Walrus Thread

[Greythan]

Who knows if we need one, but the more I ruminate on his press conference the more disappointed I get.

And, as usual, Terry Pluto "get's it":

Sorry, Mike Holmgren, some of problems are your doing

Published: Thursday, December 15, 2011, 11:06 PM Updated: Friday, December 16, 2011, 7:41 AM

By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer



Mark Duncan, Associated Press

Browns President Mike Holmgren needs to realize that some of his decisions have caused some of the Browns' problems this season.

Dear Mike Holmgren:

You need to understand a few things about Cleveland and Browns fans.
It starts with the fact that not everyone is against you.

Most fans and members of the media would prefer the Browns to be successful -- and for you and your staff to be the guys who, indeed, turned around this pathetic franchise.

And it has been pathetic since 1990. That includes the end of the old Browns and the start of the new Browns in 1999. In that span, there have been one playoff victory and two playoff appearances.

That's only three winning seasons since 1990.

No one is holding you responsible for the decades of losing or the move to Baltimore.
But, Mike, your quarterback was flattened. He was not given a concussion test. When the NFL, along with the players union, comes to town to investigate, that isn't looking for a reason to rip the Browns.

It's a problem.

When your medical staff didn't see Colt McCoy whacked with a helmet-to-helmet hit by James Harrison, that may not be their fault because they were working on other injured players.

But there were the coaches on the sidelines. There were coaches in the press box (who did see the replay of the vicious Harrison hit). But no one said, "Hey, someone better check out McCoy"?

Someone should have said something, because enough people with your team, indeed, saw the frightening hit.

You are absolutely right that Pat Shurmur is "a good man," and your coach would never send a player with a concussion back into the game. He has held out several players with that injury this season, including two (Ben Watson and Owen Marecic) in the game at Pittsburgh. He can only operate on the information coming from the medical staff.

But when it came to making sure the right people had the right information, there was a problem.

Understanding frustration But this letter is not meant to dwell on McCoy.
It is for you to understand the frustration of the fans -- and to admit you have made mistakes in your two years here that have contributed to it.

One of them was keeping Eric Mangini as coach in 2010.

Your exact quote was: "I made a decision on the first year [2010] on why I treated the first year a certain way. I'm not looking back, or have any regrets about that. This is like the second first year. . . . You can say, 'You wasted a year.' We know that now, I suppose you could say that now, but at the time? No. I don't regret the decision I made."

If you were a fan, how would you feel about that statement coming from the leader of your favorite team?

Your view of football is the complete opposite of the game coached by Mangini -- from offense to defense to special teams.

You knew that, the moment you took the job. There was no way he would survive, just as it was inevitable that you would bring in a coaching disciple such as Shurmur. He is the third head coach here in the past four years.

You mentioned, "We're implementing a new system, new coach, new young quarterback, all those things that you've heard before, but they're real. That's real."

Yes, it is.

Just as it's painful for fans to hear, "This is like a second first year," because it wasn't necessary.

Pointing that out is not about "being against" you. It's just a fact.

Then there was this outburst: "When it [winning] does happen, don't come to me for extra tickets to a playoff game or something. Don't do that. You're either with us or you're not. I'm telling you, it's different now."

Mike, you've been around long enough to know that when you talk to the media (and fans), they are not working for you. You were just venting out of frustration, much like your fan base.

Painful offense You also oversold the value of the West Coast offense. No one expected the Browns to become the Packers of today, or your era. Or even the Browns of Brian Sipe and Bernie Kosar.

But your team is averaging 13.9 points a game. That compares with 16.7 and 15.9 in the offensively challenged Mangini years. It's the worst since 2000, when the second-year expansion Browns averaged 10.1 points.

You said, "If we would have just been able to snap the damn ball and catch a few more passes. We've dropped too many passes and we had trouble with snapping the ball. If you just do those two things a little bit better, and maybe people get off that same old thing."

But the bad snaps and several other aspects of the special teams have been poor. And your team leads the league in dropped passes, despite your claims that the West Coast offense would help the receivers.

It is fair to criticize the offense, in terms of talent and strategy.

You explained, "It's a frustration for me, too, when you have to win a game 14-13, or 10-7, or whatever, but the fact is, that's where we are right now, that's not where we're always going to be."

Let's hope so.

Mike, this is not about wanting you replaced. It's not about General Manager Tom Heckert, who does show promise, in terms of drafting.

Nor is it about changing head coaches . . . again . . . although you need to look at the makeup of the staff.

