"The Trade" Becomes a Book

[golfer704u]

I'm not going to go tit for tat for oyu on your picks. Ward was almost defensive rookie of the year. He's not having as good of a season. BUt He'll end up being considered a good pick. Taylor was back to form this week, he'll be considered a good pick. It's also too early to denounce Little. He was a project to begin with.

on any of the 2010 late rounders, it's too early to tell.

Your opinion is clouded by your overall dislike of Holmgren and Shumur and the way this year went. I just disagree.

[Brown Warrior]

King, I look at the last two drafts and while I may not see it quite as dark as you do... I know I don't see it as shiny as some others do. I just see "guys," no stars or gamechangers. Haden is very good but not yet great (Lloyd was abusing him for a while yesterday) but I like Little more than you do.

We kind of got a "second" DE (the LDE) and a "second" WR (burly possession guy). We got our "second" best DT. We got some youth with potential upside in Pinkston (best game yesterday) and Skrine. The other picks are a bit odd.

But they're all "guys," including McCoy. Aside from Haden, I don't see future Pro Bowlers or difference makers.

Frankly, when you put two amazing drafts back to back... you win games. We aren't winning games.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

King, I look at the last two drafts and while I may not see it quite as dark as you do... I know I don't see it as shiny as some others do. I just see "guys," no stars or gamechangers. Haden is very good but not yet great (Lloyd was abusing him for a while yesterday) but I like Little more than you do.

We kind of got a "second" DE (the LDE) and a "second" WR (burly possession guy). We got our "second" best DT. We got some youth with potential upside in Pinkston (best game yesterday) and Skrine. The other picks are a bit odd.

But they're all "guys," including McCoy. Aside from Haden, I don't see future Pro Bowlers or difference makers.

Frankly, when you put two amazing drafts back to back... you win games. We aren't winning games.

I actually wouldn't argue with your analysis too much. I think your slightly less shiny than I am. but not horribly so. And I think you get a draft this coming year that makes you even happier.

[Brown Warrior]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

I actually wouldn't argue with your analysis too much. I think your slightly less shiny than I am. but not horribly so. And I think you get a draft this coming year that makes you even happier.

Your lips to God's ears, brutha. Feels like I've been waiting a long time for some playmakers.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Your lips to God's ears, brutha. Feels like I've been waiting a long time for some playmakers.

well one thing I'd ask you. If you get what you want and we get better, please do't try to come on and make it sound like if only they had listened to you 3 years ago we would have been better then.

These other pieces still needed to be added at somepoint. They did it in an order you disagree with, that doesn't mean had they done it your way it would have worked better. You can't go back and re-write history based on what just happened.

[Brown Warrior]

Well, the QB situation of 2010 was rough, I'll admit. Not entirely sure what could've been done because it was a shit draft. I wouldn't have made the same choices (except for maybe Wallace) but in the end it was all about getting by for a year and taking a shot with McCoy.

I do think we could've done more at WR this past offseason. And Jurrell Casey is really good.

[jason j]

Originally Posted by King of Kings

3rd: Traded to KC to draft Phil Taylor. Now this pick IS a miss, 'cause Taylor is a 3-4 NT drafted to play DT in the 4-3 and not as a passrusing UT

I hate to be the guy who shows up after months and months and starts sniping from the cheap seats... but on what are you basing that statement?

I keep seeing people write that, yet no one has any evidence to support it. The guy has never played 2-gap. He's always been a penetrating tackle, usually at the 1, but occasionally at the 3 - since Baylor typically slid their tackles as opposed to swapping them.

It's just one of those things that bugs me... It's like everybody's saying it, so it must be true. I get the impression that it's solely based on his stature - 6'3" 350 lbs. That reads "nose tackle". But the reality is, the fact that Taylor is shaped like a nose tackle is the only factor that would have anyone believe that he was.

-jj

[Greythan]

I understand KoK's concern with Taylor based on where we drafted him.

Quite frankly, we've been pretty easy to run on between the tackles this year so Taylor hasn't done much to bolster our run defense from where I sit.

That said, his pressure on Bradford yesterday was awesome. I do love the notion of getting pressure in the QB's face. We all know what that does to great QB's let alone the not so great ones.

[golfer704u]

that's interesting Grey,

I more feel like outside the tackles is where our run D has been worst. would be interested to see the statistics on it.

[Greythan]

I guess my point is Golfer that I haven't seen ANY point on the line where we're stout against the run.

[Masters]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

that's interesting Grey,

I more feel like outside the tackles is where our run D has been worst. would be interested to see the statistics on it.

I am with you. I see more runs that go between the DE and DT (with usually a double going on the DT), or of tackle. Basically exposing the OLB and DEs. They are suppposed to funnel the runs back to the inside, but most times they allow it to get further outside.

[Bronx Cheer]

Originally Posted by jason j

I keep seeing people write that, yet no one has any evidence to support it. The guy has never played 2-gap. He's always been a penetrating tackle, usually at the 1, but occasionally at the 3 - since Baylor typically slid their tackles as opposed to swapping them.
-jj

I'll take a shot at answering as I wasn't so high on the Taylor pick.

Exhibit 1: his body type
Exhibit 2: his play (snap explosion, quicks, style, etc.)
Exhibit 3: when drafted, he described himself as a run stuffer
Exhibit 4: the coaching staff moved Rubin to undertackle even though Rubin was playing at a very high level as a NT, while they play Taylor at the 4-3 NT
Exhibit 5: Taylor regularly comes out on third down and obvious passing downs

How does that NOT add up to him being better suited to use as a 4-3 or 3-4 NT instead of a 4-3 UT?