Ready for this spin?

[Brown Warrior]

Originally Posted by Greythan

No one here DOESN'T want a great QB. We're just not quite as fixated on it as you are Shep.

I'd highly recommend it, then!! If it wasn't clear before Manning went down, it's GLARING now: With him, two Super Bowls. Without him, we're actually better than that team. Put him on the Browns with a full camp, we're 12-4 this year.

There's just nothing close in all of team sports.

[Alo]

One of my biggest critiques of Phil Savage is that he convinced himself there were ready solutions to all personnel issues. For example, there really wasn't a great five-tech available in free agency, so he tricked himself into believing he could get one in Corey Williams. Bill Parcells, on the other hand, brought in a developing vet (Randy Starks) and a rookie (Kendall Langford) who'd eventually grow into that role. Apparently, patience is a virtue...or sumtin

And the same holds true for QB evaluation: folks rightly should be focused on the position, but the urge to find that guy leads to some way too rosy projections. It's why Kyle Boller became a first rounder and so many draftniks loved the Pickle.

[Brown Warrior]

If you bring up the Pickle one more time, my feelings will begin to get hurt.

[Sez.EJ]

Originally Posted by Bronx Cheer

If Barkley doesn't come out, then there won't even be any buzz about CLE selecting a QB, no? I think it is reasonable to expect that we will only go QB high in the 2012 draft if there is a tier 1 prospect available. Right now, it looks like there are only two of them, and we have no shot whatsoever at Luck (I'd be amazed if Indy wins more than 2 games). Thus,if Barkley stays in school, Colt will likely get a second shot at being the unquestioned starter for a full season if he can be merely mediocre from here on out. If Colt is below average or mediocre and Barkley is available? Then, at the very least, CLE will be mentioned in every draft article as a landing spot.

Bronx.. I think your right on the money here.. If we have Zero shot at Luck.. and Barkley stays in school.. and IF those are the only.. truly tier one gotta have them franchise changing kind of QB available in the draft... The Colt gets another year or we bring in someone from another team to compete.(free agent class sucks next year). it would make ZERO sense to draft a qb who's not that tier one guy to come in and compete... wasted pick IMO...

That being said.. I think Colt is going to make a solid starting QB in the NFL. but before I put my money in the middle of the table.. Let's see how the season goes. There are still at least 12 games left.

[Alo]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

If you bring up the Pickle one more time, my feelings will begin to get hurt.

It's really not about you -- more the draftniks who insisted that Clausen was better than Bradford, then turned around and said that Ron Rivera signed his own pink slip by drafting Cam Newton.

People rush to judgments on this stuff. And as always, much humility is in order.

[King of Kings]

What's Ron Rivera's record so far, anyways? 1-4 with 3 losses coming directly from sCam's fuck ups?

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Alo

It's really not about you -- more the draftniks who insisted that Clausen was better than Bradford, then turned around and said that Ron Rivera signed his own pink slip by drafting Cam Newton.

People rush to judgments on this stuff. And as always, much humility is in order.

Do you mean like feeling compelled to draft a QB #1 overall in the draft because Drew Brees was prematurely stamped "not the franchise QB" to lead anyone to post seasons after his 2nd year? Sounds to me like we're seeing guys emerge as late as 28 years old a la Kurt Warner, a la Steve Young, a la Jeff Garcia, a la Warren Moon, a la Joe Theisman, a la Matt Hasselback, ala Mark Brunell, a la Matt Schaub, a la Ryan Fitzpatrick, etc. This isn't new science. Even a HOF QB (Elway) that didn't inherit Marvin Harrison, Marshall Faulk and a dry dome indoors as a young QB can start out like this:

Season Team	G	Comp	Att	Pct	Yds	Avg	TD	Int	Sck	SckY	Rate	Att	Yds	Avg	TD

1983

Denver Broncos

11

--

123

259

47.5

1,663

6.4

7

14

28

218

54.9

28

146

5.2

1

1984

Denver Broncos

15

--

214

380

56.3

2,598

6.8

18

15

24

158

76.8

56

237

4.2

1

1985

Denver Broncos

16

--

327

605

54.0

3,891

6.4

22

23

38

307

70.2

51

253

5.0

0

There's countless examples of good to great QBs with turbulent starts for countless different reasons. If you only have a fraction of the necessary variables in place to properly evaluate a QB, you can easily jump to the wrong conclusion too quickly. Tony Dungy said Elway only had 1 completion against his team in the rookie year while that Denver fanbase wasn't exactly patient.

