Irsay GETS IT, Why can't Lerner?

[next2nothing]

Originally Posted by Flugel

In the process, they set an NFL record with 7 consecutive years with 12 wins or more in the regular season AFTER he led Buffalo on a path to 4 consecutive Superbowl Sundays and got Carolina to an NFC Championship in just their 2nd year of existence. That's one of the best front office resumes I've ever seen.

Polian is a guy who drafts a QB like Jim Kelly and finds a bunch of small school gems like Andre Reed, Don Beebe, Pete Metzlaars, Jeff Wright, Phil Hansen and Mark Kelso and many others. He also picks Peyton Manning over Ryan Leaf while the Cleveland Browns picked Tim Couch over Donovan McNabb, Spergon Wynn over Tom Brady, Scott Milanovich over Kurt Warner, Braylon Edwards over Aaron Rodgers, Kellen Winslow over Ben Roethlisberger. People need to understand the problem we have had to date aren't first round draft picks selecting themselves here - it's been the WRONG front office people in charge of finding the RIGHT players.

The Manning injury didn't help anyone in the franchise. The Kerry Collins idea turned out to be a bad year to bring a guy out of retirement during a lockout year when there were no OTAs or a chance to build preseason chemistry with brand new receivers he's never worked with and a new playbook. Even worse, a lot of Peyton's health disclosure didn't take place until REALLY late from a guy that has always answered the bell. That didn't help the planning process during a lockout year. I would think it's up to the coaching staff to know what backup between Curtis Painter and Dan Orlovsky gave them the best chance to win as early as Collins showed he had no gas left. Clearly, they guessed wrong on Painter.

I stand corrected, great stuff as always Flugs!

[lemosley01]

Originally Posted by next2nothing

I don't care about hiring the Polians honestly. If anything they kind of showed that they aren't as great at getting guys as people are led to believe, given that once Manning went down that team couldn't win more than 2 games. Not to say they aren't successful but there is something to be said about a team that loses one man and all of a sudden is the NFL's worst team.

What I was getting at more is the fact that Irsay, no matter how many years the Polians worked for him and the success that the Colts had over 10 years, knew it was time to dump them and did it. Lerner, who doesn't owe shit to Holmgren or Shurmur, will let this circus of a team go into next year and all we fans can do is pray that they somehow "get it".

I didn't see all negative but I really believe that all we're doing is delaying the inevitable. Holmgren and Shurmur won't last here and we'll be looking for a new HC, yet again.

Manning takes ALL of the snaps in practice. The FO can draft players, but they don't coach them up and make the decisions to give them practice and playing time. That there was no adequate backup is a result of Manning and the coaching staff.

I was wondering why they were let go - was there a fight over drafting Luck, and which side did Polian come down on?

[next2nothing]

Originally Posted by lemosley01

I was wondering why they were let go - was there a fight over drafting Luck, and which side did Polian come down on?

The Polians hadn't come out and said it but hinted big time at taking Luck. I'm just speculating but Manning and Irsay are really close and I wonder if Manning may have told him to not take a QB or he was done in Indy.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by lemosley01

I was wondering why they were let go - was there a fight over drafting Luck, and which side did Polian come down on?

The word coming down is Polian basically wanted Luck at this point and was willing to move on from Manning which we all knew. As Archie Manning said his son did NOT want Luck sitting in the wings and wasn't cool with none of this. Apparently Irsay lost his sack after gushing all over Luck all season and sided with Manning who basically wasn't on good terms with the Polians all season and got rid of the Polians.

IF that's the case look for Indy to be more than willing to move the #1 pick to keep Peyton happy.

[Solon16]

Originally Posted by King of Kings

That's some great, great stuff right there Tom. It truly is. You've clearly cut through the spin and the BS and got to the meat of the matter with the facts. The facts are there is noone better in the NFL when it comes to building a winning franchise from scratch as all three teams show. The facts are Bill Polian is the 2nd best GM in the NFL, 2nd only to Ozzie(I knock Colbert down more than a few pegs, not hard to draft and 'roid up rookies). Bill Polian is UNQUESTIONABLY a MASTER regarding WINNING in the AFC.

The reality is he drafts and he drafts well. Buffalo's success? I'll take it. Indy's? I'd GLADLY take a decade worth of 10-6 being a BAD season and 14-2 being the standard. I'd GLADLY take getting a QB that makes everyone around him better and demands excellence. I'd be ecstatic to have all of that. Apparently others wouldn't. Apparently others would rather try to tear down what is to make our unlovable losers appear better than they are. If I had to boil it all down, though? Bill Polian: 6 Superbowls. Holmgren: 3. Heckert: 1. Neither one is in his league. Both put together can't even match him. Polian is wayyyyy up at the top with the Colbert's, Jimmy Johnson's, Belichicks and Tom Landry's when it comes to building rosters. H&H are down with the Phil Savage's and Matt Millen's of the NFL when it comes to trying to build a roster, FACT. They live off Ron Wolf and Andy Reids hard work, Bill Polians speaks for itself.

