Vincent Jackson

[Riffer X]

Originally Posted by mz.

Of course Mangie will tell you that he is "high" on Robo and Veikune...he drafted them. I haven't heard peep out if Heckert. I liked none of the three picks at the time, and I'm going to have to see something to change my mind, not the other way around. I'm not "done" on them, but I'm treading lightly.

Heckert said it but no way do I have a link right now. Actually, Heckert is pleased with the talent compared to what he thought we had. Yes, Mangie drafted them but he also put Robo through the rookie ringer and I still say he did it to prove a point to the rest of the team. Coaches boy, local product, all that meant nothing boy you better play specials when we tell you.

Veikune showed some game in preseason but I think he is a bit Hawaiian stupid when it comes to picking up multiple positions. Keep in mind Pitt made a living off these types of guys that took a few years to develop that instinct that's needed to play pro schemes.

[Riffer X]

Originally Posted by Rich4eagle

I understand that he is three times better than Teddy Fatgame er useless. i also understamd that he has talent and is 31. I also understand that he is 50 pounds overweight and gets gassed in two downs. I also understand that he faiied as a run stopper. I also understand he is now too slow to play DE. I also understand the Browns are working for more than next year now. I also understand that his value is now higher than it will ever be and he will never lead us to a championship.

So what is wrong for getting what we can now???????????????

I'm all for building for the future Rich, you know that. But you are not always the guy who wants to just jettison guys for some pick that turns out to be Darnell Sanders or Antonio Perkins either. The team still needs to compete and he can help a ton if used correctly. We have some young and exciting backers on this team that can use a guy like Rogers reeking havoc, and he can still do it. Just out of curiosity, who do you think the fastest lineman on the team is? This is a 3/4, not a 4/3 base with smallish DE's. He needs a staff to utilize him correctly. At DE he wouldn't get winded as much cuz he's not taking on 3 guys and pursuing sideline to sideline. I think the staff has put it out there to him what they expect this year, and that is more consistency across the board. You would have to get at least a 2nd for him IMO and nothing less.

[Sez.EJ]

I don't think he's tradeable because he is rehabbing an injury. Let's just hope he is healthy enough come fall to play to his prior level..but We are not trading him unless his rehab is over and he can pass a physical.. otherwise talking about trading him is a waste of time...

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by mz.

Of course Mangie will tell you that he is "high" on Robo and Veikune...he drafted them. I haven't heard peep out if Heckert.

This was shared by DawgFan on the first page of this thread regarding what Heckert thinks at least in regards to the 2 WRs drafted in round 2:

Heckert: We like Massaquoi and Robiskie; those guys can be good enough that we don’t need to add a veteran WR

“Massaquoi played well last year,” Heckert said. “Robiskie is a good player, too. We really liked him in Philly. Hopefully those guys can keep coming on.”

- Tom F.

[Solon16]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

I'm beginning to think Solon and I are the only two on this board that get what Rogers can bring to the table. The guy is a flat out stud and one of the best players in the league, hardly anybody can do what he can do. He has been slightly miscast in this 3/4 system, he really is made as a a one gap 4/3 tackle. However, the staff is upset with him leaving his gaps last year and creating voids, but it is up to them to figure out how to use him. Rich, you make him out to be another Teddy Fatgame or Jason Fisk, which is far from the truth. Rogers can do things few in the league can, so it is up to the staff to figure it out. He should be playing end where he can penetrate a lot more and not have to worry so much about gap integrity. I've been saying this for awhile now, and in all actuality I would have Rogers match up against the opponents weakest tackle and guard combo game in and game out. One of the reasons the guy doesn't play every down is because at nose tackle he is taking on 2 and 3 guys and still getting penetration. You will see him running outside the tackles or in the pocket over and over, and this is very draining on anybody. He is not a Bob Golic style NT, this guy is way more than a plugger.

I have to believe that barring a good value trade and not giving him away, this staff has serious plans for him this year. He is the best weapon we have defensively by a mile and for you guys to just want to ship him off for more picks doesn't make any sense. He is right there with Cribbs and Thomas as the team's best players, hands down. He is still in his prime and can be a mainstay in this defensive turnaround. I also hear "we got Rubin" all the time, but Rubin is what he is and that is a piece of the puzzle of line depth, so it's not like he is going to fill Rogers' void all by himself. Too many people on this board act like pro Dlineman all play every down, especially the interior guys. This is far from the truth, and actually Belichick was probably one of the first guys to really go after the alternating lineman in the league. He believed you need a good 7 man rotation, and now most of the league follows suit. Please don't anybody dare tell me Rogers is not fast or athletic enough to play DE consistently, cuz he is a sick athlete. After watching Turtle Corey Williams try to play end it would be a treat seeing Rogers blow up opposing tackles. He would be our top pass rusher and create all kinds of opportunities for our young backers coming on. It's a no brainer to me, but I'm not saying I'm completely against trading him either. I just think some of you guys (not just da ich) too easily dismiss Rogers cuz you're in love with picks at all times. The chances of getting someone with a second or third that can even come close to what Rogers brings is minuscule to say the least.

A draft pick is not always the best solution guys, it just isn't.

Agreed, He is our best defensive player and outside Jt our best player. 30 year old NT IS in his prime. PERIOD/Exclamation point

[Solon16]

Originally Posted by Rich4eagle

I understand that he is three times better than Teddy Fatgame er useless. i also understamd that he has talent and is 31. I also understand that he is 50 pounds overweight and gets gassed in two downs. I also understand that he faiied as a run stopper. I also understand he is now too slow to play DE. I also understand the Browns are working for more than next year now. I also understand that his value is now higher than it will ever be and he will never lead us to a championship.

So what is wrong for getting what we can now???????????????

I understand he is #1 in QB pressure and sacks from aNT!

[Sez.EJ]

I also like Rogers a lot. I understand getting something (draft pick).. It had better at least be a 2nd or it's not worth trading him.. I also see his value right here in Cleveland.. I am not yet sold on Ruben.. so let's see how he progresses.. Our defense is horrible and cannot afford to LOSE talent.. we need to keep what we have and add to it.. Yeah.. Rogers may not be here long enough to see us become a contender.. that does not mean you just bag the the guy though.. every team needs some veterans. especially ones who can make plays. Rogers is one of the top DT's in the game.. how many other positions can we say that about.. I can think of 1.. Left tackle and that's it... Joe Thomas.. ok , and Cribbs who is a special teams guy.. I don't see us trading him for a pick.. I think Holmgren knows a player when he see's one.. He even said that he likes Rogers in an interview. He is one of the few Browns players that Holmgren has met with.. That probably means Holmgren sees him as a leader. and called him out to BE a leader. Holmgren likes and needs leaders that's why he brought in Delhomme.. to bring veteran presence to our young offense.