What Has Change Done For You?

[Danamal]

I had noticed all over pages on Facebook of friends and Browns fans from Cleveland calling for Shurmur's head.
Mangini deserved another year but most didn't want it but if your going to make a change don't you want to turn it around with a coach who has been there before and knows wtf he is doing?
The Browns suck because we use the shampoo recipe wash rinse repeat,we never change.

I can't post or care about the Browns anymore till they can show me they care and are committed to treating me to decent football that my 47 years of watching them means as much to them as it has for me.
Keeping calling out the coach and you will get a new coach,call out the franchise and maybe Lerner will sell the team to someone who has a clue,until then I'm done it saddens me but I refuse to eat each others lunch over this team we have all loved just be shit,I am worn the fuck out.

[hiwaygal]

lol...I thought this was a political thread!!

Danamal - I feel your pain and frustration. I think it hit me even harder this week (hitting someone when they're down).

To be honest, I don't care if we win and I don't care what our record is - I just want to see something that resembles a TEAM that knows how to play the freakin' game!

Yes we are a very young team (youngest in the NFL) - but something has to click! Hell, the first drive looked pretty damn good last night. Why can't they keep that up for 60 minutes? I understand there are going to be issues but for heaven's sake, haven't these guys been playing the game for 10-12 years (albeit not at the professional level). There has to be some basic, fundamental stuff that they are not getting.

They are mocking us...

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Danamal

I had noticed all over pages on Facebook of friends and Browns fans from Cleveland calling for Shurmur's head.
Mangini deserved another year but most didn't want it but if your going to make a change don't you want to turn it around with a coach who has been there before and knows wtf he is doing?
The Browns suck because we use the shampoo recipe wash rinse repeat,we never change.

I can't post or care about the Browns anymore till they can show me they care and are committed to treating me to decent football that my 47 years of watching them means as much to them as it has for me.
Keeping calling out the coach and you will get a new coach,call out the franchise and maybe Lerner will sell the team to someone who has a clue,until then I'm done it saddens me but I refuse to eat each others lunch over this team we have all loved just be shit,I am worn the fuck out.

Good to see you back in the mix Danamal!

The irony is Danamal resides in the city of Brotherly Love where he has had to listen to Philly fan complain for about a decade about the HC, GM and Donovan McNabb (for not being the Ricky Williams they wanted, which of course also meant they got a much better RB like Brian Westbrook in a mid round a year or 2 later). Philly a franchise that was so piss poor, they WOULD have drafted 1st overall in 99 if Cleveland was re-entering the league. That means there was quite a makeover to be performed there. As of 2000, they made the playoffs, rinsed and repeated for something like 11 years in a row or pretty damn close to that. There were 5 NFC Championship appearances and 1 Superbowl appearance. And yet, those fans act like they've had it rough.

Danamal, you tell all that Brotherly Love over there what it's like to have an NFL owner that knows alot more about his Pro Soccer Team on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean than he understands how to compete with the NFL busineses in Pittsburgh, Baltimore and even Cincy. If those Philly fans walked in our shoes, Randy Lerner would have been buried next to Jimmy Hoffa a long time ago. I don't buy that he opens his wallet so he's GOOD. We have new brass here that acts like they have at least 5 years before they have to start winning just 1 year after informing us the reason they brought Shurmur here was to win easier than the staff they did NOT HIRE was doing so.

[akronjoe]

Originally Posted by Danamal

I had noticed all over pages on Facebook of friends and Browns fans from Cleveland calling for Shurmur's head.
Mangini deserved another year but most didn't want it but if your going to make a change don't you want to turn it around with a coach who has been there before and knows wtf he is doing?
The Browns suck because we use the shampoo recipe wash rinse repeat,we never change.

I can't post or care about the Browns anymore till they can show me they care and are committed to treating me to decent football that my 47 years of watching them means as much to them as it has for me.
Keeping calling out the coach and you will get a new coach,call out the franchise and maybe Lerner will sell the team to someone who has a clue,until then I'm done it saddens me but I refuse to eat each others lunch over this team we have all loved just be shit,I am worn the fuck out.

I have been a fan since 1964. I share in your history. yet since Marty was shoved out of town By Modell it has been mostly a legacy of sadness, since the Lerners took control it is has been a travesty.
I had the rare pleasure talking to a browns DB from the late 60s early 70s era and asked what brain aneurism caused the tailspin of horrific trades in 1970 as we dumped Kanicki, Warfield, Gregory, Ron Johnson, Bob Mathison, Marvin Upshaw, and received squat. the browns had a fire sale as the steelers were ascending. This player told me a former SPORTSWRITER was Modell's stooge GM killing this team.

