Scary Commitments & Moving On thoughts Up-top

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Thaid_Up

Damn, Flugs, why don't you just shoot me! Great post as usual. Have zero answers for 1-8 and my #9 answer is more desperation than reason. I'm pasting from another thread.


I'll try and keep this short. I said in another thread earlier in the year that I thought the brass decided that with new systems, new coaches, lockout, etc. this team was not going to challenge for anything this year so they're gonna run those new systems down the team's throat no matter what. Players would be coached, graded, and evaluated and then decisions would be made for next year. I believe that's why there were no moves in the FA market. See the players you want and then use next year's draft and FA to bring in the players you need.

Not even saying I'm right but for a true fan who desperately wants to believe this team actually wants to accomplish something and move forward what other explanation can there be without going for KOK's theory of robbing Lehner blind and moving on?(no dis intended, King) Is that why Mitchell's ass isn't on the bench? Is that why Little's ass isn't on the bench? Although I think that since Little didn't play last year and doesn't have a lot of experience at the position Shurmur is just playing him for reps. The Hillis deal is just mind boggling. Like I said, man, just shoot me.

Then all this gets into another argument EE had about if I'm right, why should he, you, or I accept throwing away a season this way. But now I'm just rehashing old posts and my brain hurts.

Unless you want to buy into the idea that Lerhner could care less how this team progresses (and who could argue with that at this point?) you have to grab into anything that would paint a better picture than what we're seeing now. I have to or the team I've worshiped forever is forcing me to move on. Not there yet, though

Great stuff! KOKs reminds me of purchasing a great tasting wine that has been allowed to age before deciding on the overall value of the purchase. When he first makes a point - we're not always sold. After his point has had time to age and mature, it's usually right on the money.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Flugel

Really good points made Golf! I like your questions about who is dictating who plays. It still makes me think back to Butch Davis pissing off all the players he was telling "we earn our reps here with hustle and snot bubbles" while Big Money was the laziest guy on the team getting those reps regardless. Today, Greg Little and Shawn Lauvao NEVER come off the field whether it's an unnecessary 15 yard flag from Lauvao or multiple drops from Little.

My beef with Savage was usually in defense of what Mangini inherited and what I felt was unjust criticism toward having only 4 draft picks inherited with the sizable roster volume that needed to be purged WITHOUT a front office guiding Mangini. I just found Savage to be too disconnected with what RAC wanted in his front 7. You bring up a terrific example like Wimbley who playing his best football in a 4-3 scheme just like D'Qwell Jackson is doing so today. Where I saw the problem was RAC came here saying he wanted to run a 3-4 so he needed certain pedigree of LBer and the types of dlinemen that can play in a 2 gap scheme upfront. Savage got him high paid veterans from 4 man dlines with 1 gap schemes like: Shaun Smith, Shaun Rogers, Corey Williams and Robaire Smith. The ONLY guy that wasn't a disappointment was Robaire Smith due to the fact he played in a 3 man scheme in Houston before he went to TN's 4 man scheme. His problem was age and wear and tear. He landed on IR a couple times. Other bad choices included Jason Fisk on an empty gas tank and Ted Washington about 4 years after his best football. He was really excited about signing Antwan Peek from Hosuton who was NEVER healthy before coming to Cleveland. He went to IR every year here as well. We had the PERFECT 3-4 LBer on our doorstep in round 2 by the name of LaMar Woodley the year we drafted D'Qwell near the top of round 2. It actually took me all the way until this year to feel happy with Jackson's performance. He wasn't a very good 3-4 ILBer just like Jon Vilma never was with the Jets before excelling in New Orleans' 4-3. Neither guy was built/born to take on the girthy OGs of the NFL. The sad reason I was most excited about changing our defense back to a 4-3 this year was because of how long I was disappointed we could never find the right LBers. I saw too many ILBers nout suited to take on 330 pound OGs behind 3 guys upfront that should have never left their previous 1 gap schemes for the 2 gap scheme they weren't suited for. That's why David Bowens provided a surprising spark when he replced D'Qwell Jackson inside in 2009 because he was bigger and he handled the OGs easier. I view all that as a BAD personnel decision maker, which absolutely handcuffed/killed the plan RAC had in mind. A GM has to know what his coach needs. I look at what RAC did with the right personnel in KC and he has a conference leading sacker in Tamba Hali the last 2 years while LBer Derrick Johnson has been playing the best football of his career. That KC defense turned it right around last year because Scott Pioli was equipping RAC with the right guys for his scheme.

The thing that irked me most about Savage was I was soooo excited he told us we were going to build through the draft and not overpay in FA. In the press conference I watched and heard online, he said the draft was the biggest reason he got hired in Cleveland. Next thing I know, we didn't have a day 1 for the 2008 draft and we only had 4 draft picks remaining for 2009. He made some horrible FA choices like signing Joe Andruzzi and Kevin Shaffer to be the blind sight for our right handed QBs. There were alot blunders more but I don't want to get too long winded. I think Mangini got unfairly criticized due to that nightmare Savage left him there.

If you want to tell me Savage wasn't any worse than the reason he was hired to better up - I can't argue at all. Me, being the HOMER I always am, I had a powerful first impression of Savage that led to the conclusion: he sounds VERY trustworthy with the confidence in his approach and draft skills. Like everyone else that has had his position here, I think they under-estimated the overall challenge once the work began following the upfront promises and willingness to be different. Now, I'm worrying I've put the same trust and confidence in Heckert. Savage is over in Philly as a key personnel scout where they traded away a bunch of picks to draft DE Brandon Graham out of Michigan in round 1 a couple years - has he made a splash yet? And Heckert is here giving raises to Evan Moore and Chris Gocong while telling a guy like Hillis to Go-Fish on that new contract talk. The KARMA of all this since Mangini got his walking papers for not being an instant miracle worker is now they have to take a step or 2 backward to see that the Lerner business isn't attracting the top rated miracle workers to coach this team. We might want to hire David Copperfield as a consultant considering what Gil Haskell has done for his 6-7 figured salary.

Didn't want this to get left behind on the previous page.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by Flugel

Great stuff! KOKs reminds me of purchasing a great tasting wine that has been allowed to age before deciding on the overall value of the purchase. When he first makes a point - we're not always sold. After his point has had time to age and mature, it's usually right on the money.

Ha thanks Flugs, although I wish I wasn't on the money about 3/4 of the time. :/

[hiwaygal]

Originally Posted by Flugel

9) How can I feel better about all this

Drink. Heavily. Strong stuff.