QB question for you guys

[damajuki]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

I'd rather have McCoy than Newton. Hands down. In three years Newton will be about the same position as Vince Young is now.

Dalton's a little closer call. So McCoy is passing to Little a rookie right? Who's dropping everything thrown his way. while Dalton is throwing to Green. then BEST WR by a mile in last years draft. I'd probably take Dalton right now, but I don't see his cieling as all that much higher than McCoys.

Except that Newton is pretty accurate for a rookie and doesn't appear to be a head case.

Agreed Dalton has MUCH more talent around him. But he looks the part and is making the plays.

Again, just consider how McCoy would look in Cincy. Better, right? Now flip it: how would Dalton do here, right now? Still better than McCoy, IMO.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by damajuki

Except that Newton is pretty accurate for a rookie and doesn't appear to be a head case.

Agreed Dalton has MUCH more talent around him. But he looks the part and is making the plays.

Again, just consider how McCoy would look in Cincy. Better, right? Now flip it: how would Dalton do here, right now? Still better than McCoy, IMO.

Vince Young was raved about as a rookie. Philly just wasted 100M on Vick. Devner's fans are trying to make Tebow into a QB too so this isn't a race thing. QBs that run as mcuh as the above do, will not last in the NFL. And that includes Newton.

If you flipped McCoy and Dalton. I say Cinci has one less win, and Cleveland has one more. That's not a huge difference IMO. But I believe Daltons ceiling is slightly higher yes. But I believe McCoys ceiling is high enough to win a Super Bowl in Cleveland.

[damajuki]

Originally Posted by jnuh

Cam is def better then Colt. I have no clue what you guys are thinking here. He is better right now and has a much higher ceiling to hit. Colt has the physical attributes to POTENTIALLY be an elite QB. Colt to me has the potential to at best with the right parts around be a Matt Schaub/Matt Hasselbeck type. This is way off topic though ... and that debate is turning my thread into the pissing contest I didn't want.

I just wanted to know what you guys thought of colt

Agree on this whole post. Colt's ceiling is not near Cam's ceiling. Is there really a question about that?

I've answered, but here it is again: Colt is a project, likely a long-term backup, at best a guy who needs near-perfect support to be at this best.

Just like all the other QBs we've had in the last 5 years (10 years, 20 years, etc.).

[hiwaygal]

Originally Posted by OzDawg

would you guys consider montana a game manager or? and what would you back up your opinion with?
ps hiway yer included

LOL!

In my opinion, any QB who finds himself leading a team in championship games in multiple years, and years in a row is definitely a game manager.

[OzDawg]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

Vince Young was raved about as a rookie. Philly just wasted 100M on Vick. Devner's fans are trying to make Tebow into a QB too so this isn't a race thing. QBs that run as mcuh as the above do, will not last in the NFL. And that includes Newton.

If you flipped McCoy and Dalton. I say Cinci has one less win, and Cleveland has one more. That's not a huge difference IMO. But I believe Daltons ceiling is slightly higher yes. But I believe McCoys ceiling is high enough to win a Super Bowl in Cleveland.

if they get him a supporting cast I agree

[damajuki]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

Vince Young was raved about as a rookie. Philly just wasted 100M on Vick. Devner's fans are trying to make Tebow into a QB too so this isn't a race thing. QBs that run as mcuh as the above do, will not last in the NFL. And that includes Newton.

If you flipped McCoy and Dalton. I say Cinci has one less win, and Cleveland has one more. That's not a huge difference IMO. But I believe Daltons ceiling is slightly higher yes. But I believe McCoys ceiling is high enough to win a Super Bowl in Cleveland.

If we have Dalton, we are the Bengals and they are the Browns with this schedule. Do you really think we lose twice to the Bengals with Dalton? Do we lose to the Rams?

Obviously there's no way to know all that and I'm not trying to make Dalton out to be a superstar but he does seem to display better accuracy already. It just makes me wonder.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by damajuki

If we have Dalton, we are the Bengals and they are the Browns with this schedule. Do you really think we lose twice to the Bengals with Dalton? Do we lose to the Rams?

Obviously there's no way to know all that and I'm not trying to make Dalton out to be a superstar but he does seem to display better accuracy already. It just makes me wonder.

Is shumur still calling the plays for Dalton?

We can just agree to disagree. And we all wonder. But Unless my QB looks like Quinn did when he got his chance (you don't believe Colt looks that bad do you?). Then I believe in giving him more time to develop especially when you haven't given him the proper weapons yet. Because I personally believe drafting a first round QB is at best a 30-70 prop bet.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by damajuki

Cam's ceiling.

Scam's Ceiling-


McCoy's ceiling-


Nope, there's no question about it. To answer your other questions in between the multiple Scam BJ posts i've watched alot of Panthers football. Apparently more than you have.

[Sez.EJ]

Originally Posted by damajuki

If we have Dalton, we are the Bengals and they are the Browns with this schedule. Do you really think we lose twice to the Bengals with Dalton? Do we lose to the Rams?

Obviously there's no way to know all that and I'm not trying to make Dalton out to be a superstar but he does seem to display better accuracy already. It just makes me wonder.

How well does Dalton pass with a 300 lb man in his chest? If he can still complete a pass within a 2 seconds and a man in his chest then we should just put him in the hall of fame right now.

Aaron Rogers would be on a 4 win team if he were the Browns QB.. The blocking has been pathetic all but 2 games and the WR's are the worst in the league. The QB can't change that. Colt is not the reason the Browns WR's lead the league in drops.. Trust me they could drop passes from Drew Breese and Aaron Rogers too..

[Greythan]

Let's not let the Dalton fever run off the reservation.

I don't think we win any more games with Dalton than without. The better question is how would our offense look with AJ Green, Simpson, and the 21st overall TE from last year (whatever his name is)?

Instead we're throwing to MoMassDisappearnce, Robo-gonzo, LittleAbilityToCatch, et al.

[hiwaygal]

I don't think Cam vs Colt is a fair comparison...they aren't the same kind of QB.

Cam is Dog-killah Vick and maybe a bit of Pig Ben, and from what I've seen so far more like Tebow. More apt to run than make a pass play. It's weird. With the exception of Pig Ben I can never decide if they are so freakin' cocky as to think they are the only ones capable of making a play, or if there really is no other open option, or if they simply don't trust themselves or their receivers enough to throw the ball.

Colt is different and more of the "traditional" QB (if you ask me). He will run if need be, but his first option is to try to use the weapons around him to their best advantage. The point being that they *should* be further away than he is (or can get) to move the chains. Dalton may be a more fair comparison but IMO the book is still out on him...it is much too soon to be crowing that he has a better upside than Colt. We'll only know that for sure when their careers are over.

The more appropriate question that should be asked is: How much are you willing to gamble? Because that's what this is really all about.

I'm not really a gambler unless I see a HUGE upside nearly guaranteed.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

How well does Dalton pass with a 300 lb man in his chest? If he can still complete a pass within a 2 seconds and a man in his chest then we should just put him in the hall of fame right now.

Aaron Rogers would be on a 4 win team if he were the Browns QB.. The blocking has been pathetic all but 2 games and the WR's are the worst in the league. The QB can't change that. Colt is not the reason the Browns WR's lead the league in drops.. Trust me they could drop passes from Drew Breese and Aaron Rogers too..

Now let's not get crazy here. Rodgers, Brady, or Brees would have had this team at 6 wins or more. That's not the comparison you can make to Colt or Dalton.