Lombardi: Browns are legendary in their predictablility

[DeadWombat]

NFL.com news: Week 9 lookahead: Good teams need to separate from bad ones

The only team remaining that is exclusively West Coast is the Browns, and they might want to expand their package to include a more diversified system. The Browns need more playmakers and a better quarterback, but more importantly they need to add to their offense.

Writing about the Browns offense leads me to a game I play every week at NFL Films. I sit in my office in Mt Laurel, N.J., put the Browns offense on my screen and call a friend who was a coach in the league, but is now in between successes. I tell my friend the personnel group, the formation, where the ball is located on the field and what hash mark and describe the motion -- if there is any -- and ask him to tell me the exact play that will be run. He is correct about 95 percent of the time. No lie. The Browns are so integrated into the West Coast system that their predictability is becoming legendary around the league.

I don't even know what to say to this one....

[Masters]

I know what to say to that one. Obviously the writer hasn't watched many teams install a WCO on a team that didn't previously run it (let along one where there were no OTAs or mini camps). You have to properly execute the basics before you diversefy from it. If you can't do the basics you can't branch off from it.

And by execute I don't necessarily mean have success in a stats column, but rather when you look at film you see guys doing what they were supposed to do

[golfer704u]

Oh come on Masters, this is not the first team to install a WCO rececntly. And Lombardi thinks that the Browns are unusual in this. Isn't one thing you complained about the previous OC was that you could predict the plays from watching the game? Well if a guy can do it from having things described to him over ther phone, isn't that even a little more predictable than the previous regime?

I don't care what you are installing, if you don't add your own wrinkles to a game plan, especially some opponent based schemes, then you are doing your team a disservice. This also goes to exactly what Riffer talked about in the offense thread. Shumur is calling plays based on the WCO regardless of down, distance, opponent or relative game situations.

And if these players can't be coached to properly execute the basics by week 8 of the season, even with no pre-season, doesn't that say something about the coaching too?

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

Oh come on Masters, this is not the first team to install a WCO rececntly. And Lombardi thinks that the Browns are unusual in this. Isn't one thing you complained about the previous OC was that you could predict the plays from watching the game? Well if a guy can do it from having things described to him over ther phone, isn't that even a little more predictable than the previous regime?

I don't care what you are installing, if you don't add your own wrinkles to a game plan, especially some opponent based schemes, then you are doing your team a disservice. This also goes to exactly what Riffer talked about in the offense thread. Shumur is calling plays based on the WCO regardless of down, distance, opponent or relative game situations.

And if these players can't be coached to properly execute the basics by week 8 of the season, even with no pre-season, doesn't that say something about the coaching too?

To us it says volumes, to those who have dug in on these clowns running this team having a solution to the suck? Not so much. The reality of the matter is we are the only team running pure WCO because a pure WCO is obsolete. The game has evolved. Except in the mind of Holmgren and apparently his nephew. To have success you HAVE TO mix it up. Unfortunately for Walrus this isn't 1980 and the rest of the NFL has caught up and moved beyond. There's over 10,000 snaps on film across the NFL on this shit we're trying to run and everyone around knows how to defend it and how it is ran.

As for this latest spin that "you have to install a pure WCO first before you can mix it up" give me a break. The 49'ers weren't running a WCO under Nolan nor Singletary. They haven't ran it in years. It's working because Jim Harbaugh is smart enough to mix what they CAN run and already KNOW how to run with WCO elements. Cincy hasn't ran the WCO since the 1970's over three decades. This is year one. Of course anyone who watched the NFL draft heard Jay Gruden speak on that and discuss how you have to taylor your offense to your strengths and just because you know one system it doesn't mean you can successfully run it. He also stated during that interview that if you have a QB inexperienced in this but with lots of experience with this over here the plays you give him are based off what he already knows how to do and CAN do over here, if your Oline is build more for running than passing and you have an RB that can pound it then you install alot of run options and work your playbook around that as part of the foundation.

Interesting and sad an AFL head coach turned offensive coordinator can figure that out but a supposed offensive guru and his handpicked nephew who was passed off as the best option in the world for a HC opening are scratching their heads and can't figure it out. A fucking AFL coach with a rookie QB, a rookie #1 WR and a #2 WR that had trouble learning the last playbook he was given is able to figure it out and make it work extremely effectively yet nobody in Berea can figure any of this shit out. Lovely and I guess just another day in Brownstown.

[Sez.EJ]

I can predict that Lombardi is going to come up with some nonsense about the browns 98% of the time.

[Vegasdogg]

Sounds bad. Do I care? No. I don't trust Lombardi as far as I can throw him. For 5 weeks in 2009 all I heard him say was "my sources tell me Mangini is gone." The closer we got the more adamant he was about the firing.

By the time the offseason arrived the firing was "imminent according to my sources."

Does this explain away the offense not scoring enough points in 2011? No. Do I think the offense is predictable and not living up to its WCO billing? Maybe. But we're not talking about P Rivers picking up the offense with the Chargers. This is an inexperienced offense that is learning difficult concepts.

Fuck Lombardi. He was an asshole then and he is an asshole today.

[Brown Warrior]

Can't resist dropping back in... must've missed my peeps, even the ones I seem to get into it with too much. And with the team becoming a soap opera this week, holy crap.

I think King makes some strong points, and I was a huge Holmgren backer, so I'm finding the gray in between, I think: We seem to be finding a plethora of excuses where other teams just find a way on offense. I've heard excuses for the coaches, for the QB, and for our apparently nutty lunchpail running back... who does seem to be cursed but isn't helping himself much.

