The Difference Between Winning & Losing...

[Thaid_Up]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

Great read Flugs my friend.................................I don't want to comment too much on the game because it was pathetic.

My one observation I'd like to pass on would be that our rush defense really sucked at the beginning of the year but it seemed to right itself a bit lately when we replaced Mitchell. Yesterday was Mitchell's first extended playing time at RDE in awhile. They came right at him from the first play and just blew him out of most gaps all day. It might be the worst I ever saw a DE get handled at this level in my life.

His play really sucked. I know he pissed a moaned when Sheard beat him out at LDE and he had to move to RDE. He whined again when he got beat out by a UDFA known to nobody a few weeks ago and he played uninspired and got his ass handed to him all day today. Since he was getting blown off the ball so easy it allowed the FB or pulling guard to get to the next level very easily and attack our LBs who have enough trouble filling gaps and making plays without extra men coming at them.

That was some real bad shit to watch because the other side of the line (Sheard) was playing hard and playing well. Mitchell's play affected the whole unit. Trying to put another person in that gap caused a ripple effect elsewhere and the flood gates couldn't be closed.

That said, this is a team that still lacks the talent to overcome mistakes like dropped passes and foolish penalties on offense. And, they certainly don't have to talent to hide such a large problem like Mitchell's play at RDE.

really nothing to add to this just wanted to emphasize that last statement. There needs to be some major action this off season to convince me this team wants to matter.

[Flugel]

IMO opinion the BIGGEST difference between winning and losing is the Rooney Family vrs the Lerner Family. Who would you RATHER have running your NFL business? No wonder why that fanbase GROWS - people that make it their hobby aren't getting kicked in the Adam's apples every Sunday for doign so. They actually get rewarded for their loyalties.

We're only going to win 4 games this year so you tell me if we need another pompous hotshot like Holmgren coming into town thinking he has 10 years to win. When they haven't walked in our shoes since 1994 - maybe they ought to INVEST a little understanding in WHERE this franchise has been before the idiot looks down his nose at fans wanting better than 4-5 wins every year. I'm sorry but that's on the owner for not knowing enough about his business to be better for us. If one thinks somebody couldn't bury this franchise further thhan Modell did - ummmm, take a FREAKIN look and I don't feel like sayin FREAKIN.

Every December feels just like that feeling we had watching the team lose it's final home game before the REAL Cleveland Browns went off to Baltimore to compete like our old tradition. They're representing the Cleveland Browns today WAY better than the Lerner family. I don't even like the new stadium to be honest. In 6 out of state visits I've seen 1 offensive TD. In 2006, when I got all excited about LeCharles Bentley coming - I drove my dad and my cousin to training camp timing it so we could see the early evening practice. Unbeknownst to us while we were on our way from Rochester, NY at the time - He blew his knee out in the morning non-contact practice. That was our wonderful greeting when we were in a local store buying as much Cleveland Browns shirts and jerseys as we could. This is all it ever is and I've gotta start asking myself WHY I trust the Lerner family whne all they've shown us is there is ZERO urgency to win now or next year or next year or next year or next year. Even better, Mike Holmgren says it would be foolish to expect this team to win anytime soon and randy is 100% okay with it.

Folks, Holmgren got FIRED in a brass capacity in Seattle - which sheds light on the BIGGEST reason he prefers to be called Coach. That was the Sequel to Sleepless in Seattle - trust me! I'm at the point where I HOPE Joe Thomas gets an epiphany and asks to be traded if this organization doesn't care about winning while he's in the prime of his career. They need to LET Cribbs go to the SAME place they let Costanzo go where his efforts will be utilized - and even better appreciated as it WINS.

I no longer care about whether McCoy keeps his job or we draft some Barbie Doll headed for the culture shock of a lifetime learning the difference of throwing to the best of the best out west vrs throwing to NO legitimate playmakers here. Seriously, our #1 WR has worse hands than Quincy Morgan. I never thought I'd see the day where that was possible. What's even more pathetic is he doesn't have to catych any passes in traffic or any that touch his hands because the message is he'll NEVER come out. Out of curiosity - HOW is it any different than Butch tellign players you'll only play iof you hustle while Big Money without ever hustling? It's no different. And btw, WHY did Evan Moore get the NECESSARY pay raise only to play a few downs per half? Really? And Chris Gocong is atrocius. He's got the instincts of a raccoon crossing the road at night, which is why he's always so easily blocked. LBers with instinct don't get blocked because they pass through that area before the olinemen can get them. Ever see Sean Lea of Dallas play OLBer? NOBODY every lays a hand on him because he's got unmatched insincts with that first step. If they're ALWAYS blockable - they're always replaceable. With the exception of D'Qwell - our LBers suckage was why life remained so easy for Ray Rice. The 2nd best LBer on our team is Titus Brown so he sits. And why? It's VERY similar to Cribbs scoring 4 TDs as a WR so he can sit and watch a guy like Greg Little dominate reps to score only 1 TD. Absolutely absurd!

