Shurmur Continues to crack

[golfer704u]

oh and Shurmurs not winning either, How many years do you give him to figure it out?

DO you REALLY see the team on the field now as one that can do any better than 8-8 next year? REALLY?

[YtownBacker]

I can't blame what happened from 1999 to 2009 on this FO or coaching staff. The constant rebuilding, blown draft picks and bad FA signings before they came shouldn't be tied to them.

That said, I don't see anything different happening in the last two years. I don't see proof we are moving in the right direction and I won't make excuses for how pathetic this team looks on game day. All I see now is change for the sake of change and a plan that has stalled.

As for some beat writers still calling the game tonight a rivalry.............pathetic

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

I can't blame what happened from 1999 to 2009 on this FO or coaching staff. The constant rebuilding, blown draft picks and bad FA signings before they came shouldn't be tied to them.

While you cannot blame them for it you CAN blame them for being seemingly oblivious to it. I don't know, it's just a sense I get but I sense these guys HAVEN'T researched the last decade nor our history to gain an understanding of why this team isn't winning. Their attitudes are as if we just started losing when EM arrived so they have all the time they want to do what they want.

I think HAD they done that research they, or rather Heckert maybe and Shurmer wouldn't have been so eager to blow two years of work up and dive into another rebuild. They would also understand why Browns fans are so pissed off, after years of THAT we finally see this team going in the right direction only for them to take it back to square one. That's on them for sure.

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

That said, I don't see anything different happening in the last two years. I don't see proof we are moving in the right direction and I won't make excuses for how pathetic this team looks on game day. All I see now is change for the sake of change and a plan that has stalled.

I was seeing growth the previous two seasons but unfortunately i'm NOT seeing it now. I'm seeing us rapidly sink back into a hole where we hope another intelligent HC will be willing to come coach this team and pull us BACK out of the basement in another year or two.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by King of Kings

While you cannot blame them for it you CAN blame them for being seemingly oblivious to it. I don't know, it's just a sense I get but I sense these guys HAVEN'T researched the last decade nor our history to gain an understanding of why this team isn't winning. Their attitudes are as if we just started losing when EM arrived so they have all the time they want to do what they want.

You just explained in one paragraph just about everything I've been feeling since Holmgren came here.

It wasn't just about liking what Mangini was building. It was the feeling you got that They were so eager to blame everything on Mangini that they ingored the fact that we have basically been an expansion team for 10+years. Just starting over every 2 to 4 years.

And they Holmgren assumed that becuase he was the mighty Mike Holgren that people would be willing to put up with starting at square one and being an expansion team again because HE said it would be better. ANd that he would have the 5 years to rebuild this that he wasn't willing to give the guy that was here before he rode in on his white horse.

And unfrotunately while I'm not one who advocates changing ownership because I believe you can end up with a worse owner than Lerner. I think he shares some of this blame because he too also believe in hiring Holmgren it would get the fans of his back for 3-5 years.

But as Browns fans were sick of being told "be patient, we know more than you". We've heard that act before. Just because you may have been sucessful elsehwere, you don't get a pass here.

[Dan in Florida]

Yes, a great summation as Golfer said!

______________________

[next2nothing]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

And unfrotunately while I'm not one who advocates changing ownership because I believe you can end up with a worse owner than Lerner. I think he shares some of this blame because he too also believe in hiring Holmgren it would get the fans of his back for 3-5 years.

I don't want a change in ownership, because like you said, you can end up worse. But I've been tossing around in my head for a few weeks now that maybe a new owner is needed and that the Browns will never get over the hump of being a perennial loser until that happens.

[Greythan]

Originally Posted by next2nothing

I don't want a change in ownership, because like you said, you can end up worse. But I've been tossing around in my head for a few weeks now that maybe a new owner is needed and that the Browns will never get over the hump of being a perennial loser until that happens.

The owner is the lone common denominator of the failed franchise that started in 1999.

Just sayin'

[next2nothing]

Originally Posted by Greythan

The owner is the lone common denominator of the failed franchise that started in 1999.

