Impact of Go To Guy

[Flugel]

17 of 35 for 235 yards 48.6 comp% 6.7 y/a 1 TD 0 INT

Those are the passing stats of a normally flawless QBwe know as Aaron Rodgers in the absence of Greg Jennings. One might say, Jordy Nelson is a stud and then there's a ton of good guys to fill in behind him. They would be right BUT with Jennings there, the 2nd best corner of the opponent takes on Jordy Nelson. If they face a team with injuries in the secondary, it gets even better for the Packers.

What else made a normally perfect QB so ho-hum? Guys like Jermichael Finley dropping passes on 3rd down meaning the punter's name in Green Bay was no longer a trivia question. Just 1 week of having that and the KC Chiefs through Kyle Orton and interim Head Coach Romeo Crennel were more than the Packers could handle. Just imagine putting all that in the face of a 2nd year QB on playbook #2 and you see Cleveland hasn't been a place for a young QB to succeed.

Having said all that, there's first round QBs like Hans Christian Ponderson, Sam "Healthy-as-Kennison" Bradford and Blaine Gabbertskies-Boller just making all the difference in the world with 2-12 and 4-10 records. Basically, that leaves St Louis, Minnesota and Jax competing with Indy for the very first pick of the 2012 draft. St Louis that drafted Sam Bradford first overall in 2010. Looks like never snagging a lead a to protect meant Robert Quinn wasn't such a brilliant idea for St Louis in 2011 either. Pass rushers are VERY important especially when/if the opponent needs to pass on you. Not the case in Cleveland or St Louis, so a better pick would have been a DE that can defend the run as well.

ANYWAY, I don't think Minnesota, St Louis, Jax or even Cleveland should give up on their hopefuls as much as I think they need to surround them with legit weapons. Having said that, these teams probably aren't going to get better shots at the picks of a litter so would it be so wrong to draft a QB to compete with them? Where it gets dicey is there's such a shortage of Peyton Mannings out there that by the time the 4th or 5th team selects - the projection of a QB often gets leapfrogged ahead of a lot of higher ranked prospects at other positions. If you read Riffer's post about Heckert's comments, this is part of the underlying message about all positions if you show up to a draft addressing need over the talent thing fate is putting at your door step. I saw a REALLY gifted DE named Ingram for South Carolina that could be an absolute game changer vrs the run and pass. There isn't anything powder blue about this guy's blue collar approach to run and pass.

My FAVORITE QB by far is Andrew Luck. Anyone that puts Stanford on the BCS map when they were always the Vanderbilt of the Pac 10 has a little Houdini and divine intervention in him. My previous intrigue for RGIII was we wouldn't have to give up all future drafts to get him had Barkely decided not to go the Leinart route and return to school to take pottery classes and drink funnels with the young ladies. Just kidding. He's probably a good kid. He's got the best underclassman receivers on the planet so I GET him wanting to return now that 1st round salaries aren't nearly as high as they used to be.

If we could land a WR like a Mike Wallace or a Greg Jennings, that might open MORE doors for our passing game than a young, inexperienced QB. I mean that in the sense of Greg Little not drawing the bets corner of every opponent. Let's see if he can become a Jordy Nelson to whoever might be our Greg Jennings. Besides, we already have Seneca Wallace because Santa Claus came early for a lot of our fans this year.

[golfer704u]

Great post and I agree. As much as I didn't want to draft Barkley. Him staying in school is actually my worst nightmare.

I worry that pushes us towards Richardson with the early pick since RGIII will now be gone. And I agree with you when you've said I don't like the idea of taking what was a strength and just re-tooling it back into a strength when we have so many weaknesses.

I then worry that the draft team will be thinking that having 2 #1 picks won't happen that often so this is the year they should consider a QB and we'll end up drafting the 4th or 5th best QB in the draft with our other 1st round pick. Picking up a WR late and adding some mid level vetaran WR and asking our new rookie QB to start his career driving an offense that is still missing 2 tires.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

Great post and I agree. As much as I didn't want to draft Barkley. Him staying in school is actually my worst nightmare.