If this franchise doesn't want to put playmakers on the field and they feel they have the leverage to tell a guy like Hillis he can take a hike - the owner is DEAD to me man. You can't be THAT stupid with your business because Mike says so. The Lerner family is making a killing on a once proud tradition they have done ZERO to build on. In fact, they look like they have been cutting ties with COUNTLESS former Browns that we grew up admiring. Geee, way to go Randy - you better get back over to the other side of the Atlantic Ocean and tend to your pro soccer team. I really really really wish there was someone that LOVED this franchise that had the cake to buy this franchise and run this NFL business the way it needs to be.

[nickers]

Originally Posted by Flugel

IMO opinion the BIGGEST difference between winning and losing is the Rooney Family vrs the Lerner Family. Who would you RATHER have running your NFL business? No wonder why that fanbase GROWS - people that make it their hobby aren't getting kicked in the Adam's apples every Sunday for doign so. They actually get rewarded for their loyalties.

We're only going to win 4 games this year so you tell me if we need another pompous hotshot like Holmgren coming into town thinking he has 10 years to win. When they haven't walked in our shoes since 1994 - maybe they ought to INVEST a little understanding in WHERE this franchise has been before the idiot looks down his nose at fans wanting better than 4-5 wins every year. I'm sorry but that's on the owner for not knowing enough about his business to be better for us. If one thinks somebody couldn't bury this franchise further thhan Modell did - ummmm, take a FREAKIN look and I don't feel like sayin FREAKIN.

Every December feels just like that feeling we had watching the team lose it's final home game before the REAL Cleveland Browns went off to Baltimore to compete like our old tradition. They're representing the Cleveland Browns today WAY better than the Lerner family. I don't even like the new stadium to be honest. In 6 out of state visits I've seen 1 offensive TD. In 2006, when I got all excited about LeCharles Bentley coming - I drove my dad and my cousin to training camp timing it so we could see the early evening practice. Unbeknownst to us while we were on our way from Rochester, NY at the time - He blew his knee out in the morning non-contact practice. That was our wonderful greeting when we were in a local store buying as much Cleveland Browns shirts and jerseys as we could. This is all it ever is and I've gotta start asking myself WHY I trust the Lerner family whne all they've shown us is there is ZERO urgency to win now or next year or next year or next year or next year. Even better, Mike Holmgren says it would be foolish to expect this team to win anytime soon and randy is 100% okay with it.

Folks, Holmgren got FIRED in a brass capacity in Seattle - which sheds light on the BIGGEST reason he prefers to be called Coach. That was the Sequel to Sleepless in Seattle - trust me! I'm at the point where I HOPE Joe Thomas gets an epiphany and asks to be traded if this organization doesn't care about winning while he's in the prime of his career. They need to LET Cribbs go to the SAME place they let Costanzo go where his efforts will be utilized - and even better appreciated as it WINS.

I no longer care about whether McCoy keeps his job or we draft some Barbie Doll headed for the culture shock of a lifetime learning the difference of throwing to the best of the best out west vrs throwing to NO legitimate playmakers here. Seriously, our #1 WR has worse hands than Quincy Morgan. I never thought I'd see the day where that was possible. What's even more pathetic is he doesn't have to catych any passes in traffic or any that touch his hands because the message is he'll NEVER come out. Out of curiosity - HOW is it any different than Butch tellign players you'll only play iof you hustle while Big Money without ever hustling? It's no different. And btw, WHY did Evan Moore get the NECESSARY pay raise only to play a few downs per half? Really? And Chris Gocong is atrocius. He's got the instincts of a raccoon crossing the road at night, which is why he's always so easily blocked. LBers with instinct don't get blocked because they pass through that area before the olinemen can get them. Ever see Sean Lea of Dallas play OLBer? NOBODY every lays a hand on him because he's got unmatched insincts with that first step. If they're ALWAYS blockable - they're always replaceable. With the exception of D'Qwell - our LBers suckage was why life remained so easy for Ray Rice. The 2nd best LBer on our team is Titus Brown so he sits. And why? It's VERY similar to Cribbs scoring 4 TDs as a WR so he can sit and watch a guy like Greg Little dominate reps to score only 1 TD. Absolutely absurd!

