I wasn't going to post this.

King of Kings · #49 (**permalink**) 10-21-2011

We need to hire Jim Mora Sr to field press questions.

next2nothing · #50 (**permalink**) 10-21-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by King of Kings

We need to hire Jim Mora Sr to field press questions.

"Playoffs!?"

damajuki · #51 (**permalink**) 10-23-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Tom, that's fine. Everybody gets an opinion. Mangini's approach to the QB position has been pretty battered in the national and local (NYC and Cleveland) media with great regularity. I happen to agree with them... but it's cool if you don't.

Really? That's the best you got? Agree to disagree on EM?

My biggest issue with your post: "local media" in NYC and CLE had no reason to NOT bash EM. In the case of the former, it's status quo and in the case of the latter it was about being considered "cool" by the NYC/ESPN power makers, like they were in middle school.

And now EM works with ESPN, so go figure. Guess if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!

Brown Warrior · #52 (**permalink**) 10-23-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by damajuki

Really? That's the best you got? Agree to disagree on EM?

My biggest issue with your post: "local media" in NYC and CLE had no reason to NOT bash EM. In the case of the former, it's status quo and in the case of the latter it was about being considered "cool" by the NYC/ESPN power makers, like they were in middle school.

And now EM works with ESPN, so go figure. Guess if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!

Uhhhh... what's your problem with what I said again? That I think EM has a hole in his game when it comes to QBs or Tom's right to disagree?

Flugel · #53 (**permalink**) 10-24-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Tom, that's fine. Everybody gets an opinion. Mangini's approach to the QB position has been pretty battered in the national and local (NYC and Cleveland) media with great regularity. I happen to agree with them... but it's cool if you don't.

I'm not stating opinion - I prefer the Joe Friday over Stephen King approach. Stephen King is a top seller of creativity and fiction while Joe Friday is a "just the facts" type. Different stokes for different folks. The Stephen King types complain about facts, statistics and debate evidence and I think we discovered such a reality in our young QBs to BAD NFL franchises discussion. Anyway, I'll present the facts you need to spin doctor again here:

In 2006, EM went 10-6 with a healthy Pennington as a rookie Head Coach.

In 2007, Pennington had an injury requiring surgery so they finally put in the backup and only won 4 games.

In 2008, EM brought in Brett Favre and they were 8-3 before Favre's arm injury. And when Favre played through the injury - they finsihed losing 4 of the last 5 games for a 9-7 record.

As I said in the last reply, any one of 4 NE assistants (Weis, RAC, McDaniels and EM) that headed off to Head Coaching jobs elsewhere clearly understood how important Brady was to their promotions elsewhere.

Mangini STARTED Brady Quinn over DA like you wanted him to do so what's with the hind sight 20/20 pretending you would have done it any other way? Unfortunately, Brady Quinn never grabbed the bull by the horns nearly as well as ANY of us wanted him to. There is ALSO a reality that DA was the starting QB of a 10 win team in 2007 so I'm 100% positive the hope was the starting QB wasn't going to be the lesser of 2 evils inherited by the new staff. We had HUGE Quinn fans attending training camp and reporting disappointment daily so I guess I could adopt the NY media mentality that he was putting vaseline on all of Quinn's footballs. Anyway, as fate would have it - Brady Quinn was traded by Manigini for Hillis and a 6th round pick. Just a couple weeks ago in John Elway's organization, Brady Quinn was 3rd string while DA is 2nd or 3rd string somewhere else. Those are the inconvenient truths as we know them.

Brown Warrior · #54 (**permalink**) 10-24-2011

Tom, those facts don't actually change the opinion that Mangini doesn't "get" the quarterback position as being unique, unlike any other position. You just named his starting quarterbacks.

It was well known that Mangini never wanted Favre and believed Kellen Clemens was perfectly suitable as a starting NFL quarterback even though it was obvious to most that he wasn't (in the year Pennington was hurt). In Cleveland, he made a bit of a joke of the position and how a head coach handles it.

Hence, part of the consensus (or near consensus) review of Mangini is that he shouldn't be allowed to think about, look at, or talk about QBs on his next job. But that's true of a lot of defensive coaches, including Doughnuts or whatever his name was. Crennel.

"How Mangini handles QBs" isn't really a fact-based debate, Tom. You can't settle it by naming his quarterbacks and if you think he's great with QBs, there's no way I can change your mind by tossing off names or career stats either. There are conversations that are neither "fictional" NOR stats based.

And again... what happened to you to make you hate books and writing so much with all the "Shakespeare" and Stephen King references? You used to use the phrase "pencil neck" too. I've never thought of you as the anti-intellectual type but you do seem to have it out for writers, which might make me a little sensitive as a, uh... writer?

hiwaygal · #55 (**permalink**) 10-24-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flugel

I'm not stating opinion - I prefer the Joe Friday over Stephen King approach. Stephen King is a top seller of creativity and fiction while Joe Friday is a "just the facts" type. Different stokes for different folks. The Stephen King types complain about facts, statistics and debate evidence and I think we discovered such a reality in our young QBs to BAD NFL franchises discussion.

DA is 2nd or 3rd string somewhere else. Those are the inconvenient truths as we know them.

HEY hey hey now!!!! No dissin' on Stephen King! He is the master of "if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit" and he can tell a damn good story! One of my favorite modern writers!

Dan Brown does a good job of taking some facts and mixing them up to come up with something that can also tell a good story. But he tends to piss a lot of people off. That's funny if you aren't one of the pissed off ones. (I like his stories too!)

As for DA - he is currently 3rd string behind...guess who???? Jimmy "the Pickle" Clausen.