The Drive came at the end of season #4. Aaron Rodgers didn't start game #1 until season #4 so that was alot of stress free learning under the belt with a WR Corps and playbook already intact from a continuity standpoint. All that said, Rodgers' first brush with playoffs was in his 5th season where it ended with him holding onto the ball too long as Arizona pryed the ball away for the game winning score. Not exactly slam dunking young talented QBs don't need offensive lines or that they don't get busted holding onto the ball longer than they should. Season #6 was where Mike McCarthy's #1 goal was to get the ball out of his QB's hands sooner. Masterful, but not exactly immediate from the day he was drafted. I know it gets pointed out Rodgers can handle losses to his oline this year but we quickly pretend he could not handle it his first 16 starts - which is here we are at today. Meanwhile Alex Smith got his Head Coach fired as late as season #6; and season #7 showcases a defense that held Cincy to 8 points and Tampa to 3 points (both are 3-2 teams) so that's a nice margin of error QBs in Cleveland haven't received in an eternity. When our defense treated McCoy to similar perks vrs Indy and Miami - McCoy was able to lead us to victory regardless of how pretty or consistent he was.

Nobody thinks McCoy looks wonderful yet. I stick up for him because I've seen some episodes of promise here and there that tell me what things can be like if we complete the surrounding environment; and have some degree of continuity with playbook and a set group of guys to get chemistry built/improved upon.

[Enigmatic Evil]

I think the lead irritant with Colt is that last season when he was thrown into the fire, he looked decent right away. He didn't have any games where his QB play really made you scratch your head. So far this season, he's only had glimpses of getting it together otherwise he's looked uncoordinated, unfocused, etc. You can pin that on Colt, you can pin that on the coaching. I hope the bye week has been utilized well because going into Oakland, I think Colt can have a good game.

There are those around here just waiting for Colt to have that rebound game... we've been waiting since Week 1

[Masters]

Originally Posted by King of Kings

What's Ron Rivera's record so far, anyways? 1-4 with 3 losses coming directly from sCam's fuck ups?

The flip side is that the only reason CAR has had a chance to win in all 5 of there games this season is Cam.

I am not seeing 3 losses coming directly from Cam's f'ups. CAR has lost all 4 of those games for numerous reasons (including their over all talent pool, espeically on D). He didn't let Forte go off for 205 yards on the ground. He didn't let Brees pass for 360 yards. The only game I look and can really go "Cam's mistakes cost his team" was the GB game. Even so, you are talking about a rookie QB. They are going to have f'ups. Heck vets have a tough time with that GB D.

I thought Cam would look like garbage in the NFL, but he's looked pretty impressive for a rookie. Espeically one with one year of starting at the big boy level of college football

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Alo

One of my biggest critiques of Phil Savage is that he convinced himself there were ready solutions to all personnel issues. For example, there really wasn't a great five-tech available in free agency, so he tricked himself into believing he could get one in Corey Williams. Bill Parcells, on the other hand, brought in a developing vet (Randy Starks) and a rookie (Kendall Langford) who'd eventually grow into that role. Apparently, patience is a virtue...or sumtin

And the same holds true for QB evaluation: folks rightly should be focused on the position, but the urge to find that guy leads to some way too rosy projections. It's why Kyle Boller became a first rounder and so many draftniks loved the Pickle.

Agreed, that guy, just isn't always available.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Alo

It's really not about you -- more the draftniks who insisted that Clausen was better than Bradford, then turned around and said that Ron Rivera signed his own pink slip by drafting Cam Newton.

People rush to judgments on this stuff. And as always, much humility is in order.

Just curious Alo, what would you give up for Luck?

[next2nothing]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

Just curious Alo, what would you give up for Luck?

I know this isn't aimed at me Golfer but I'd like to chime in on it if that's okay.

This is the way I look at it. IF we are in the #1 position in the draft next year (which I highly doubt will be the case) we pull the trigger on Luck absolutely. However, we have two #1's next year and we have other holes on this team that could be filled with round 1 talent. Just imagine if we hit on both our first round picks next year and grab two guys who can play here and play well for their careers.

Now about Luck, he looks like the real deal, BUT no one knows how this kid will do when he gets to the pros yet. He could be all world like Manning OR he could bust like Leaf just as easily. I'm not saying he is going to bust but my point is that you still don't know what you have in him when it comes to playing in the NFL. The Colts will most likely be drafting #1 next year, it's either them or the Dolphins. With the Manning era coming to a close and Miami having no answer at QB I don't think we could package a deal for Luck even if we wanted to. Colts owner Jim Irsay has already made it publicly known the Colts will take Luck if they are in position too, no way is this posturing. Irsay knows Manning's time is soon done and what better guy to replace him then one of the most talented QB's to come out of the NCAA in 10 years.

For us to grab Luck it would probably take the trading of our whole draft, like the Ricky Williams deal where Ditka shipped every pick to the Redskins for Williams. Williams was another "once in a lifetime" RB's and look how well that worked for New Orleans. They made the playoffs I think once when Williams was there and ended up trading him to Miami where he decided he wanted to smoke reefer all day instead of play football. Nothing is set in stone and while I do want an elite QB to play in Cleveland before I die, I'm of the mindset where you don't put all your eggs in one basket and hope you made the right decision.