I worry that pushes us towards Richardson with the early pick since RGIII will now be gone. And I agree with you when you've said I don't like the idea of taking what was a strength and just re-tooling it back into a strength when we have so many weaknesses.

I then worry that the draft team will be thinking that having 2 #1 picks won't happen that often so this is the year they should consider a QB and we'll end up drafting the 4th or 5th best QB in the draft with our other 1st round pick. Picking up a WR late and adding some mid level vetaran WR and asking our new rookie QB to start his career driving an offense that is still missing 2 tires.

Thanks Golfer! I loved your thinking and rationale. The young and restless Drew Brees once had LT as his only prong of attack. The GM in charge of diagnosis and treatment of a turbulent passing game experiencing growing pains of a young passer with the handcuffs of dismal surrounding talent, mis-diagnosed the REAL problem. He took a slew of inevitable symptoms and drafted a QB with the first overall pick when Brees was about to emerge as a Pro Bowl QB in his 4th season. Having said that, at least he had the where-with-all to add Keenan McCardell and Antonio Gates around the same time. Those 2 additions changed the attack prong sum of 1 (LT) to 3 legit attack prongs. In the same sense, adding the perimeter speed and jumping ability of Alvin Harper to the side opposite of Michael Irvin while players like Emmitt Smith and Moose Johnston were drafted changed the Aikman forecast considerably.

I get REALLY frustrated when people spend ALL of last year saying we need a legit #1 WR ONLY to turn around and tell us we have the Titanic; but McCoy is the glacier sinking it. Alot of YOUNG QBs going to bad teams get handcuffed. This is where you can ONLY hope and pray you have the right people in charge of personnel. FANS and MEDIA wanted their teams to QUIT on Steve Young, Troy Aikman, John Elway and Drew Brees. Tampa quit on Steve Young which explains why they never STOPPED drafting QBs in round 1 instead of truely diagnosing the RIGHT problem. ALL QBs need help and evidently this has recently become as extensive as Aaron Rodgers losing a matchup to Kyle Orton under the symptoms of dropped passes and their #1 WR (Jennings) getting injured.

FWIW, I've seen some Dalton Passes float and hang for their 6'4" superstar to come down with them in traffic. That's a luxury we're longing for. If that SAME arm strength was here - I'll guarantee it would be an issue since there's no AJ Green rendering it to don't worry about it status. Sipe's arm wasn't ANY stronger than McCoy's back when Blount could mug our WRs everywhere. He had Ozzie Newsome to rely on in traffic while the others were Dave Logan for jump balls, Reggie Rucker, Rickey Feacher and an older Paul Warfield for everything else. Just my opinion, but I don't think Sam Rutigliano was misunderstanding a Lake Erie climate enough to plan his late Octobers through December exclusively around the deep ball. And it didn't prevent an average of 4000 yards passing for a 3 year period back when it was unheard of.

[Greythan]

I don't think there's any chance we take a RB with our first pick. Honestly, I put the odds of that at near zero. Why?

First, our FO knows very well how the current NFL game has de-valued the notion of a franchise RB. The focus on passing, the use of tandem RB's, and the durability concern have changed the modern day NFL in this regard.

Second, we're running the WCO. As it actually becomes effective (we have to presume that for this argument), we'll be using short passes as a proxy for certain running plays other offenses would use. Again, devalues the notion of a feature back.

I think there is a bias for a skilled offensive player at either WR or QB with our first pick. But, I think the bias is only there if a player at those positions is considered "can't miss" by our FO. (I think Flug's was spot on about AJ Green last year in that Heckert knew that guy was a star and while he liked Jones he saw Green on his own, "can't miss" level.)

So, if Blackmon or RGIII or some yet-to-emerge-can't-miss WR/QB is there I think we'll take him. (Again, presuming Blackmon and RGIII are considered "can't miss" by our FO.)

Otherwise, I think an impact defensive player is possible with our first pick as is a trade down (again).

Draft is fun, but I really do wish for the day when I'm not talking about the draft before Christmas.

