That's where the debate has to take place.

[DawgFan]

Originally Posted by Shep

And seriously, on offensive playmakers? Planet Earth agrees the Browns are bereft and boring on that side of the ball. It's a non-discussion. We absolutely, positively suck on offense, especially passing the ball in a passing league. And we won't win until we're top half of the league at it, which is going to take a TON of work.

Some here just don't care and are cool with the losing. That's where the debate has to take place.

OK Shep, answer me this. Did DA and BQ suck last year?

Possible answers:
Yes! - Then you have no idea how good or bad our WR's are.
No! - Then you are telling me Holmgren screwed up and it was the WR's fault.
Maybe. - Again, you have no idea how good or bad our WR's are.

Basically, if you agree with most (and yourself...and Holmgren) that our QB situation last year was untenable, then you have to agree that the production of our WR's was limited by that suckitude.

Therefore, your desire for a WR is somewhat clouded by the uncertainty of the level of competence we may...or may not...have at the position.

just sayin....

[PB&J]

Since when is Grossi agreeing with your position considered a good thing?

[Shep]

Dawg, I don't think that's invalid at all. But you can watch film on positions in isolation and see, for instance, that Robiskie can't get open and Massoquoi couldn't run the correct route. We ranked WAY to high in dropped passes for as few as we threw. I think we were #1 in drops per attempt (it was weeks ago we covered it and my memory only goes back 18 hours).

Our quarterbacks were dreadful... but so were our WRs. That's how much work we need to do.

And if I were looking for a QB who would make my WRs look better... Jake Delhomme would be the last place I'd look.

Originally Posted by DawgFan

OK Shep, answer me this. Did DA and BQ suck last year?

Possible answers:
Yes! - Then you have no idea how good or bad our WR's are.
No! - Then you are telling me Holmgren screwed up and it was the WR's fault.
Maybe. - Again, you have no idea how good or bad our WR's are.

Basically, if you agree with most (and yourself...and Holmgren) that our QB situation last year was untenable, then you have to agree that the production of our WR's was limited by that suckitude.

Therefore, your desire for a WR is somewhat clouded by the uncertainty of the level of competence we may...or may not...have at the position.

just sayin....