It is about admitting that your second season has been rockier than your first, and some of your decisions have led to that.

[next2nothing]

I'm expecting him to jump ship when next year is along the same lines as this year.

[DieselPusher]

it's also about not stepping up and being the vocal face of the team throughout the season, not waiting for a major issue like the Mccoy incident to happen and then only speak

we were used to or expected him to be the face of the browns this year and he seemed to publicly disappear until today

[golfer704u]

Pluto has always understood, another good article

[hammertime]

Hmmm.. An article stating the Browns suck, have sucked and need to get better??

Captivating and unoriginal.

Although i do agree with the last paragraph.



Mike, this is not about wanting you replaced. It's not about General Manager Tom Heckert, who does show promise, in terms of drafting.

Nor is it about changing head coaches . . . again . . . although you need to look at the makeup of the staff.

It is about admitting that your second season has been rockier than your first, and some of your decisions have led to that.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by hammertime

Hmmm.. An article stating the Browns suck, have sucked and need to get better??

Captivating and unoriginal.

Although i do agree with the last paragraph.



Mike, this is not about wanting you replaced. It's not about General Manager Tom Heckert, who does show promise, in terms of drafting.

Nor is it about changing head coaches . . . again . . . although you need to look at the makeup of the staff.

It is about admitting that your second season has been rockier than your first, and some of your decisions have led to that.

I actually don't disagree with any of that in reality. While I said he should be fired for his statemenet about "being with us". I more meant if that's his attitude, then he should leave, because he's not understanding the fans and what it means to be a Cleveland Brown.

But Pluto's real point is that it's silly that Holmgren Heckert and Shurmur don't want to admit thier mistakes. That they want to blame previous regimes and expect everyoen to genuflect before them because they are "different than before".

You seem happy to kneel at their alter unquestionably. Some of us aren't.

[Greythan]

Originally Posted by hammertime

Hmmm.. An article stating the Browns suck, have sucked and need to get better??

Congrats! You've failed Reading Comprehension 101.

[hiwaygal]

I would LOVE to know some of the details of Holmgren's contract...like what is the term.

I don't think Holmgren came here with the intent to leave the Browns in a worse position than they were in. Which means he's not a guy with bad intentions.

However, Holmgren has most definitely made some bad decisions. Personally, I think it's because he doesn't have a clue about the team, it's history, our division, our rivals...about Midwestern style football. He's learning, but he's also trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and is pissed that anyone is questioning him.

Ultimately Holmgren may or may not succeed. But he will leave Cleveland as a very wealthy man. And he will not look back.

Hopefully we will be able to wish him well...but right now a lot of fans may just warn him about that proverbial screen door.

[TexBrown]

Its obvious that Colt McCoy can take a hit. But thats it, look at how he runs the game....pittiful! RG3 is coming

[hiwaygal]

Ummm...welcome Tex...

but WTH does your post have to do with this thread??


LOL!

[hammertime]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

I actually don't disagree with any of that in reality. While I said he should be fired for his statemenet about "being with us". I more meant if that's his attitude, then he should leave, because he's not understanding the fans and what it means to be a Cleveland Brown.

But Pluto's real point is that it's silly that Holmgren Heckert and Shurmur don't want to admit thier mistakes. That they want to blame previous regimes and expect everyoen to genuflect before them because they are "different than before".

You seem happy to kneel at their alter unquestionably. Some of us aren't.

Oh beleive me, i haven't signed up at some Holmgren Church where kneeling is required.

I don't have a membership card for the Shurmer fan club. I don't even have any Heckert apparell.

I just don't have a sharpened pitchfork in my hands either. Standing back and trying to look at the big picture, i see some mistakes and some poor learning curves. I'm not seeing anything malicous or an egomania gone wild.

Do i think the Browns will get better?? I always think that.

Did i think RAC was a dud? Yes.
Did i think Mangini was a dud. Not at all.

This board is getting overrun with contempt for anything pro-Holmgren/Shurmer/Heckert.

I joke about the 'haters' in jest cause i know we all want to win.
Hasn't been but a few positive posts or threads lately and the same old thing is spewed over and over again in many of the current threads.

Bannings of posters? remind us of anywhere? i'll slink away now to the Arcade section for some fun. peace.

[hiwaygal]

hammer the banning you are referring to happened awhile ago and had nothing to do with the current issues being discussed

Yes there is a lot of negativity here, it's a symptom, of course, of the current status of our team.

But anyone is welcome to post a new thread about the positives.