These 12 QBs: Drivers or Passengers?

[Flugel]

I got to thinking while we have a QB under 13 starts old at the game management phase of his career - HOW MANY teams are actually winning because of a young QB:

1) Colt McCoy - He's still in driver's education with his 2nd instructor already. When the defense had us in position to beat Miami or they mainted a similar position to beat Miami - our young QB led us on drives that reached the end zone on the ground and through the air. HOWEVER, when the defense got rathoused vrs TN - he wasn't going to outsling the QB supported by the NFL's #1 ranked defense. Right now, he's a passenger with part time driving priviledges.

2) Sam Bradford - Our friend Shep was kind enough to remind us that St Louis knew exactly what they were doing all offseason with drafting 3 WRs and going after a very popular FA Mike Sims-Walker. So what's the problem there? Did last year's Rookie of the Year wake up a bad football player? OR, is there something to the continuity thing, chemistry, and experience in the same passign game I've been speaking of? This is where the premature "eyeball test" says cut Troy Aikmen's ass for Steve Walsh or Joe Walsh for that matter. I think Ryan and Flacco had sophomore slumps too to remind us how TOUGH this position can be in the first 32 starts. Bradford is looking more like a helpless passenger this year. I can't think of a more equivalent QB to McCoy than this guy on playbook #2 already. Don't give up on him too early.

3) Mark Sanchez - He's not smiling and saying cheese for the NY media these days. He was terrified last Sunday Night vrs Baltimore. In fact, he gave up more TDs than the Jets Defense. Does that sound like a team destined to win BECAUSE of the QB? Should I pretend any of the following first round draft picks suck: Santonio Holmes, Plex Burress or Dustin Keller? I think their LT D'Brick Ferguson was a very high draft pick that has graded out extremely. I've already been told ALL teams have injuries so we're not gonna go there for a prospect drafted in round 1. Reality? The Jets rarely EVER win BECAUSE of their QB. Sanchez is just a passenger that NEEDS his defense to be great.

4) Matthew Stafford - Look at the stats and total points. This isn't exactly immediate success though because he's visited the hospital more often than Mel Gibson's girlfriends. Right now - he's a driver.

5) Josh Freeman - Even though Tampa thrives on it's running game - this kid made a star out of former Syracuse Orangeman WR Mike Williams. Since there wasn't too much said about him pre-draft (outside of Solon raving about him) - he's never discussed. Pretty damn good QB flying under the radar and erasing deficits to win. He's a driver.

6) Jay Cutler - He's not exactly a spring chicken even though his hometown fans called him a chicken fair or not. It wasn't fair in my opinion just for the record. He's tough to the point of putting his health at risk when he doesn't have to on many occasions. That means he continues to hold onto the ball too long with indecision on any throughs requiring him to read a defense not to be confused with a planned 5-7 step drop to the deep post or deep pylon. Anyway, I don't ever see the Bears winning BECAUSE of their QB. Cutler game manages with the assistance of Mike Martz to bring the high INT volume down to 16. This year, Matt Forte has turned some swing passes into long TDs for him; but what WR there looks like a budding star due to Cutler? Nobody. He's a passenger.

7.) Matt Schaub - Not young at all. That said, he's a classic example of a great QB that couldn't ever win more than half his starts driving a defense not nearly as stingy as Miss Daisey. If the defense can't keep it close enough to win, you're QB can't drive you to victory. Houston totally committed to upgrading the defense this year and Schaub is winning most/all of his starts. He's a driver.

8. Cam Newton - Love his deep ball and notice most of his best passes are timing routes where there's LESS reading and more timing off the drop back plant and fire to area long or short. That said, you can ONLY stay so basic for so long before the opponent is outscoring you. THEN, you're going to have to put together a game winning drive instead of a pic 6 when it's necessary. I'm not gonna celebrate 400 yards passing in a loss any more than I celebrate any of our losses. If he had the surrounding support group Ben Rape'n had as a rookie - his opponents would usually have 10 points or less while his defense scored frequently throughout the year. Because he is only 4 starts old, he's a passenger right now.

