Pat Shurmur has a pulse. #Browns

[hammertime]

the big picture is you kill as much of the clock as possible without turning over the ball and then kick a feild goal.

way tooo much drama over a team looking for an identity. How do you think Joe Thomas will look in an Indy uni????

[Masters]

Originally Posted by King of Kings

How about YOU give YOUR constantly defending Shurmur bullshit a rest, aye?

If I "constantly" defended him I would. But I don't constantly defend him. Especially not to your level of constant bitching about him, Holmgren, Heckert, the water boy, or whom ever else you pick as the flavor of the week to complain about.

[Masters]

Originally Posted by hammertime

the big picture is you kill as much of the clock as possible without turning over the ball and then kick a feild goal.

Exactly my point. What I or anyone else would do in that situation doesn't make what CLE chose to do wrong. The got everything they wanted leading up to the FG attempt. The FG attempt went horribly bad. I would sooner understand complains about how/why that went bad and getting on Shurmur for that ST lapse right there (and there have been far too many this year for CLE, and that's on Pat). Getting on them for killing all the clock they could for the shot a FG that puts them ahead is like getting on Cribbs for the fumble that allowed STL to take the lead to begin with.

[Greythan]

It was tentative, uninspired, and even head scratching coaching.

• The coach called for a hand off to Alex Smith. (The head scratcher)
• The defense was likely going to have to get a stop to win either way. Odds are pretty damn poor that an NFL team runs out of time before getting into FG range.
• The Rams had just successfully driven into FG range the week prior.
• Our special teams have been dicey all year. Multiple blocked FG's and some breakdowns on kick coverage.
• When factoring in the chances of us a) missing the FG b) them getting a good kick return, and c) their ability to get into FG range without a good return you're close to 50%. A coin flip.

It was tentative, uninspiring coaching.

I think the majority of teams looking at a first and 10 from the opponent's 19 yard line with, what, 5 minutes left down 1 are thinking "Let's take good care of the ball, try for a TD, and settle for a FG".

[Greythan]

At the end of the day my point is still CLE didn't lose because they didn't go throwing for a TD, which is how many are making it out to be. They lost because the LS chipped the G's leg with the snap

Simply not true Masters. And, you know it.

Shurmur's strategy had multiple dependencies. The converted FG was not the last one. There was still the small matter of getting a good kick coverage outcome. There was then the major consideration of our defense being able to hold St Louis outside FG range.

That's a lot of variables for the supposed "safe" strategy.

Yes, his approach could have worked. However, to characterize it as the safe or percentage play is unfounded. This doesn't even address the moronic decision to hand the ball off to Alex Smith which should have every fan really questioning what this Shurmur guy was doing/thinking.

[Riffer X]

This is absurd. How many other teams around the league would play for a FG with over two minutes left in the game to go up by 2 points? Come on, it was a friggen joke and everybody should know this.

Not one legit shot at trying to score and they had no chance to without trying a pass or a different run/pass option or even a QB draw or bootleg etc.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

This is absurd. How many other teams around the league would play for a FG with over two minutes left in the game to go up by 2 points? Come on, it was a friggen joke and everybody should know this.

Not one legit shot at trying to score and they had no chance to without trying a pass or a different run/pass option or even a QB draw or bootleg etc.

exactly, my call would be a bootleg with moore in the back corner of the edzone. Colt has three options. Throw to Moore if he's wide open, Run if he can get to the pylon, throw it to the guy in thw 20th row. I trust Colt to make the right decision in that moment.

[Brown Warrior]

Originally Posted by Masters

Exactly my point. What I or anyone else would do in that situation doesn't make what CLE chose to do wrong. The got everything they wanted leading up to the FG attempt. The FG attempt went horribly bad. I would sooner understand complains about how/why that went bad and getting on Shurmur for that ST lapse right there (and there have been far too many this year for CLE, and that's on Pat). Getting on them for killing all the clock they could for the shot a FG that puts them ahead is like getting on Cribbs for the fumble that allowed STL to take the lead to begin with.

Hand off to a TE aside, it's pretty conventional stuff. It's not "HUH?" stuff. Again, if the HC has confidence in his QB, he takes a shot at the end zone (and also confidence in his line, I guess)... but that's not the case right now.

But running the clock when you're in chip shot territory and your kicker is Phil Dawson isn't exactly leaving the reservation or anything.

[Masters]

Originally Posted by Greythan

It was tentative, uninspired, and even head scratching coaching.

• The coach called for a hand off to Alex Smith. (The head scratcher)

Completely agree. It was a dumb call. Your FB is out then use your RB. Actually even if your FB is in, use your RB.

Originally Posted by Greythan

• The defense was likely going to have to get a stop to win either way. Odds are pretty damn poor that an NFL team runs out of time before getting into FG range.

They aren't that poor and even your numbers still showed the is a 50~70% chance they do. Then you throw in what are the odds the kicker makes the kick depending on how close they actually get.

Originally Posted by Greythan

• The Rams had just successfully driven into FG range the week prior.

The started the drive after a punt, not a KO. And what happened? They had a 41 yarder blocked. That's also ARZ's pass D which is near the bottom of the league.

Originally Posted by Greythan

• Our special teams have been dicey all year. Multiple blocked FG's and some breakdowns on kick coverage.

They have and that falls on Shurmur. There is a coaching issue on STs this year no doubt.

Originally Posted by Greythan

• When factoring in the chances of us a) missing the FG b) them getting a good kick return, and c) their ability to get into FG range without a good return you're close to 50%. A coin flip.

It's less than 50% if they don't get a good return and your numbers showed that.

Originally Posted by Greythan

I think the majority of teams looking at a first and 10 from the opponent's 19 yard line with, what, 5 minutes left down 1 are thinking "Let's take good care of the ball, try for a TD, and settle for a FG".

I'd say yes and no. They are looking at take good care of the ball, kill as much time as possible, prefer to get a TD, and settle for a FG.

[Masters]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Hand off to a TE aside, it's pretty conventional stuff. It's not "HUH?" stuff. Again, if the HC has confidence in his QB, he takes a shot at the end zone (and also confidence in his line, I guess)... but that's not the case right now.

But running the clock when you're in chip shot territory and your kicker is Phil Dawson isn't exactly leaving the reservation or anything.

Agree. I don't the the furor over this. It's not what cost CLE the game. This isn't Smith down in ATL going for it on 4th and 1 on his own 29 in OT.

I see people talking about what other team does that, so now I am going to have to go look it up. Pretty sure I am going to find many cases of well respected successful HCs doing the exact same thing.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by hammertime

How do you think Joe Thomas will look in an Indy uni????

Peyton gets what Peyton wants.

Have you met JT's replacement yet?



Good luck Andrew Luck!

[Greythan]

i'd say yes and no. They are looking at take good care of the ball, kill as much time as possible, prefer to get a TD, and settle for a FG

This.

Which we didn't do. That's where I don't get why you're defending the play calling. We didn't call one play that had a "prefer to get a TD" label on it after we got the first down at their 19 yard line.

No one would be outraged if the playcalling actually had followed what you typed. However, it didn't. There was nothing close to an attempt to score a TD. That's the issue.