Lombardi's right about a few things: We CLEARLY lack playmakers all over the offense, which makes it almost impossible to figure out if one or more (and I grudgingly include McCoy) would be good in an ideal situation. But none is exactly "elevating" the others. Little seems like what a lot of draftnicks thought, a very tough, physical possession receiver... but not a #1. Not a guy who gets separation when more than 20 yards of field are involved.

One problem with next year's draft: None of the top receivers (Blackmon, Alshon, even Floyd) are really burners. None get deep like A.J. Green or Julio Jones, although Floyd and Blackmon do make some plays downfield in the college game. I'm curious to see how the team deals with personnel management at the position with this particular draft. There's speed later, but would they want to wait for lesser known guys because they run legit 4.4s?

It feels to me like ALL the elements of our passing game are "off," and it looks like it on the field. We lack speed, we lack a big-time arm to threaten every blade of grass to keep safeties back, and we don't seem to be fooling anybody with our system or playcalling. Add in that we didn't make a big move at RT and then Steinbach got hurt? It's been a disaster.

I think in modern offenses the running back is more of a beneficiary of a good line, a defense that has to mind the deep ball, and playcalling. Jackie Battle is the latest example, but Ben Tate seemed just fine when Foster was out, The Law Firm is doing enough, and the Packers' UDFA seems to do enough to not let teams find a way to even slow down Aaron Rodgers. I don't think the Browns offensive woes are really because of Hillis' injuries; he didn't do all that much when he was healthy late last year or early this year anyway.

The Steelers are a cold weather AFC North team and they live and die with Roethlisberger now, as they did last year, too... and they're mostly living. He's an unusual guy, for sure, willing to take sacks while he waits for stuff to develop downfield, off hits, and heave it... so safeties have to respect that. He carried them to that win over the Patriots.

If we can add a fast WSLB and move Gocong to the SSLB, pick up a corner to start opposite Haden, and find a pass rusher at RDE (or to step in on passing downs for Mitchell) our defense feels close. Our offense is another matter entirely.

[Greythan]

Shep, good to see you back.

All I know is that I feel the same way that Lombardi does.

Remember, the only unpredictable play we KNOW was called last week was the Cribbs/McCoy improv that went 45 yards for a TD.

Things that make you go, hrm.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Can't resist dropping back in... must've missed my peeps, even the ones I seem to get into it with too much. And with the team becoming a soap opera this week, holy crap.

I think King makes some strong points, and I was a huge Holmgren backer, so I'm finding the gray in between, I think: We seem to be finding a plethora of excuses where other teams just find a way on offense. I've heard excuses for the coaches, for the QB, and for our apparently nutty lunchpail running back... who does seem to be cursed but isn't helping himself much.

Lombardi's right about a few things: We CLEARLY lack playmakers all over the offense, which makes it almost impossible to figure out if one or more (and I grudgingly include McCoy) would be good in an ideal situation. But none is exactly "elevating" the others. Little seems like what a lot of draftnicks thought, a very tough, physical possession receiver... but not a #1. Not a guy who gets separation when more than 20 yards of field are involved.

One problem with next year's draft: None of the top receivers (Blackmon, Alshon, even Floyd) are really burners. None get deep like A.J. Green or Julio Jones, although Floyd and Blackmon do make some plays downfield in the college game. I'm curious to see how the team deals with personnel management at the position with this particular draft. There's speed later, but would they want to wait for lesser known guys because they run legit 4.4s?

It feels to me like ALL the elements of our passing game are "off," and it looks like it on the field. We lack speed, we lack a big-time arm to threaten every blade of grass to keep safeties back, and we don't seem to be fooling anybody with our system or playcalling. Add in that we didn't make a big move at RT and then Steinbach got hurt? It's been a disaster.

I think in modern offenses the running back is more of a beneficiary of a good line, a defense that has to mind the deep ball, and playcalling. Jackie Battle is the latest example, but Ben Tate seemed just fine when Foster was out, The Law Firm is doing enough, and the Packers' UDFA seems to do enough to not let teams find a way to even slow down Aaron Rodgers. I don't think the Browns offensive woes are really because of Hillis' injuries; he didn't do all that much when he was healthy late last year or early this year anyway.

The Steelers are a cold weather AFC North team and they live and die with Roethlisberger now, as they did last year, too... and they're mostly living. He's an unusual guy, for sure, willing to take sacks while he waits for stuff to develop downfield, off hits, and heave it... so safeties have to respect that. He carried them to that win over the Patriots.

If we can add a fast WSLB and move Gocong to the SSLB, pick up a corner to start opposite Haden, and find a pass rusher at RDE (or to step in on passing downs for Mitchell) our defense feels close. Our offense is another matter entirely.

I knew you'd be back!

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

I warned you guys when we hired Holmgren that he runs an antiquated version of the WCO that the rest of the league caught up to a long time ago.

It's hideous.

Somebody in Berea has to be getting pissed off enough at the regression of this team that something's gonna give.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

Somebody in Berea has to be getting pissed off enough at the regression of this team that something's gonna give.

Preferably Randy Lerner.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

I warned you guys when we hired Holmgren that he runs an antiquated version of the WCO that the rest of the league caught up to a long time ago.

It's hideous.

Somebody in Berea has to be getting pissed off enough at the regression of this team that something's gonna give.

Hey wiseass, the WCO he runs is the same offense that the Packers, Saints and Eagles run. He is a cheat sheet for ya: THE WCO WON THE SUPER BOWL ----- LAST SEASON!! The rest of the league caught up? Really? Tell that to --- the rest of the league, especially Pittsburgh! Lame

Antiquated my ass.

Why don't you go workout for the Special Forces you said you want to join, because the fake ass shit you bring to the table here is not going to impress them.