9. Travaris Jackson - This one has Sleepless in Seattle written all over it without the pretty face of Meg Ryan prior to plastic surgery. The good news is he is driving that franchise straight to 1st round QB. If Pete Carroll stays there, he might not GET the difference between Andrew Luck and the Matt Barkley who dyes his hair blonde. Stay tuned... At least Jackson is doing a better job of knowing Sidney Rice is his teammate these days even though it took a different city to understand this. Anyway, Jackson remains a passenger on game day.

10. Andy Dalton - Ironically, we overcame a 2nd quarter deficit to take the lead when he was still in the game. When Bruce Gradkowski came in to throw a pass to AJ Green while oiur defense was still in the huddle waiting for Jauron's play - Dalton ends up getting credit for getting a W someone else had to go get for him. Our defense did NOT protect the lead any better than the 2 orphans playing RT for us protected our QB against former Gator All American Carlos Dunlap in the face of our right handed QB. He's 2-2 with a defense that kept us to 16 points, SF to 13 points, and Buffalo's high scoring offense to about 20 points inclusive of OT. When he had a higher scoring shootout with Denver - he couldn't keep up with Kyle Orton. I LIKE this young QB alot; but he's a passenger right now.

11. Chad Henne - Looked all world against our defense EXCEPT for when it was time to score TDs. Going all the way back to the OSU-Michigan rivalry - this kid has never let me down. Is he Kyle Boller's long lost twin? Lucky for him, one of Miami's most active owners is a Michigan alum. He was a passenger on the gridiron before he became a passenger of an ambulance ride.

12. Ryan Fitzpatrick - the VERY first time this kid appeared he overcame a huge 4th quarter deficit for the St Louis Rams a few years ago. Then he faded into looking like he needed more experience and reps. BUT, the foreshadow of promise was there for anyone willing to accept. Today, not young as a QB; but he's yougn as an established starter. He is definitely a driver that helped his team overcome huge 2nd half deficits in back to back week vrs Oakland and NE. Remember when Miami used to have the "No Name Defense"??? Fitzpatrick is working with the "No Name Offense" and doing it rather imrpessively. He's a driver but it ain't overnight by any means.

All in all, I think we see that young QBs are game managers where premature "eye ball" tests can be very false positive or false negative. It's easier to win when they go to teams with great defenses, established offensive playbooks and personnel groupings. Thanks for reading if you made it this far!

[hiwaygal]

Major MAJOR kudos for the mention of one of my absolute favorites - Joe Walsh.

Good post and good points, Tom. I think you've really captured the nuances of what we are seeing this year for some "up and coming" QB's. For a lot of them, it's still too early to know what history will say about them.

[TheJustPull]

They were doing something with the power rankings the other day on 92.3, it was ahead or behind. I was surprised to see how many of the Qb's Colt was ahead of. Just have patience folks, we've got alot left tot see from our young Colt!

[YtownBacker]

Great job. I'd take Schaub out. He's a pretty solid veteran after sitting a few years behind Vick in a role about the same as Brees did in SD and Rogers did in GB. Should probably throw in Gabbert. The real passengers are Locker, Ponder and Kaepernick who are taking the route McCoy was intended to take. Are Clausen and Tebow even passengers or are they out their just hitchhiking

But, the real point I see is that it's a big transition from college to the NFL because most of these guys are going to teams that don't have all the pieces yet. Great post.

That said, the drivers seem to be on teams with very solid defenses.

[Enigmatic Evil]

Great writing there Flugs and I agree for the most part, mind you I think one could make the argument that Cam Newton is driving. He's played with great awareness and poise for a rookie who's fundamentals were knocked by a lot of draftniks entering in to and after the draft. Plus he's been getting great production from Steve Smith, a WR who many thought was "past his prime" entering the season. Unlike our fabled Colt McCoy, Cam Newton is making plays for his offense. Yes mistakes he's made have perhaps cost his team games but I think Cam Newton is a driver for the Carolina offense, that D isn't carrying the team.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by hiwaygal

Major MAJOR kudos for the mention of one of my absolute favorites - Joe Walsh.

