The REALITY of the GREAT QB

[DawgFan]

Lot's of people are talking the need for a great QB, but when we look at the stats that say a 50% success rate in drafting them, suddenly the term "great" seems to take a bit of a downgrade.

To me, a GREAT QB is a guy that can and does single-handedly carry a team multiple times a year. Doesn't mean pro-bowls or even super-bowls (voting and team play too much of a role in these), but it means this guy transcends the deficiencies on his team and leads them to victory.

Now, using that criteria, the list is somewhat dwindled:

Current QB's that make that grade:
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Ben Roethlisburger
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees

That is it. You have some nice guys out there in some of the younger guys, but do you really TRUST Eli Manning, Romo, Stafford, etc...to CARRY the team?

Going back 10 years you have:
Brett Favre

I now Kurt Warner played well, but he wasn't even drafted so he doesn't fit the qeustion.

Going back a bit further you get:
John Elway
Troy Aikman

And even further back you get:
Dan Marino
Steve Young

Beyond that is past 20 years, or outside of the MODERN era per se.

So, in the past 20 years, there have been a total of 8 QB's that could legitimately CARRY their teams. Sure, you had some nice players in Cunningham and others, but they didn't really CARRY their teams. Heck, even Aikman had so many weapons you could argue he didn't do it either.

That equates to well less than 25% of all 1st round (especially considering several of the above were after the 1st round) QB's are actually the SAVIOR!

My point is this, we as fans need to stop hoping to catch lightning in a bottle and start realizing that MOST winning teams do it with a TEAM concept and have pieces around the QB that elevate the QB's game and make winning that much easier.

If the Browns can add a few pieces on the OL, WR, LB, DE this year, the ability for Colt to win games will increase exponentially.

However, if we bring in another QB, even Luck, to the same situation, he will be able to add maybe a game or two in victories....UNTIL we add the very same pieces.

REALITY IS, QB's are very often only as good as the team that surrounds them. And waiting for the magical miracle worker just leaves you WAITING FOR NEXT YEAR!

[Sez.EJ]

Originally Posted by DawgFan

If the Browns can add a few pieces on the OL, WR, LB, DE this year, the ability for Colt to win games will increase exponentially.

However, if we bring in another QB, even Luck, to the same situation, he will be able to add maybe a game or two in victories....UNTIL we add the very same pieces.

Thank you thank you thank you! Best post in weeks!!!! (except for my posts lately saying about the same thing ha ha ha)

[Flugel]

Great post Dawgfan!

[Tobalaz]

All I can say is....
Brees looked like shit with just LT to play with but DA made a probowl throwing to K2 and Edwards. Hell, Peyton Manning looked like shit his first season (td/int ratio) but he had Faulk in his backfield and Harrison and Marcus Pollard to throw the ball to, plus a franchise LT Tarik Glenn who they had drafted the year before. Just 2 seasons before Manning was drafted Jim Harbaugh had the colts in the playoffs, then they tanked 97 (*cough*injuries*cough* sound familiar?) and drafted Manning.
Joe Montana and Steve young were 2 of the best qbs I've ever seen, and both played with loaded rosters. Elway had one of the best offensive lines in the league along with Shannon Sharp, Terrel Davis, Ed McCaffrey and Rod Smith.
Ben Rape'n'burger walked onto a loaded roster, Jerome Bettis, Heinz Ward, Antwan Randel'El and Heath Miller. Remember how good Tommy Maddox looked running that O?
I'm not saying we shouldn't draft a REAL qb, what I'm saying is you can't have one until there's enough around them for them to become one. There is no such thing as a magic quarterback that takes a 12 year loser to a Superbowl overnight, it never has happened and never will.

I'm scared because all I see is a revolving door of quarterbacks who keep getting fed to the grinder with little to no supporting talent and then some people and a lot of the media wonder "WHY?!" then demand we draft a nice shinny new qb like it's going to be the lightning in a bottle this putrid franchise needs to turn it around in one year THEN go back to wondering WHY every time the new guy fails.
REALLY?

[mikeyP]

Drew Brees turned a 3-13 Saints team into 10-6 playoff contenders in one year.