Just sayin'

I actually was going to type up a thread with a theory I've been brewing up that the one factor that is constant every year since coming back is Lerner and that he is tied to our continuing failure.

But I didn't know how crazy it would sound! lol

[hiwaygal]

Originally Posted by next2nothing

But I didn't know how crazy it would sound! lol

Why are you worried about that now? You already signed up as a member here.

[next2nothing]

Originally Posted by hiwaygal

Why are you worried about that now? You already signed up as a member here.

True haha!

[hammertime]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

oh and Shurmurs not winning either, How many years do you give him to figure it out?

DO you REALLY see the team on the field now as one that can do any better than 8-8 next year? REALLY?

If Shurmer can't figure it out by mid season next year he'll be under the same scrutiny every other losing Cle coach got.

As for 8-8 next season- alot depends on the current draft panning out alot better than we are seeing right now. Alot hinges on whether McCoy warrants another year to improve or not.

We are going to need as many picks as possible coupled with the FA signings we didn't see this year.

So then, with McCoy staying, our fabulous incoming draft picks and offseason FA pickups i see us as 8-8- though that might be the ceiling right there. A competetive 8-8.

Selling the farm to get Luck would probaly give you 1-2 5 win seasons with a huge ceiling yet to be reached. Who knows??

I'm not a homer for the current regime its just that losing has breed contempt for anyone in charge. Losing seasons don't come with a fast forward button so as fans all you can really do is wait till next year or bail. But its not as if there is some kind of conspiracy to pad ones ego going on.

Taylor,Haden,Ward,Sheard is better than what we had before.

McCoy,Hardesty,Little and few more are where you need a little luck to hit on.

Shurmer i'm guessing he's experiancing trial by fire this year and would need to rev things up in order to garner support for a longer tenure.

[Masters]

Originally Posted by King of Kings

Browns Coach Pat Shurmur Ends Press Conference Poorly

That story is funny since it isn't what happened. Shurmur took two more questions after he even commented about people rolling their eyes.

Cleveland Browns coach Pat Shurmur's Monday press conference: A transcript | cleveland.com

Browns coach Pat Shurmur's Monday press conference

Shurmur's opening statement:
"Two guys I'll rule out this week, Quinton Spears and T.J. Ward. They will not be ready to play on Thursday. From the game yesterday, Peyton Hillis sustained a left hip strain and I'm going to list him as day-to-day. He is a little bit sore today. Mike Adams, no worse for wear. Chris Gocong, oblique strain, day-to-day, he'll be fine for Thursday. Colt (McCoy), knee sprain, no structural damage, a little bit sore but he'll be day-to-day. Tony Pashos, elbow strain, but he'll be fine. The rest of the guy's will be full go."

"As I mentioned yesterday, you've got to have a short memory when it comes to a day like that. When we win it's a team win that was a team loss. We didn't do anything well enough, we didn't score enough points, we didn't control the run. The two missed field goals and the turnover, those end up being ways to get them stopped, which kept the score relatively close, but we didn't and then we gave up a punt return for a touchdown. You win together, you lose together and we as coaches have to do a better job of getting our guys in the right spot so they can perform. That's where it's at we're on to Pittsburgh. It's a short week as we know. Basically, get a couple of walk-throughs and a big day of practice and then go play against an opponent. We know what they are on offense, with Ben Roethlisberger, outstanding running game and they're first (overall) on defense. Another terrific team that we're going to face, they're coming off a victory, a division victory and we've got to get ready to go. So that's where we're at."

(Questions are paraphrased)
Question: Is there any chance that McCoy won't play on Thursday?

Shurmur: "At this point we'll just have to see. I think he got hit on a screen pass. It was kind of a glancing shot and then he played the whole game so I think he's probably just sore. I wouldn't say that he would miss the game."

Question: Did you seen any progress yesterday?

Shurmur: "I saw some things we did well. We certainly didn't do enough things well enough to win the game though. There were some things we got better at, but not enough."

Question: What did you see that you thought was progress?

Shurmur: "I'll keep that for a further conversation as we move forward. When you lose the game you didn't do anything well enough."

Question: How involved are you with the special teams, and will you look to make a change in coordinators?