[Enigmatic Evil]

I think it's something that has the Browns desperate and we just have to hope that Holmgren isn't as QB crazy as Kim Kardashian is baby crazy.

Legitimately, Flugs, this is what a lot of us have been saying. Colt isn't the problem, the complete absence of anything for Colt to work with is the problem. This season, with sporadically healthy Hillis (even when Hillis has been healthy) our running game has been almost as horrible to watch as watching our defense trying to STOP the run...

Our best WR, Cribbs, seems to be black listed in the offensive framework at times. Greg Little had his best game in the NFL to date last week but he's not the future. He can grow into something but not without the coaching. Seneca Wallace's "veteran skills" weren't the answer there either... If we had someone who understood the WR position and could make plays on this team, yes our offense would look a lot better. Cribbs hasn't really done a whole lot when he was starting at WR either, but he runs better routes and has better hands than Litlte, IMO.

The O-Line... well it speaks for itself.

I don't really know much about the QB class but it seems to be Luck/RGIII or bust for first rd selection... If there isn't a QB there for us, DONT REACH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, take a WR/OL or even WR/HB in rd 1. draft a OL in rd 2, ... THREE MAJOR neeeds addressed. I'm veering off topic a bit.

When's the last time we had a go-to guy. Hillis was our go-to guy last year and we had flashes of being a competent offense. Hillis lost his chip on his shoulder and stopped running like he had something to prove, clinging to last year as a pedestal for his worth. Failing to understand that Football, like all major sports, is a "what have you done for me lately" kind of place.

If Colt had a go-to guy, I wonder how effective he truly would have been... our O-Line inconsistancies may be the most alarming detriment to this season's offensive results... no push, no resistance to protect Colt... its been dire.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Greythan

I don't think there's any chance we take a RB with our first pick. Honestly, I put the odds of that at near zero. Why?

First, our FO knows very well how the current NFL game has de-valued the notion of a franchise RB. The focus on passing, the use of tandem RB's, and the durability concern have changed the modern day NFL in this regard.

Second, we're running the WCO. As it actually becomes effective (we have to presume that for this argument), we'll be using short passes as a proxy for certain running plays other offenses would use. Again, devalues the notion of a feature back.

I think there is a bias for a skilled offensive player at either WR or QB with our first pick. But, I think the bias is only there if a player at those positions is considered "can't miss" by our FO. (I think Flug's was spot on about AJ Green last year in that Heckert knew that guy was a star and while he liked Jones he saw Green on his own, "can't miss" level.)

So, if Blackmon or RGIII or some yet-to-emerge-can't-miss WR/QB is there I think we'll take him. (Again, presuming Blackmon and RGIII are considered "can't miss" by our FO.)

Otherwise, I think an impact defensive player is possible with our first pick as is a trade down (again).

Draft is fun, but I really do wish for the day when I'm not talking about the draft before Christmas.

I dsagree what our FO won't draft a RB in the 1st round. Why? because IF they let HIllis go in this offseason, THAT will be the biggest news of the offseason. and IF they DON'T draft a RB to relpace him that's a big name, everyone will be questioning them and they know it. Unfortunately I wish I could believe this FO will draft regardless what the media and fans even me think. I just don't think they'll do it.

They will draft Richardson as if to say "see we had a plan to not only replace Hillis all along, but this guy is an upgrade over him".

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil

I think it's something that has the Browns desperate and we just have to hope that Holmgren isn't as QB crazy as Kim Kardashian is baby crazy.

Legitimately, Flugs, this is what a lot of us have been saying. Colt isn't the problem, the complete absence of anything for Colt to work with is the problem. This season, with sporadically healthy Hillis (even when Hillis has been healthy) our running game has been almost as horrible to watch as watching our defense trying to STOP the run...

Our best WR, Cribbs, seems to be black listed in the offensive framework at times. Greg Little had his best game in the NFL to date last week but he's not the future. He can grow into something but not without the coaching. Seneca Wallace's "veteran skills" weren't the answer there either... If we had someone who understood the WR position and could make plays on this team, yes our offense would look a lot better. Cribbs hasn't really done a whole lot when he was starting at WR either, but he runs better routes and has better hands than Litlte, IMO.