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

I would actually take 2 QBs off that list. Many think Luck can be the next great QB. If our FO thinks so, they need to do whatever it takes to get him, because to your point ...they are a rare commodity.


Here's the thing ...while I am normally 100% in the OPs camp ...if you feel a Luck or a RGII is the answer, and many say this years crop of QBs is very strong, there's something to be said about rolling the dice when you are only a #1 WR, a RT, and a QB away from having a pretty darned good offense. (as well as maybe a new coach, and a new scheme)

Then again, if our FO starts getting rid of guys like Hillis, creating more new holes to fill then I guess we are a little farther away.

This might be the year you go all in on your QB of the future.

[Tobalaz]

Originally Posted by mikeyP

Drew Brees turned a 3-13 Saints team into 10-6 playoff contenders in one year.

So an established qb that was already hot who was a FA, not drafted by that team, came in with an entirely new coaching staff, half the defensive starters and a new offensive weapon and Brees gets all the credit?
The Saints already had a good line, good running back (Deuce!) and top tier WR (remember Horn?).
ALSO...
It wasn't like there wasn't any talent on that team, remember, 2004 they were a playoff team before Brees waltzed on in in 2006.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by mikeyP

Drew Brees turned a 3-13 Saints team into 10-6 playoff contenders in one year.

...... Nevermind that Sean Payton flipped 60% of the roster in year one but okay, somehow Drew Brees did that all by himself.

[mikeyP]

Joe Horn was a good not great WR. Same with Deuce. Tell me honestly Drew Brees isn't the reason the Saints were where they were in '06 and a huge part of their SB win and currently stature.

If that's your opinion then fine, but I'd laugh a little if we were having a conversation and you give Payton all the credit.

I don't care if he came from F/A (the place where a lot of you don't want to sign people) or from the draft. QB's can be a difference maker.

And then some QB's can need to wait until they have the perfect situation to excel.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by mikeyP

Joe Horn was a good not great WR. Same with Deuce. Tell me honestly Drew Brees isn't the reason the Saints were where they were in '06 and a huge part of their SB win and currently stature.

If that's your opinion then fine, but I'd laugh a little if we were having a conversation and you give Payton all the credit.

I don't care if he came from F/A (the place where a lot of you don't want to sign people) or from the draft. QB's can be a difference maker.

And then some QB's can need to wait until they have the perfect situation to excel.

He's not giving Peyton all the credit, he's just making the correct correlation that it wasn't all Drew Brees either.

And also the point with Drew Brees was. He didn't imediately make the Chargers winners when he was a rookie did he? Maybe his game evolved a little? Now you can have the opinion that Colt McCoy's game will never evolve to that level. But to make a one line statement that some how because Drew Brees made the Saints into a winner is some how a direct correlation to proof that if we just Upgrade the QB position by drafting one or bringin in a FA we will be a winner is pretty silly.

[mikeyP]

No but it goes to show people bailing on McCoy already, that it takes time and McCoy can be that good with confidence and some more weapons.

Look at Brees in 2006, he was really really good. Look at him now with 3 solid RB's, an amazing Tight End and a very ample and talent WR corps.

My entire point is this:

If Drew Brees didn't turn the Saints around and it was Payton who did... In year one... then why couldn't Shurmur do it? Why did Harbaugh do it so well in San Francisco and Payton in New Orleans?

Why is this Holmgren acolyte above scrutiny, even though he is beyond clueless on the sidelines?

You can't have it both ways. You can't say it wasn't Drew Brees, it was Payton. Then in another post (not you specifically), tell me it was Shurmur's first year blah blah blah.

If the head coach has that much to do with it and the QB doesn't then Shurmur should be fired and McCoy should be kept until he can develop fully.

[next2nothing]

Originally Posted by mikeyP

Why is this Holmgren acolyte above scrutiny, even though he is beyond clueless on the sidelines?

Many of us, myself included, have been scrutinizing Shurms since week 1. However the reality is that he isn't going to be fired and maybe he doesn't deserve to after year one. All I'll say is that he, along with the rest of the FO, better show some improvement this next season or a lot of fans are going to say bye to this team.