Shurmur: "Well, I think we've had things happen during special teams. I think Chris (Tabor) is a fine coach and our guys are working extremely hard at it. We just need to find a way to be more productive and more consistent."

Question: What jumped out about the run defense from yesterday?

Shurmur: "We let them have some explosive runs, which you can't have. There's going to be times when the runners going to break through the linebacker level and you've got to get them on the ground. Then there are other times when they just picked away at us. There's a mixture of things there that we need to cleanup."

Question: Is it tougher when a division opponent beats you in a specific way?

Shurmur: "Well, the one game at a time scenario comes to mind right now and we'll get a chance to play these guys again here at the end of the year. So, it's one game at a time right now."

Question: Did yesterday show that the team has a long way to go to match up with Baltimore and Pittsburgh?

Shurmur: "Based on last night's performance against Baltimore, yes. I like to think that you're never as bad or never as good after a performance."

Question: How disconcerting was it for the Ravens to run the ball and not be able to stop them?

Shurmur: "Well, we just need to do a better job. I don't know what word I'll use other than we need to do a better job at stopping the run and you have to keep teams from scoring points. We found a way, basically, it was two touchdowns and a field goal. That's the important thing, eliminating scores and the important thing is to score."

Question: Was it an odd game defensively?

Shurmur: "Like I said, it's about eliminating the score. When you give up yardage and that's why the raw yardage numbers aren't always an indicator. Now, it was last night in some ways, but when you get them stopped that's the important thing. Get them stopped and disallow them from scoring."

Question: What's your mindset and the message to the team at this point?

Shurmur: "You just keep pushing. I think that's the important thing. If this were a real easy thing then everybody could do it and so I think you just keep pushing, you just keep pushing. You might get tired of me saying that, but that's what you do and try and find a way to win a game."

Question: Do you feel that you and your staff are putting players in the best position to succeed, or do you not have enough talent to succeed?

Shurmur: "Coaches and players, we've all got to do a better job, that's what I'll say."

Question: ARe you still excited to be a head coach after two-thirds of the season?

Shurmur: "I'm still excited to lead these guys and help pull through what it takes to win games. I'm excited and energized by the challenge that we have ahead and I'm not discouraged, not one bit. I'm not discouraged. Disappointed when we lose. When we win, I'm not so much happy for me when we win. I'm happy for the players, I'm happy for the coaches, I'm happy for the fans, I'm happy for everyone that follows us, fights for us and the guys in that locker room that actually do it. That's what I'm happiest for and I want them to have that feeling."

Question: How did Hillis get hurt?

Shurmur: "Just in general, running the football."

Question: Will Hillis practice?

Shurmur: "He's sore today, so we'll just see how he does through the week here. It'll be a short week. This see how he does through the week thing is a few hours I think."

Question: What's your message to the fans who may have lost faith, and did you see the empty seats in the stands?

Shurmur: "I don't know. I was pretty much concerned about what was going on, on the field. I understand why that happens. It was raining, it was cold, and we were down. I understand why that happens. I don't lose faith on things. I would hope and I would think that the fans won't as well. We're busting our fanny to get this thing right and it will get right."

Question: Why have teams like San Francisco and Carolina been able to make progress in winning games, and why do you keep saying the team is making progress, but it's not being seen in wins?

Shurmur: "I don't want to compare our teams to those teams. I think we got beat by the 49ers and they've had a nice year. We haven't played the Carolina Panthers, so I wouldn't compare us to them."

Question: Is it still tough to evaluate McCoy?

Shurmur: "I have a pretty good feel for what our players are and how they're competing through things. We have four more games here to help do that as well."

Question: How do you feel McCoy played this past week?

Shurmur: "He battled. He battled."

Question: Do you envision making some strides and then taking any step backs down the road?

Shurmur: "You want constant progress and you want it to show up as victories. We didn't play well enough last night to win. I think that's what happened."

Question: What does McCoy need to do to play better?