Sorry Brother but Ted Thompson and Kevin Colbert are the best! Billy B is very close 3rd...no one in history has worked the draft better than billy B! His picks somewhat suspect tho!

[lemosley01]

Originally Posted by King of Kings

The word coming down is Polian basically wanted Luck at this point and was willing to move on from Manning which we all knew. As Archie Manning said his son did NOT want Luck sitting in the wings and wasn't cool with none of this. Apparently Irsay lost his sack after gushing all over Luck all season and sided with Manning who basically wasn't on good terms with the Polians all season and got rid of the Polians.

IF that's the case look for Indy to be more than willing to move the #1 pick to keep Peyton happy.

Then we better be moving heaven and earth to get that #1 pick.

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

It almost sounds like it may be the other way around. Irsay is drooling over the prospect of having another Manningesque QB for the next decade.

Strangely enough, Manning, whose season-ending neck injury and subsequent surgeries sent the Colts down the path to the No. 1 pick, was meeting with Bill Polian when Polian was summoned away for a meeting with Irsay on Monday afternoon.

"I was stunned, I was surprised, I was saddened and just disappointed that it all happened this way," Manning told ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen by telephone. "I was actually meeting with Bill in the training room and we were talking about my rehab schedule, what I could and couldn't do in the facility under the new (collective bargaining agreement) and my checkpoints when he was summoned to see Irsay. He actually chuckled and said, 'We'll see.' "

Manning said he and Polian later had a very emotional meeting when the quarterback learned that the man who drafted him with the No. 1 pick in 1998 had been let go.

"Bill and I and Chris Polian has been here the whole time, too, had a great ride with tremendous highs and it makes me very sad that this ends on such a negative note," said Manning. "I knew when the Colts hired Bill with his track record in Buffalo and Carolina, that I would be very happy to be a part of an organization he ran. And that proved to be true. I knew he would hire the best coaches, provide the best possible surroundings, give me great teammates and he did that and I will be forever indebted to him."

Since making Manning the top overall selection, the Colts have celebrated 141 regular-season wins, 11 playoff appearances, six division titles, two AFC championships and one Super Bowl title. During that span, there have been only three head coaches, two offensive coordinators and one family making the personnel moves.

"I used to think nobody hated losing more than I did or was more miserable after a loss. I decided it was a tie between me and Bill," Manning told Mortensen. "And I stay in the building pretty late and he was always here working, too. Personally, my goodness, so many thoughts. He was one of the last guys to leave my wedding with Ashley (his wife). This is very, very tough."


But without its franchise quarterback and star player at the helm this season, the losses came in bunches for Indianapolis.

"I felt that it was time for a change, that there was a need for a change," Irsay said Monday, flanked by his three daughters. "Bill had entered a role where he was less involved, but still quite a bit involved because of the lockout and Peyton's injury and the losing streak. He was around a lot more than he probably anticipated or I did. But it really was a question about both situations. I thought that it was time to change the personnel department on the football side of things that wasn't involved with the coaching."

Bill Polian declined to comment when The Associated Press contacted him by phone, but did issue a statement through the team.

"I'm grateful for all the support the fans have shown us in good times and bad," Polian said. "Indianapolis has been a wonderful place to live and work. Most of all, I would like to thank the players coaches and staff who have played the pivotal role in this magnificent journey. I will miss them all."

In the end, it was the Polians' inability to find a suitable backup for Manning that doomed the Colts.

With Manning struggling to come back from May surgery on his neck, Indy brought 17-year veteran Kerry Collins out of retirement in late August with a $4 million contract. He didn't last a month.

Collins was replaced by Curtis Painter, who started well but struggled badly after Bill Polian said he felt "vindicated" by Painter's success.

The Colts lost their first 13 games, finished with the second-fewest victories since the team moved to Indianapolis in 1984 and wound up with the No. 1 draft pick.

Bill Polian repeatedly said he should be blamed if there was a talent deficiency.

Chris Polian, who was named the team's GM four years ago but didn't start making the day-to-day decisions until this season, got caught in the crossfire. He was seen leaving the team complex Monday afternoon, just about the time word leaked of the firings.

2012 NFL draft order
The Colts will pick No. 1 overall in the 2012 draft. The 20 non-playoff teams know where they'll pick, aside from coin flips that will break ties for the Nos. 8 and 11 picks. Draft Order

"To think that just less than less than two years ago we were getting ready to go to Miami and play in a Super Bowl, and we were cleaning off the confetti from the turf in Lucas Oil Stadium, it has been a very sharp decline," Irsay said. "Even after going 10-6 last year, if people had said you would have the No. 1 draft pick and go 2-14, nobody would have believed it."