Yet the Lerners make Model seem wizened in comparison.
1999: the ludicrous pronouncement thet the "49er braintrust" of carmen Policy and Dwight Clark were running the team..a friggin lawyer and a now car salesman were responsible for launching this team with a horrendous coach. they blew two entire years of extra picks and only a kicker remains.
Then the stooge pete garcia was responsible for his botched draft strategies at the bidding of the halfway house that was butch davis( he was fired from NC for the same crap).
Then the botched hires of yet another never before GM picking players for yet another never been a HC as these two blew three years and at the end where no better, even WORSE than the davis team they inherited.
Then Lerner added his coup de gras hiring a coach freshly fired and let him pick his stooge gm who conducted a draft and trades not seen since dwight Clark was GM.
This was after fans took to wearing paper bags and lerner vowed to "hire a top GM to do a thorough search for a coach...and he did the opposite. we suffered through the predictable result as kokinis kept his job for 4 months
Now the Holmgren era..
he has hired a solid GM as he has two good drafts..yet when it came to to choose HIS coach...what yardstick did he use. why did solid coaches not want to come to Cleveland? why did Holmgren end his search before the second round in the playoffs? Why did another coach with no previous HC experience was handed the job in the toughest division in the NFL?
How do we compete when we are outcoached AND outtalented each week. When will this end? Can anyone seriously believe we are better at year2 than year one? Is Shurmer better than Mangini?

The way this team has made decisions has been agonizing for the last dozen years.
Now they are evaluating McCoy, hillis looks gone and so does cribbs as this Coach resembles the same rigidity often a mistake for first time coaches: though shall not speak the TRUTH. Last night I saw this coach actually call one of his most creative games vs the Steelers...In the first half. then gone was hillis, gone was passing on first down, gone was the extra blocking kept in for mcCoy, sidelined was a seemingly healthy Cribbs..and the players ALMOST overcame bad coaching.
yet the defensive coaches chipped in. they chose to rarely Blitz an immobile Rothlisbergh the second half..Kind of Rob Ryan reverse reality.

I have little faith in this coach yet the front office bears responsibility for the rotten fruit of poor season. In pre season the front office stood pat on positions in DIRE need: secondary, RB, OLB, Oline, WR. we even sat when Denver dumped a top WR for a #6 choice.. Now we are told mcCoy is being "evaluated"
give a young QB no blocking, do not get adequate backups at RB, release a top blocking FB, get him no reliable wrs and make delusional pronouncements about the readiness of of a corp that leads the NFL in drops, add in petty skirmishes with top players and keeping them sidelined or out of the gameplan and you see how much of a chance this kid has had.

I evaluate where this team is now.
Loyalty of fans- A++++
Level of competence of the GM on Draft day= B+
Level of competence of the GM in free agency when assessing the teams needs in free agency and getting help for critical need= F-----
Level Of Competence when Holmgren spoke of jake delhomme as a top QB= F---
Speaking of Tony Pahos as a top RT F-,
releasing all manginis assistants( Top special teams, and rob Ryan)
Hiring a HCV with no previous experience who is a poor game day F----

Why did no top Coaches WANT to interview for the Browns?
Why did the browns front office make the hiring of Ryan/seely a priority?
next year will be year 3 of Holmgren and i see this team no further along than year one. with MORE talent this team is less competetive.

I dare say if you let the PLAYERS call their own game the last 3 contests they would be far better off than the limited coaching (leadership)..
There is NO LEADERSHIP from this Coach and I see hillis, mcCoy, and cribbs as scapegoats.
Finally, down 7-3 with 3 minutes left on The Steeler 10 YL, you reinsert a QB who may have sustained one of the most brutal dirty hits i have ever seen( harrison should serve a FOUR game suspension immediately, if Suh gets two for namby pamby kick, Harrission who has a history of dirty violent play should get four.)
This Coach reinsert a QB who probably had sustained a concussion and he leaves no extra blocking as the steelers force him into a rash int.
That says all i want to Know about Shurmer, who know any better about the readiness of mccoy than any of us because he never speaks to the kid.
POOR LEADERSHIP!!!!!
but key players will be scapegoated.
And holmgren: he has to back the ignorant choice he made has HC. This guy made his Bones as a HC and was fired as a GM and left a Seattle team in disarray due to his poor personnel moves. he is faring little better.

Who needs to be reevaluated? Holmgren and Shurmer.
had i been the head guy? I am not.
I would have picked a LEADER as HC, a guy a player once said who left the Browns
" he would have run through a wall for". But this Coach had too much independence for "hands off" Holmgren.
I would have made ROB RYAN HC and then get him a solid OC.
I like our GM and not much else.