If this franchise doesn't want to put playmakers on the field and they feel they have the leverage to tell a guy like Hillis he can take a hike - the owner is DEAD to me man. You can't be THAT stupid with your business because Mike says so. The Lerner family is making a killing on a once proud tradition they have done ZERO to build on. In fact, they look like they have been cutting ties with COUNTLESS former Browns that we grew up admiring. Geee, way to go Randy - you better get back over to the other side of the Atlantic Ocean and tend to your pro soccer team. I really really really wish there was someone that LOVED this franchise that had the cake to buy this franchise and run this NFL business the way it needs to be.

Tom...this absolutley summed it up for Me...Only I couldnt pen it with that way...Im not saying Bob Kraft is the greatest,but look at how connected to his team he is...It just makes a world of difference.

[1brownsfans]

I was going to read the op and all the responses but i don't know what it's like to win so i figured it was moot.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by Flugel

IMO opinion the BIGGEST difference between winning and losing is the Rooney Family vrs the Lerner Family. Who would you RATHER have running your NFL business? No wonder why that fanbase GROWS - people that make it their hobby aren't getting kicked in the Adam's apples every Sunday for doign so. They actually get rewarded for their loyalties.

Honestly? Randy Lerner. I... I just can't bring myself to ever wishing the Browns were associated with the Rooney's in any aspect, ever. I know they "win" alot and all that but I wanna win the right way, not the Steeler way.

I know where you're going with it though and I agree, and i'd even point to many other owners. Jerry Jones for all the bullshit flung his way tries to give his team only the best and when you see the old man pacing the sidelines and throwing his paperwork you know he gives a damn. Al Davis for all the crap he took cared about one thing, WINNING and if you weren't winning you weren't employed there very long. I'd gladly take an owner that cares to that level anyday.

The saddest part is Eddie DeBartolo Jr has wanted to buy the Browns for several years now. People can say whatever they like but the old guy knows the game and ONLY settles for the absolute best. The 1980's 49'ers dynasty wasn't a mirage. Sadder yet was Denise York brought him in to consult the 49'ers this last offseason and it culminated in Ed encouraging the 'Niners to hire Jim Harbaugh and outbid everyone else, the results of which are a postseason and a city once again filled with hope as he obviously made another great decision.

Just a hunch but had Lerner sold to Eddie D in 2008 like Eddie approached him about Jim Harbaugh or someone just as good would have us heading into the post season this year.

Originally Posted by Flugel

Folks, Holmgren got FIRED in a brass capacity in Seattle - which sheds light on the BIGGEST reason he prefers to be called Coach. That was the Sequel to Sleepless in Seattle - trust me! I'm at the point where I HOPE Joe Thomas gets an epiphany and asks to be traded if this organization doesn't care about winning while he's in the prime of his career. They need to LET Cribbs go to the SAME place they let Costanzo go where his efforts will be utilized - and even better appreciated as it WINS.

Not only was he fired as President and GM of the Seahawks after his faux "retirement" that lasted all of 3 regular season games before he was hinting to Seattle he was ready to return as soon as THEY rebuilt his mess... Not only that but Seattle wants NOTHING to do with this guy ever again. Green Bay wants NOTHING to do with him. Keep that in mind folks.

Originally Posted by Flugel

If this franchise doesn't want to put playmakers on the field and they feel they have the leverage to tell a guy like Hillis he can take a hike - the owner is DEAD to me man. You can't be THAT stupid with your business because Mike says so. The Lerner family is making a killing on a once proud tradition they have done ZERO to build on. In fact, they look like they have been cutting ties with COUNTLESS former Browns that we grew up admiring. Geee, way to go Randy - you better get back over to the other side of the Atlantic Ocean and tend to your pro soccer team. I really really really wish there was someone that LOVED this franchise that had the cake to buy this franchise and run this NFL business the way it needs to be.

I hear ya Tom. At this point I think the only hope we have is after Lerner accepts that he failed in his latest hiring he follows through with his comment from last offseason and sells the team. Let's hope Eddie Debartolo Jr still has a passionate interest.

[pl4tinum]

Good lord am I ever in favor of a complete ownership change. Nothing says "culture change" like a new owner. Nothing. Shurmur is so bad, and you know these bozos will never fire him. I just hope Lerner has an out clause in their contracts or something.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by pl4tinum

Good lord am I ever in favor of a complete ownership change. Nothing says "culture change" like a new owner. Nothing. Shurmur is so bad, and you know these bozos will never fire him. I just hope Lerner has an out clause in their contracts or something.

Actually, I'd predict Holmgren throws Shurmur under the bus before he would Jauron.