The O-Line... well it speaks for itself.

I don't really know much about the QB class but it seems to be Luck/RGIII or bust for first rd selection... If there isn't a QB there for us, DONT REACH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, take a WR/OL or even WR/HB in rd 1. draft a OL in rd 2, ... THREE MAJOR neeeds addressed. I'm veering off topic a bit.

When's the last time we had a go-to guy. Hillis was our go-to guy last year and we had flashes of being a competent offense. Hillis lost his chip on his shoulder and stopped running like he had something to prove, clinging to last year as a pedestal for his worth. Failing to understand that Football, like all major sports, is a "what have you done for me lately" kind of place.

If Colt had a go-to guy, I wonder how effective he truly would have been... our O-Line inconsistancies may be the most alarming detriment to this season's offensive results... no push, no resistance to protect Colt... its been dire.

Well said EE! And I DO think there's quite a few of our fans that GET the QB position and what's necessary to succeed. I'm a BIG fan of of seeing an investment through by taking every measure to honor the decision made to go in that direction. Bringing a QB here to sentence him to quick throws (from 3 step drops) behind dismal pass protection from the OGs for the first 8 weeks and having WRs that can't catch, separate or run the right routes hasn't been a blessing either. During our SF matchup, Fouts was actually finding a politcally correct way to complain about no routes downfield for the 1st 3 quarters while we continued to run slants into the traffic jams of 9-11 men in the box such a game plan was inviting. Gee, why attempt a swing pass or wheel route outside of that? If you're QB sentenced to that without ANY latitude to call an audible is like having an ambitious Dr Kevorkian calling plays for a QB involuntarily entering a career suicide. Any wonder why one of the 2 deep passes all day went for a TD when it was aimed at Cribbs while the other one to Little was intercepted by a 5'10" corner that jumped while the WR did not? Even worse, there was no separation so all we got treated to was "SEE, I told you it's a weak arm!"

[Sez.EJ]

I agree we need that go to #1 guy. I think Greg Little could be crazy-good as a #2 once he learns the postion. Much like Anquan Boldin was in AZ with Fitz on the other side.. he was a beast. Little has that power in him too..Boldin is just average as a #1 but when he had Fitz sucking up the double teams.. WOW!. I hope we can find that guy in the draft. I don't think there are many #1's going to be available in free agency... but there is AMAZING talent in the F/A ranks among the #2,3,4 guys.. and a lot of up and comers. I am hoping we dip into both areas to bolster the WR corps. Some REAL experience would make a big difference..even if it's at the #2,3,4 spots.

[Enigmatic Evil]

Honestly we have next to nothing, you gotta bring in a FA or maybe even 2 to compete for roster spots, nobody on this team should have a spot handed to them, we should bring in a rookie and a vet, maybe 2 vets, you got those 3 and Cribbs/Little/MoMass fighting for the depth chart in the pre season. None of those three should get anything handed to them.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil

Honestly we have next to nothing, you gotta bring in a FA or maybe even 2 to compete for roster spots, nobody on this team should have a spot handed to them, we should bring in a rookie and a vet, maybe 2 vets, you got those 3 and Cribbs/Little/MoMass fighting for the depth chart in the pre season. None of those three should get anything handed to them.

I'd still put Norwood ahead of MoMass

[Flugel]

Great discussion guys - excellent points coming from everyone.

[Greythan]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

I dsagree what our FO won't draft a RB in the 1st round. Why? because IF they let HIllis go in this offseason, THAT will be the biggest news of the offseason. and IF they DON'T draft a RB to relpace him that's a big name, everyone will be questioning them and they know it. Unfortunately I wish I could believe this FO will draft regardless what the media and fans even me think. I just don't think they'll do it.

They will draft Richardson as if to say "see we had a plan to not only replace Hillis all along, but this guy is an upgrade over him".

Well, I hadn't accounted for the completely illogical.

It would be vintage Browns to let a player go via FA who is at least a better-than-average player for his position only to cast that same position into the "need" category going into the draft.