[Greythan]

Nice post Joe.

[hiwaygal]

Originally Posted by akronjoe

I like our GM and not much else.

I like a few players! lol

But yeah, that's about it.

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

Originally Posted by akronjoe

I had the rare pleasure talking to a browns DB from the late 60s early 70s era and asked what brain aneurism caused the tailspin of horrific trades in 1970 as we dumped Kanicki, Warfield, Gregory, Ron Johnson, Bob Mathison, Marvin Upshaw, and received squat. the browns had a fire sale as the steelers were ascending. This player told me a former SPORTSWRITER was Modell's stooge GM killing this team.

Nice post Joe. I don't know what sportswriter you are talking about, and apparently you don't want to call him out by name, but haven't we seen some of the same type of stuff happening here of late?

The henchmen led by Tony Grossi ran the first HC since Marty who truly understood the job at hand in Mangini out of town. An ignorant pitch fork wielding fan known as Dawg Pound Mike somehow got every intelligent Browns fans dream of getting the owners ear and actually having him act on advice given ...and before you know it Mangini is a dead man walking, and we have a has been with an ego the size of Jupiter running the show.

The best decision Lerner ever made was jumping on Mangini when he was run out of town by the NY media, and giving him a 5 year contract. I think Lerner means well, but meaning well and doing well are entirely different things obviously.

[SoCalBrownsFan]

I just want to watch the Browns and not be embarrased every week/year.


I am like Danamal......and am done with going out of my way to watch the trainwreck that is the Browns. When they can play good and win consistently....I may get interested again. The Walrus is not really impressing me with his so-called genius......from the coach he hired to the lack of any free agent signings...to the lack at wr they didn't even try to address in FA....the list goes on and on.

The new battle cry of Browns fans everywhere..............

You Tube

[Riffer X]

Originally Posted by akronjoe

I have been a fan since 1964. I share in your history. yet since Marty was shoved out of town By Modell it has been mostly a legacy of sadness, since the Lerners took control it is has been a travesty.
I had the rare pleasure talking to a browns DB from the late 60s early 70s era and asked what brain aneurism caused the tailspin of horrific trades in 1970 as we dumped Kanicki, Warfield, Gregory, Ron Johnson, Bob Mathison, Marvin Upshaw, and received squat. the browns had a fire sale as the steelers were ascending. This player told me a former SPORTSWRITER was Modell's stooge GM killing this team.

Yet the Lerners make Model seem wizened in comparison.
1999: the ludicrous pronouncement thet the "49er braintrust" of carmen Policy and Dwight Clark were running the team..a friggin lawyer and a now car salesman were responsible for launching this team with a horrendous coach. they blew two entire years of extra picks and only a kicker remains.
Then the stooge pete garcia was responsible for his botched draft strategies at the bidding of the halfway house that was butch davis( he was fired from NC for the same crap).
Then the botched hires of yet another never before GM picking players for yet another never been a HC as these two blew three years and at the end where no better, even WORSE than the davis team they inherited.
Then Lerner added his coup de gras hiring a coach freshly fired and let him pick his stooge gm who conducted a draft and trades not seen since dwight Clark was GM.
This was after fans took to wearing paper bags and lerner vowed to "hire a top GM to do a thorough search for a coach...and he did the opposite. we suffered through the predictable result as kokinis kept his job for 4 months
Now the Holmgren era..
he has hired a solid GM as he has two good drafts..yet when it came to to choose HIS coach...what yardstick did he use. why did solid coaches not want to come to Cleveland? why did Holmgren end his search before the second round in the playoffs? Why did another coach with no previous HC experience was handed the job in the toughest division in the NFL?
How do we compete when we are outcoached AND outtalented each week. When will this end? Can anyone seriously believe we are better at year2 than year one? Is Shurmer better than Mangini?

The way this team has made decisions has been agonizing for the last dozen years.
Now they are evaluating McCoy, hillis looks gone and so does cribbs as this Coach resembles the same rigidity often a mistake for first time coaches: though shall not speak the TRUTH. Last night I saw this coach actually call one of his most creative games vs the Steelers...In the first half. then gone was hillis, gone was passing on first down, gone was the extra blocking kept in for mcCoy, sidelined was a seemingly healthy Cribbs..and the players ALMOST overcame bad coaching.
yet the defensive coaches chipped in. they chose to rarely Blitz an immobile Rothlisbergh the second half..Kind of Rob Ryan reverse reality.