Good post and good points, Tom. I think you've really captured the nuances of what we are seeing this year for some "up and coming" QB's. For a lot of them, it's still too early to know what history will say about them.

Thanks Hiway! Football is all about timing. It really is. Aaron Rodgers didn't get start #1 until his FOURTH NFL season and it didn't end in playoffs. Season #5 did but then Mike McCarthy's new goal was get the ball out of his 6th year QB's hands quicker in 2010. Telling us? Aaron Rodgers STILL needed to learn somethign as late as season #6. Speaking of season #6, the first time ANYONE is calling Ryan Fitzpatrick an ideal starter is season #6. It's wonderful it all happened for the guy; but we can't lie and say it was immediate though. Should we call Tom Brady a bum for wearing blue jeans to his first 16 NFL games?

This is common sense. Bradford and McCoy face the same challenges. McCoy just plays in a tougher division. Truth be told, I wanted Julio Jones before the combines. That said, I refused to call crabgrass at WR greener grass in the free agent market. I DO like Greg Little; but he wasn't 1 full year into a position change from RB to WR bfore he was suspended for 1 year. He's gonna require a learning curve like it or not. I like him though. And MoMass? He had a big circus catch at the 2 yard line vrs Indy to set up a score and caught the game winner vrs Miami. We're 2-2, which is our best start in ages considering all the changes and doom and gloom. I expect us to improve but I've certainly been wrong before.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by Flugel

2) Sam Bradford - Our friend Shep was kind enough to remind us that St Louis knew exactly what they were doing all offseason with drafting 3 WRs and going after a very popular FA Mike Sims-Walker. So what's the problem there? Did last year's Rookie of the Year wake up a bad football player? OR, is there something to the continuity thing, chemistry, and experience in the same passign game I've been speaking of? This is where the premature "eyeball test" says cut Troy Aikmen's ass for Steve Walsh or Joe Walsh for that matter. I think Ryan and Flacco had sophomore slumps too to remind us how TOUGH this position can be in the first 32 starts. Bradford is looking more like a helpless passenger this year. I can't think of a more equivalent QB to McCoy than this guy on playbook #2 already. Don't give up on him too early.

It's the O.C., bottomline. But he's a great OC, right? Well kinda. He's great at calling plays for Tom Brady throwing to the only WR in history allowed to shove DB's to the ground pushing off and never get a flag Randy Moss. Sam Bradford isn't yet Tom Brady level and Sims-Walker isn't Randy Moss but don't tell McDaniels that. When he mixes up the playcalling? Bradford looks like last seasons Bradford. When he forgets where he is and starts calling Amendola by the name Wes and starts calling Sims-Walker Randy? Bradford struggles.

Originally Posted by Flugel

4) Matthew Stafford - Look at the stats and total points. This isn't exactly immediate success though because he's visited the hospital more often than Mel Gibson's girlfriends. Right now - he's a driver.

Suh would disagree with you on just whom is driving the Detroit Express.

Originally Posted by Flugel

8. Cam Newton - Love his deep ball and notice most of his best passes are timing routes where there's LESS reading and more timing off the drop back plant and fire to area long or short. That said, you can ONLY stay so basic for so long before the opponent is outscoring you. THEN, you're going to have to put together a game winning drive instead of a pic 6 when it's necessary. I'm not gonna celebrate 400 yards passing in a loss any more than I celebrate any of our losses. If he had the surrounding support group Ben Rape'n had as a rookie - his opponents would usually have 10 points or less while his defense scored frequently throughout the year. Because he is only 4 starts old, he's a passenger right now.

This kid is the best i've ever seen in over two decades of watching the NFL... At costing his team games and throwing picks. He's a passenger right now and always will be. The GOOD news for him is he has about a 9-10 year window ala Mikey DogKillah to turn into an NFL caliber QB before the media hype machine begrudgingly admits he just isn't that good.