Shurmur: "I think every player that plays, you see good and bad things. I think every player just needs to be more consistent and every coach needs to be more consistent. There just needs to be more consistency from the first snap to the last. That comes basically by eliminating your errors. He's no different. When we ask the questions about Colt I think it can refer to everybody."

Question: What kind of identity do you want for the offense?

Shurmur: "We want an offense that's an efficient, physical offense that finds a way to score points. Enough points to win, that's what we want."

Question: What is the West Coast offense passing game designed to look like?

Shurmur: "You want to get completions obviously and you want to put the ball in the end zone. That's what you want to do. That's a quick question and there could be a long answer, but you need to get completions. You got to find a way to get big plays and you have to put the ball in the end zone. That's what we want to do."

Question: Do you find yourself saying "we got a long way to go?"

Shurmur: "No, I don't know if I've said that. I think we've got progress to make. When you're at this point in the season and you don't have as many victories as you want to have, then yeah, we got progress to make. I don't know if I would use the phrase 'long way to go'."

Question: Was it disturbing to see dropped passes and can you attribute them to the weather?

Shurmur: "Can't drop balls. Can't drop balls. You just can't do it, especially when they're catchable. We talk about it all the time and the players would tell you. Any ball in the air is ours. If it's thrown by our quarterback or there's, that needs to be the mentality and we've got to get that done."

Question: How about the Browns leading the league in dropped passes?

Shurmur: "We can't drop balls and that's unacceptable. We keep working to correct it. We'll make a special emphasis as we go."

Question: Is it discouraging that it seems the team is not fixing any of the mistakes that were made earlier in the season?

Shurmur: "You can't drop balls, I made that statement. I've seen things improve in areas. We'll talk about them at a later time. We don't want to drop balls, we got that. We need to do the things necessary to win games. Whether it started early or it's finishing late, we just need to keep getting better."

Question: How about the schedule for a Thursday night game?

Shurmur: "We're meeting today. Really there's not much you can do on the cleanup from Baltimore, so we just move right on to Pittsburgh. We've planned ahead on off days, not so much last week, but we've got a jump on what we need to get done. We will have meetings, a walk-through, because it's also important that we try to get their bodies right for a short turnaround. We will practice tomorrow and then have more practice on Wednesday, get on a plane and go down there. It's quick, but I'm used to it. I know how the schedule is supposed to look. We did it in Philadelphia a couple of times. I'm aware of how to do it."

Question: Is the team flying to Pittsburgh?

Shurmur: "Yeah."

Question: Do you have to coach differently when it comes to managing timeouts, regardless of a team's record?

Shurmur: "No, I wouldn't go back on that. I think it's important if you have the field and you have the timeouts, and you have an opportunity to get the ball back before the half, then you certainly use them. I don't care what your record is. I think that's important. You do what you can. Now when the field flips then you don't want to help them. They made a play on us. You don't want to help them. You never know what can happen. You force them to punt, you block a punt. They're all kinds of things. You don't try to characterize it based on, in my opinion, how you think your guys are doing."

Question: Why hasn't the team been able to make big plays?

Shurmur: "There have been games when it has happened, but there have been games when it hasn't on both sides. We've found a way to get some big plays. The idea is to score enough points to win and to keep them from scoring. That's the important thing. When you don't win you don't do that and that's what we need to do."

Question: What's your message to fans?

Shurmur: "I think it's just like everything you do. You just keep plugging ahead and this thing will turn when we least expect it. We just keep pushing. You just keep pushing. Again, I saw some eyes roll in here, so I can tell that maybe doesn't sink in real well. But, I will say this all you do is keep pushing. I don't have the memory of what's happened before. I do know this though, I've been around teams that have won and have built winners. You just be patient."

Question: Is this the core and foundation moving forward of a good team?

Shurmur: "Yeah, I think we've got some good young players that are doing some things well. Without talking about Jabaal Sheard again, played well again yesterday. Phil (Taylor) battled. You have a lot of rookies out there and a lot of first and second year players getting a lot of important playing time. I think that's important. We'll build on it."

Question: What is the mood and confidence level within the locker room right now?

Shurmur: "I think these guys want to win a game and they want to do what it takes to win. I think they're forging forward just like I am."