I have little faith in this coach yet the front office bears responsibility for the rotten fruit of poor season. In pre season the front office stood pat on positions in DIRE need: secondary, RB, OLB, Oline, WR. we even sat when Denver dumped a top WR for a #6 choice.. Now we are told mcCoy is being "evaluated"
give a young QB no blocking, do not get adequate backups at RB, release a top blocking FB, get him no reliable wrs and make delusional pronouncements about the readiness of of a corp that leads the NFL in drops, add in petty skirmishes with top players and keeping them sidelined or out of the gameplan and you see how much of a chance this kid has had.

I evaluate where this team is now.
Loyalty of fans- A++++
Level of competence of the GM on Draft day= B+
Level of competence of the GM in free agency when assessing the teams needs in free agency and getting help for critical need= F-----
Level Of Competence when Holmgren spoke of jake delhomme as a top QB= F---
Speaking of Tony Pahos as a top RT F-,
releasing all manginis assistants( Top special teams, and rob Ryan)
Hiring a HCV with no previous experience who is a poor game day F----

Why did no top Coaches WANT to interview for the Browns?
Why did the browns front office make the hiring of Ryan/seely a priority?
next year will be year 3 of Holmgren and i see this team no further along than year one. with MORE talent this team is less competetive.

I dare say if you let the PLAYERS call their own game the last 3 contests they would be far better off than the limited coaching (leadership)..
There is NO LEADERSHIP from this Coach and I see hillis, mcCoy, and cribbs as scapegoats.
Finally, down 7-3 with 3 minutes left on The Steeler 10 YL, you reinsert a QB who may have sustained one of the most brutal dirty hits i have ever seen( harrison should serve a FOUR game suspension immediately, if Suh gets two for namby pamby kick, Harrission who has a history of dirty violent play should get four.)
This Coach reinsert a QB who probably had sustained a concussion and he leaves no extra blocking as the steelers force him into a rash int.
That says all i want to Know about Shurmer, who know any better about the readiness of mccoy than any of us because he never speaks to the kid.
POOR LEADERSHIP!!!!!
but key players will be scapegoated.
And holmgren: he has to back the ignorant choice he made has HC. This guy made his Bones as a HC and was fired as a GM and left a Seattle team in disarray due to his poor personnel moves. he is faring little better.

Who needs to be reevaluated? Holmgren and Shurmer.
had i been the head guy? I am not.
I would have picked a LEADER as HC, a guy a player once said who left the Browns
" he would have run through a wall for". But this Coach had too much independence for "hands off" Holmgren.
I would have made ROB RYAN HC and then get him a solid OC.
I like our GM and not much else.

One of the best posts ever, on any board. Simply epic!!

Thanks a lot Joe!

[Flugel]

I couldn't agree more with those pointing out how killer good Joe's post is. He had Riffer at Akron in the screen name before the reading even started. Who's kiddin who?

A-Joe, the rule here is if you're gonna make a post like that - you can't be a one and done. You gotta stick around and hangout with us here. That post you treated us to was the reason you don't ever want to ruin a good read on the overrated concept of speed reading. Our rules are REAL simple here. Basic man code 101: if you've got anything on your mind, don't hold it hostage - RUN it!

[Enigmatic Evil]

I will look at this basic question: What has change done for me?

First the positives: I think change has brought us a better defense, yeah there's a lot of the same ol' same ol' but a lot of the same old personnel problems haven't really been addressed on our LB corps, DQJ was like, the last draft pick (minus Maiava) that we made in that corps, otherwise it's been a free agent merry-go-round.

DL Is finally getting some TLC and what do we have? A DE who's busted out beyond our expectations IMO, and two big men in the mdidle, we really need someone who can generate pressure on the opposite side of the line and we would see a lot of improvement alone right there.

Haden and Ward is the future of a great secondary, IMO.

Cons: Virtually everything else. People have made their minds up about Colt, I've made mine up about Shurmur... (Just as I had of Mangini after one year...) and I'm close to making my mind up on managment IMO. Whenever they do something "right" the team as a whole, franchise and all seems to take two steps backwards doing whatever.

The whole ring of honor incident, (I just think pissing off Jim Brown looked bad, even if the dude's nuts, he's one of the greatest ever to wear Brown and Orange.) for one comes to mind, WTF is up with Haskell? Dunno but Lerner's cool with him earning a paycheck so I guess I should be too right?

This season has been a bitter pill of reality to swallow and ironically it was a bitter pill that many of us suspected w/ the "learning curve" year of rookie QB/HC offensive personnel and defensive personnel yet here we are with 3 games left and its almost like we're ready to pass around the sepuku sword...

[mikeyP]

Continuity for the sake of continuity isn't a good thing.

Shurmur is incompetent. Like A-Joe said. Keep the GM and clear house.