Originally Posted by Flugel

10. Andy Dalton - Ironically, we overcame a 2nd quarter deficit to take the lead when he was still in the game. When Bruce Gradkowski came in to throw a pass to AJ Green while oiur defense was still in the huddle waiting for Jauron's play - Dalton ends up getting credit for getting a W someone else had to go get for him. Our defense did NOT protect the lead any better than the 2 orphans playing RT for us protected our QB against former Gator All American Carlos Dunlap in the face of our right handed QB. He's 2-2 with a defense that kept us to 16 points, SF to 13 points, and Buffalo's high scoring offense to about 20 points inclusive of OT. When he had a higher scoring shootout with Denver - he couldn't keep up with Kyle Orton. I LIKE this young QB alot; but he's a passenger right now.

This one is funny. Earlier in the week I mentioned that QB's that have IT always have these moments where they show that they have IT. A moment where you sit back and say "hey, that kid has something there." Last week Andy Dalton had his first moment like that. Down what was it, 17 points heading into the 2nd half and a defense that was DARING him to put it up deep. They didn't think he would, noone did. Yet after spending half time pumping his team up like Joel Osteen pumping up the flock at a revival he came out swinging and took on there dare. Over. And over. And grabbed success from the jaws of defeat. Sunday he stood 10 feet tall with lightening bolts shooting out of his ass and gave people that moment where you go "yeah, he's really got something there. "

4 Games into his career. With two rookie WR's, a 2nd year TE and in a new system. 4 games. Just saying. Anyways he followed it up with his second moment, when asked about it on the radio he stated something to the effect of "I had no doubt we would come back and win with this defense. They're just too good to lose that game."

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil

Great writing there Flugs and I agree for the most part, mind you I think one could make the argument that Cam Newton is driving. He's played with great awareness and poise for a rookie who's fundamentals were knocked by a lot of draftniks entering in to and after the draft. Plus he's been getting great production from Steve Smith, a WR who many thought was "past his prime" entering the season. Unlike our fabled Colt McCoy, Cam Newton is making plays for his offense. Yes mistakes he's made have perhaps cost his team games but I think Cam Newton is a driver for the Carolina offense, that D isn't carrying the team.

Thanks EE; but McCoy drove us the length of the field for the go ahead TD pass he threw to MoMass vrs Miami at the end. 1 error in that clutch drive and we lose. As for Cam Newton, my point was his coaching staff keeps him passing to timing patterns to areas like the post or pylon/flag like the deep passes you him connecting on with Steve Smith. He's not being asked to read; AND react with precision. When it was his turn to go with a close game - he got pic 6'd for a TD because he locked onto his target and the defense baited him.

I still don't understand why some people seem to want McCoy to tank. Understanding HOW IMPORTANT QB is do we really want to start all over with a rookie QB especially knowing it won't be Luck? BTW, we don't know Landry Jones is better than Jason White or his current offensive coach at Oklahoma that played for the National Championship Sooner team. St Louis has the cream of the crop at QB from 2010 (another Sooner - Bradford); and he's not having ANY fun in season #2 at an environment strikingly similar to our's. We've auditioned seemingly 50 QBs since 1999 and maybe the one we have right now can be a Ryan Fitzpatrick in a better environment that 2 first round draft picks in 2012 just might offer.

Nobody is saying Colt is terrific; BUT a decision was made to bring him here so we don't want to give a Drew Brees conclusion San Diego made in taking a QB with their first round pick heading into Drew's 3rd season. Brees wasn't getting any love anywhere at the time or picking a QB first wouldn't have been so compelling. We have to understand this is a process that doesn't change simply because Cleveland fans long for winning now. That's why I always remind people that no drafting in 1996, 1997 and 1998 followed by crappy drafting from 1999-2008 means this is 1 franchise that goes bellyup with injuries. We can't pretend everyone else has been through this; because they haven't.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by King of Kings

Suh would disagree with you on just whom is driving the Detroit Express.
"

Believe it or not, I don't think he would. Suh played last year without Stafford and they went 6-10. This year, he's witnessed some HUGE comebacks BECAUSE of Stafford; and they won 4 games in 4 tries. I think he's making the difference other Detroit QBs couldn't in 2010. Stafford is projecting 44 TD passes with or without a man named Suh.

