I would not draft a QB early

[Neo]

I know what you guys are thinking "Not another quarterback thread" The only way I draft a QB this year with our #1 pick is if Luck slides all the way down to where we are picking, I would not trade up to get him. I don't care who else is out there, we HAVE TOO MANY NEEDS! We need receivers, we need offensive lineman, we need linebackers, we could use another stud DE across from Sheard, and we still don't know what the furture holds for us a running back. Too many holes to fill to justify drafting anybody not named Luck in the first.

If we go QB in the the first, I will severely be disappointed and just may be done with the Browns for good. I am sick of watching this organization destroying quarterbacks because the refuse to put a good TEAM together before they get their quarterback. Not only do we lack depth, but we lack starters all over the place. I think Heckert is laying the foundation, but it is far from being complete.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Neo

I know what you guys are thinking "Not another quarterback thread" The only way I draft a QB this year with our #1 pick is if Luck slides all the way down to where we are picking, I would not trade up to get him. I don't care who else is out there, we HAVE TOO MANY NEEDS! We need receivers, we need offensive lineman, we need linebackers, we could use another stud DE across from Sheard, and we still don't know what the furture holds for us a running back. Too many holes to fill to justify drafting anybody not named Luck in the first.

If we go QB in the the first, I will severely be disappointed and just may be done with the Browns for good. I am sick of watching this organization destroying quarterbacks because the refuse to put a good TEAM together before they get their quarterback. Not only do we lack depth, but we lack starters all over the place. I think Heckert is laying the foundation, but it is far from being complete.

Thanks for the post Neo. Hey, if we're always talking about it or airing concerns about it - how can we tell you to post about anything different before we inevitably resume discussing the most important position to winning football gamers?

I'll piggyback on your main point. Look no further than the St Louis Rams and Bradford at #1 overall as Holmgren inquired what it would take for a trade. We got the SAME guy in late round 3. Teams in the AFC North play Defenses and schemes the Big 12 has never even heard of. If we traded future high round picks to land Bradford, it's some scary shit to think of how much worse we could define FUBAR in Cleveland.

Now that we don't have anyone looking at Matt Barkley like he's as sexy as Heidi Kluhm - I can refer to him by name. I WORRY he's more of a system beneficiary of the throwing rainbows and jump balls to the highest rated WRs entering the Pac 10 out of high school than coming here where we can't even protect short and quick 3 step drops with our OGs while Greg Little can't catch anything with his hands. If h has a career day today - put it in perspective as him dominating game reps with our league leading drops.

I feel like we can be in position for RGIII without trading while we still have another first round pick for a play-maker. Previous conversations alluded to we wouldn't need to RACE the kid into action, which would buy McCoy a 3rd swing in the batter's box just as Drew Brees got a 4th swing when SD Management and fans scapegoated him. Good thing too because the hotshot QB they drafted held out; and new receiving targets like McCardell and Gates represented a removal of handcuffs. While I want McCoy to get a REAL chance with OGs that CAN protect up to snuff and Receivers that can CATCH and have scoring gears, we need to have a legit upside here challenging him for the right to play the most important position. We can't be careless in giving up ALL chances to HELP a young QB in the process so I don't want to trade up for Luck or Barkley. Take Luck for instance, he only had 3 INTs BEFORE his top WR Iwusu/Owusu (whatever) got a head trauma sidelining him for the final 4-5 games. THEN, he was throwing exclusively to TEs and RBs, not because he SUCKED. Because that's pretty much the difference between Stanford and USC so he made the best of throwing to lesser gears and his INT volume doubled/tripled while his stats diluted to the point of outsiders asking - "what happened to Luck?" What they should be asking was could Barkley or RGIII do any better throwing to TE gears exclusively? That kind of renders a strong cannon downfield pretty meaningless. And here's where I can say "Welcome to our world" to any promising QB entering this culture shock of a lifetime.

I have a thread of the 3 AP All American Teams for those that want go Dear Santa. We might want to make sure Santa Claus knows where Cleveland, Ohio is. Some of his ancestors back in the 40s and 50s knew exactly where it was located. It's possible his mapquest or other navigation system is messing up and pointing to Cincy. They got the OC that has at least 2 braincells on speaking terms while they have a pot of gold at the end of every rainbow thrown.

[NW Ohio Brownie]

I agree, but two things.