Stanford quarterback Andrew Luck is the presumed No. 1 pick in April's draft and there has been question as to whether Manning and Luck could co-exist on the same roster.

For his part, Manning said Sunday, "I think I can co-exist with any player I've ever played with. I think I've always been a good teammate in that way."

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Solon16

Sorry Brother but Ted Thompson and Kevin Colbert are the best! Billy B is very close 3rd...no one in history has worked the draft better than billy B! His picks somewhat suspect tho!

Let's put it perspective here. Ted Thompson inherited a franchise that already went to 2 Superbowls behind Favre and participated in a conference championship with Favre just 1-2 years before Aaron Rodgers took over as starter in his 4th year. MEANING? He might not have even been responsible for landing Aaron Rodgers for all we know. The Packers are undoubtedly a great organization but it didn't START with Thompson. He fertilized and watered a great setup so that it could grow. For that, I give him credit but I can't call this short body of work better than Polian's. Come on with that!

Polian has been THE architect of long term success in Buffalo and Indy while also getting Carolina to a Conference Championship in just his 2nd season. And when you look at Indy's record before Polian arrived, they EARNED the right to draft first overall the old fashion way by outstinking all other organizations. Ted Thompson or the guy in Pittsburgh didn't have to turn around dysfunctionalism. Just out of curiosity, what has Buffalo done before or after Polian's assemblances of talent? We're talking 25-30 years of work Solon vrs 2 impressive newbies joining the already storied and successful franchises in Green Bay and Pittsburgh. The Steelers were also making conference championships in spite of guys like Neil O'Donnell and Kordell Stewart when Tom Donahoe was in charge of the front office. It's kind of like giving Carmen Policy, who inherited paradise in motion out in SF, more credit than the front office guy that actually turned things around there. Getting it turned around to the place to be was the difficult part that led to Carmen Policy getting greeted by the agents of Deion Sanders, Ricky Jackson and every other superstar that wanted to end careers with a Superbowl championship. Let's credit the right people for making the organization attractive instead of the beneficiary. We saw what Policy was made of when we asked him to do the hard part right?

I know what youmean about Billy B GETTING the picks and many are suspect. BUT, remember Billy B drafting us some Tommy Vardell at #13 overall and losing his mind when his version of X-factor Kyle Brady was drafted just 1 slot before Billy B treated us to some Craig Powell in upper round 1? What a career that JR LBer from Ohio State had covering punts in the NFL. And all these RECENT NE draft picks Billy B has been stockpiling have been on a TON of defensive backs in rounds 1 and 2, which has his pass defense ranked where today? They can wax on and wax off to that sissy division of theirs all they want; but the better teams in the AFC North usually kick their fannies in recent years including the McCoy and Hillis led Cleveland Browns of 2010. I think TSuggs personally saw to it that all the prettier Patriots could return to their underwear modelling jobs in early January. There's some people that want to give Billy B Colt McCoy and Peyton Hillis for free just so they can turn around and call him brilliant later. He's a VERY good coach that got lucky somebody persuaded him to draft a Tom Brady he knew nothing about. His Xs and Os were winless in NE all the way up to Bledsoe's lacerated kidney put the 6th round idea on the field. I think NE misses Scot Pioli more than many might think.

[golfer704u]

Late to the party on this. But it sounds to me like Bill Polian is getting close to that age where he wants to retire and Irsay didn't have any confidence that the son was as good at it as the father was.

Why do I have a nightmare that some team will hire Polian AND Cowher and turn into a dynasty?

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by Solon16

Sorry Brother but Ted Thompson and Kevin Colbert are the best! Billy B is very close 3rd...no one in history has worked the draft better than billy B! His picks somewhat suspect tho!

I like Flugel's take pretty well. No doubt Ted Thompson is a badass and ranks up there, the best? Not quite yet but maybe soon. Colbert walked into a team with 40 years of great drafts, a great scouting department in place and the luxury of sitting back in maintenance mode.

It also helps that Pitt has in-house steroid dealers walking around with needles full of HGH and Deca-Durabolin while Dan Rooneys buddy Rodger Goodell tells the world he accepts their claims that they're bringing in senior citizens from the bingo hall to inject with those PED's. In Pitts team facilities. I disagree with TONS of the claims about PED's but they can certainly make average draft picks look great. It's kind of hard to gauge just how good their drafting is and where it separates from the massive PED use going on.

[Legendary]

Could we get Bill Polian in and work with Tom Heckert and kick out the Walrus and his nephew Pat