I'm not sure I understood your point about Newton. Had I seen him drive his team to the winning score when it was asked of him - I would have said he was a driver at this point in time. Your second sentence led me to think you were being sarcastic.

Dude, that Charles Manson avatar is one of the funniest things I've seen. Thanks!

[Brown Warrior]

Good stuff, Thomas. I mostly agree.

I think Cam's a driver, he's just a teenager after a few beers right now. He's the catalyst and he's making huge plays... and huge blunders.

Bradford is a terrific passer... but a couple things happened that don't make a lot of sense to me: First, they brought in McDaniels who wants to go downfield a lot... but then they brought in slower WRs (Pettis, Salas, Sims-Walker) and let go of the fast ones (Avery, Robinson). It's just bad math. It's a bit like our offense last year, really.

Stafford is pretty special to my eye. He's got a little Rodgers in him: Insanely smart with an absolute cannon and a quick release. So often seems big arms come with small brains, but not with these two.

Anyway... no sense in me rambling. Good post.

[Enigmatic Evil]

Well I wasn't trying to chastize Colt McCoy, I'd argue I am one of his biggest supporters here on the forum but I was also trying to give some credit to Cam Newton who I think has played some surprisingly good football. You ask anyone, and I would say that anyone who expected Newton to be producing at the level he has (even though Carolina's record wouldn't reflect that) would be bullshitting, plain and simple. He's overachieved with a borderline mediocre offense (that rivals ours in regards to depth of talent, they have better RB, and Steve Smith, their line is possibly worse) so thats why I give Newton a little more credit. Stating he's in the drivers seat.

The playbook thing was a knock on him going into the draft as well, and it will come with time. Carolina knows what they have in Newton and they will expand his responsibilities as the season progresses. Either he'll pan out as KoK describes as a 'coulda-shoulda' kind of figure (like a Ryan Leaf or a JaMarcuss, though I don't think he'll end up in that club) or a QB that Panther's fans can be proud to have on their team. Right now, probably the latter already.

Originally Posted by Flugel

Thanks EE; but McCoy drove us the length of the field for the go ahead TD pass he threw to MoMass vrs Miami at the end. 1 error in that clutch drive and we lose. As for Cam Newton, my point was his coaching staff keeps him passing to timing patterns to areas like the post or pylon/flag like the deep passes you him connecting on with Steve Smith. He's not being asked to read; AND react with precision. When it was his turn to go with a close game - he got pic 6'd for a TD because he locked onto his target and the defense baited him.

I still don't understand why some people seem to want McCoy to tank. Understanding HOW IMPORTANT QB is do we really want to start all over with a rookie QB especially knowing it won't be Luck? BTW, we don't know Landry Jones is better than Jason White or his current offensive coach at Oklahoma that played for the National Championship Sooner team. St Louis has the cream of the crop at QB from 2010 (another Sooner - Bradford); and he's not having ANY fun in season #2 at an environment strikingly similar to our's. We've auditioned seemingly 50 QBs since 1999 and maybe the one we have right now can be a Ryan Fitzpatrick in a better environment that 2 first round draft picks in 2012 just might offer.

Nobody is saying Colt is terrific; BUT a decision was made to bring him here so we don't want to give a Drew Brees conclusion San Diego made in taking a QB with their first round pick heading into Drew's 3rd season. Brees wasn't getting any love anywhere at the time or picking a QB first wouldn't have been so compelling. We have to understand this is a process that doesn't change simply because Cleveland fans long for winning now. That's why I always remind people that no drafting in 1996, 1997 and 1998 followed by crappy drafting from 1999-2008 means this is 1 franchise that goes bellyup with injuries. We can't pretend everyone else has been through this; because they haven't.

[Brown Warrior]

Speaking of QBs... how big was Mike Vick's deal? That's starting to feel a little bit like an anchor, huh?