First, if we pursue a Matt Flynn in free agency that would obviously tip our hand moving forward about the QB position. I don't think Colt's the guy but I also don't think our skill players will make the next guy any better either. Which means if we are going to sign a Matt Flynn or draft a QB high then we better do EVERYTHING we can to bring in legit playmakers.

Second, by pursuing a Matt Flynn in free agency we might make our #5/6 overall pick that much more coveted by another team in the top ten who really wants Barkley (Jax, Mia). By trying and missing out on a free agent QB such as Flynn it might make teams a few spots down from us get a little jumpy and give us a few more picks to move up and get Barkley. Then we can add some picks and still choose in the top ten and get the guys we want.

That is obviously a huge stretch but I have no doubt Heckert still wants to find a way to accumulate a few more choices in the '12 draft especially with no 3rd round choice this year. Should be interesting.

[Enigmatic Evil]

I agree that we shouldn't DRAFT a QB early, if we take a flier on a mid-round pick (Like McCoy himself) then go for it. I would hate to see this team quit on Colt but that seems more, and more, like what's going to happen. A guy like Flynn would make sense to me. BUT without legitimate play makers, Matt Flynn's going to look like end-of-the-career Jeff George (Without the rocket arm).

We NEED a wide receiver who knows what the hell he is doing, be it a veteran that can HELP the young WR's on this team or a rookie with LEGITIMATE skill, not just flash and potential.

Like Neo said, we need OLine help, we need WR help, hell if Hillis is done in the Brown and Orange we will need a damn HB too... I'm done with Pachos, I say at least 3 new starters on offense and I would like to see us get a couple through the draft (RT, maybe WR?) but thats of course not up to me. A lot of rumbling the Browns are serious about looking for a QB which makes me just shake my head. I don't think Colt is the bane of this team at all.

The fact that Management and all of us seem to be watching completely different games has been established already though.

[OconRecon]

I still like the mock draft where we take Michael Floyd and that Iowa OT. ProFootball Focus has JT ranked #1 in pass protection - check, Thomas is good and a keeper. And they have Pashos #6 - so what, he's an old blob who rarely stays healthy.

I'm hoping for a stud O lineman and a ball hawking WR who's not afraid to block is ass off.

But here's my real fear. Shurmur doesn't grow as a play caller and an HC. There's a reason the Niners are suddenly good and the Ravens are winning with Joe Flacco - the Harbaughs. Denver's OC totally reworked the offense in the middle of the season - coaching again.

We can all hope for this player or that, but my true concern is Shurmur (who will be here since Holmgren will support him for years) doesn't come around. If he does, we'll be fine. If he doesn't, then it doesn't matter who we draft.

[Enigmatic Evil]

I'm with you there Ocon, I have zero faith in Shurms to develop into even a mediocre HC... Holmgren's blind faith is assuring (since Shurms is HIS guy) but if Holmgren doesn't know when to cut the cord, it may be another fire sale here in Cleveland.

[Alo]

We've got two 1st round picks and plenty of cap space: I don't see why we couldn't take a QB at the top of the draft and still address our major needs.

Originally Posted by OconRecon

I still like the mock draft where we take Michael Floyd and that Iowa OT. ProFootball Focus has JT ranked #1 in pass protection - check, Thomas is good and a keeper. And they have Pashos #6 - so what, he's an old blob who rarely stays healthy.

I'm hoping for a stud O lineman and a ball hawking WR who's not afraid to block is ass off.

I love Floyd but wonder if his past alcohol issues will take him off the Browns' board. Holmgren got burned twice drafting guys with similar red flags (Koren Robinson, Jerramy Stevens). Hopefully, Floyd will convince teams that those problems are behind him.

[nickers]

Is it just Me?...or does Pat Shurmur have that same sorry ass look that Bud Carson had?...Albeit...Carson had a drinking problem...hmmm whats Shurmurs excuse?

[OconRecon]

Originally Posted by Alo

...I love Floyd but wonder if his past alcohol issues will take him off the Browns' board. Holmgren got burned twice drafting guys with similar red flags (Koren Robinson, Jerramy Stevens). Hopefully, Floyd will convince teams that those problems are behind him.

Yeah, 3 DUI's are a 100% legit concern and maybe a guaranteed greased slide down the board. I will say Kelly gave him a no-tolerance opportunity this season and he focused and produced without incident. But, the track record is still the track record. Cowherd always claims NFL money makes bad habits worse, and this is often true.

I'm not totally sold on McCoy, and I am pretty convinced he is far from an ideal situation with his band of second rate WR's and oft injured RB's, along with an HC who seems to be stuck in rut of predictability. Great coaches adapt the system to the talent they have. If McCoy is more comfortable in shotgun, then for Christ's sake, put him in shotgun.

And speaking of QB's, ten bucks says Wallace looks decent today. It would just be our luck. The pressure is off for Wallace and Shurmur today and I'm betting they do ok. Arizona's defense is ranked in the 20's and McCoy just faced three top 10 D's in a row, so it may just may come together for 20-30 points. Then, the top ten D's return with the Steelers and Ravens and voilą, we're off to months of QB debating.

=======

Addendum: I just realized the Ravens game next week is on Saturday. http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/sched.../schedule.html #ProgrammingNote

[Tobalaz]

Oh what I wouldn't give to get Justin Blackmon and an elite tackle in the first, then a de in the 2nd.
I don't want us to trade away picks to move up for a qb with all our holes on both sides of the ball, and with our glorious lack of offensive talent a high pick on a qb would be like taking a $25 a lb steak and tossing it into the grinder to make hamburgers.
And with the way Hillis and Hardesty have been dinged, another rb wouldn't hurt.

[hammertime]

Isn't that guy Luck gonna be in this draft?

I here he's one of the best in a long time. Maybe we should try and get that guy. It's not like we've got Steve Young or Vince young on the roster now.

If the price is right, you get the guy.

[Neo]

Originally Posted by Flugel

Thanks for the post Neo. Hey, if we're always talking about it or airing concerns about it - how can we tell you to post about anything different before we inevitably resume discussing the most important position to winning football gamers?

I'll piggyback on your main point. Look no further than the St Louis Rams and Bradford at #1 overall as Holmgren inquired what it would take for a trade. We got the SAME guy in late round 3. Teams in the AFC North play Defenses and schemes the Big 12 has never even heard of. If we traded future high round picks to land Bradford, it's some scary shit to think of how much worse we could define FUBAR in Cleveland.

Now that we don't have anyone looking at Matt Barkley like he's as sexy as Heidi Kluhm - I can refer to him by name. I WORRY he's more of a system beneficiary of the throwing rainbows and jump balls to the highest rated WRs entering the Pac 10 out of high school than coming here where we can't even protect short and quick 3 step drops with our OGs while Greg Little can't catch anything with his hands. If h has a career day today - put it in perspective as him dominating game reps with our league leading drops.

I feel like we can be in position for RGIII without trading while we still have another first round pick for a play-maker. Previous conversations alluded to we wouldn't need to RACE the kid into action, which would buy McCoy a 3rd swing in the batter's box just as Drew Brees got a 4th swing when SD Management and fans scapegoated him. Good thing too because the hotshot QB they drafted held out; and new receiving targets like McCardell and Gates represented a removal of handcuffs. While I want McCoy to get a REAL chance with OGs that CAN protect up to snuff and Receivers that can CATCH and have scoring gears, we need to have a legit upside here challenging him for the right to play the most important position. We can't be careless in giving up ALL chances to HELP a young QB in the process so I don't want to trade up for Luck or Barkley. Take Luck for instance, he only had 3 INTs BEFORE his top WR Iwusu/Owusu (whatever) got a head trauma sidelining him for the final 4-5 games. THEN, he was throwing exclusively to TEs and RBs, not because he SUCKED. Because that's pretty much the difference between Stanford and USC so he made the best of throwing to lesser gears and his INT volume doubled/tripled while his stats diluted to the point of outsiders asking - "what happened to Luck?" What they should be asking was could Barkley or RGIII do any better throwing to TE gears exclusively? That kind of renders a strong cannon downfield pretty meaningless. And here's where I can say "Welcome to our world" to any promising QB entering this culture shock of a lifetime.

I have a thread of the 3 AP All American Teams for those that want go Dear Santa. We might want to make sure Santa Claus knows where Cleveland, Ohio is. Some of his ancestors back in the 40s and 50s knew exactly where it was located. It's possible his mapquest or other navigation system is messing up and pointing to Cincy. They got the OC that has at least 2 braincells on speaking terms while they have a pot of gold at the end of every rainbow thrown.

That's some good stuff Tom, thanks for the post. That's a good point you made about Brees, and it also benefited Rivers having those legit receivers, LT, and that defense already in place when he took over. We just don't have any of that here for a young QB to work with.