Andrew Luck

[golfer704u]

Hillis is gone. Not even a chance he stays here.

As for Luck and Indy Ytown. I'll repost what I posted elsewhere. I have no clue why you think your interpretation of the known facts is better than anyone elses.

Originally Posted by golfer704u

I know this is being discussed in many different threads with opinions on both sides of who wanted Luck, Irsay or the Polians. But this is the scenario I believe more in personally and let me explain why.

As an Owner, Irsay is his own boss, no one is going to fire him and he's not continually trying to build a resume. So loyalty for him can be a luxury. And it's natural for owners to start to truly care for the players who have led thier franchises for years. So I can definitely understand Irsay wanting to give Manning what he wants.

Where as with the Polians. They are GMs. they are EMPLOYEES. As was shown, at anytime they can be shown the door and then are looking for work again. So they are constantly thinking about thier body of work and thier resumes. They are continually trying to show people that they can evaluate talent and bring it in. It makes more sense to me that they would be interested in finding the "next Manning", so that they can say they were the one to find them. It makes even mroe sense to me when you consider it's father and son doing this. The father has his legacy, he is hoping to help his son build his.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by lemosley01

Yeah, but talent-wise, it seems that Stanford's receivers are outmatched. Yet they get the job done anyway. The QB (Luck) is elevating their play. Like Manning elevates the play of his receivers. Or Tom Brady does his. Or Drew Brees his.

I didn't see outmatched recivers, not sure what games you are watching. I saw recivers who were at least the equal of the DBs they were facing.

Luck has what he has to work with and made the pieces work well.



We already have a pretty good RB in the form of Peyton Hillis.

gone gone gone. next question?



Rodgers didn't have Jennings; Brett Favre did. Did having a Pro-Bowl QB like Favre help Jennings? And Rodgers got to sit behind Brett Favre. Rodgers and Luck aren't comparable.



I never said that and I don't know about Dallas sans Emmit Smith, but I do believe that Dallas doesn't become of the team of the 90's WITHOUT Troy Aikman. San Fran is not the team of the 80s without Joe Montana. Buffalo doesn't get to 4 SBs in a Row w/o Jim Kelly, and Denver doesn't win without John Elway.

there is NO ARGUMENT that you need a great QB along wiht other peices to win. But you are guaranteeing you won't have any other peices. I can go look what got drafted after Kelly and Montana, but I guarantee you there were players that made huge differences on thier teams that were drafted in the years shortly after thier QBs.



2010 Indianapolis Colts vs. 2011 Indianapolis Colts. That's 'just' ONE guy.

Can you say ANOMOLY

Where have Drew Brees receivers come from? How about Tom Brady? Free-agency exists and is useful; I'm much more for acquiring proven receivers via FA than in the draft.
3 of brees recievers were drafted by NO

The Browns record over the last 5-7 years, where we DID have all of our draft picks (but how many QBs have we been through?) epitomizes not sucking?

Does it currently look like we are on a trajectory to not suck?

there goes that weird logic again. "we haven't had success with 1st round picks so i'd rather not have them". Sorry I just don't buy that logic. and if you do still believe that. then you better want Holmgren and heckert fired now.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil

That's my two cents. You don't sell the farm to get Andrew Luck when the farm has a broken tractor, shit for crops and no value. We lose 3 first round picks, theoretically. So you're saying you're willing to sacrifice THREE POTENTIAL STARTERS on a team that needs WAY more than that for ONE QB who MAYBE is the next big thing? PLUS TWO SECONDS which is maybe a starter out of the two. FOUR POTENTIAL STARTERS. That's insane, I am not trying to cross a line of personal attack or anything but the idea to me is literally mad. This team needs so much, like, we fans should almost do a pledge drive that's how desperate we are and Luck isn't going to magic that to a better reality.

So then we need to basically get LUCKY (Ala TJ Ward/Sheard) on second round picks... WE WONT HAVE sorry.. THIRD rounders for a WR, RT, maybe a HB, TE... geez, those picks we gave up sure look useful now. THATS just on offense. I am sorry if this is crossing a line, I need to eat something and thinking about this football team all morning has really kind of grated at my calm.

I am sorry but the math and sense doesn't parallel and it doesn't add up for me either. THAT is why you pass on Andrew Luck, take a QB of equal or lesser value than Colt McCoy. Draft a QB in the first round, honestly. I like that idea better than signing Matt Flynn but do not sell the farm for Andrew Luck... I don't see the team doing that either, but I don't know if and how much Holmgren is in love with this guy or not.

What's insane to me no offense is this mentality of "well that QB will cost us a bit, let's NOT grab him even though he'll command the team he goes to to many postseasons." Yeah, Quarterbacks like that have a price. You can pay it or you can be.... Well, the Browns and keep drafting 3rd round QB's and going 4-12 hoping one pans out someday. Or taking some 1st round system QB when they fall, again. That's insane and I can kinda see where Shemp has been coming from a bit, every year it's the same story with this Franchise. We pass on the Pig Ben's, the Rodgers, the Daltons and pass on paying a price for the Ryans, Staffords, Bradfords and Lucks because it'll cost something. Meanwhile we don't do like others and just bottom out to rebuild and GET one of those guys either, we fight our way to perpetual 4-12's and "grab a QB later in the draft."

Frankly it's gotten old. We need to get that position handled then take it from there at this point. If a guy who likely will reach that upper echelon of the Elways, Aikmans and Mannings is available at a cost then pay it. Enough diddling around Cleveland, we haven't had THAT upper tier of QB in nearly 60 fucking years people. Coincidentally we haven't been in THAT upper tier of team regularly since. Now i'm not going all BW and saying that's ALL we need but goddamn a guy like that sure would be a huge help.

As for the asking price? Three 1sts and two 2nds is pure media speculation. Let's say it isn't though. You need to relax for a minute bro and take the emotion out of it. As any good GM would know there are ways around that effecting you as i've pointed out before. Let's use that example, 3 1sts, 2 2nds.

Option A:
2012 1st
2012 2nd
2013 1st
2014 1st
2014 2nd

Option B:
2012 1st
2012 1st
2013 2nd
2014 1st
2014 2nd

Option C:
2012 1st
2012 1st
2012 2nd
2013 1st
2013 2nd

Move them away from Option C and sell them on A or B. Look closely at A and B. You've used your extra 1st this year as a means to set the picks apart. With Option A you've kept two firsts this year and deflected any damage to 2014. In the meantime you've also set it up so you can recoup a 2nd rounder THIS year with the extra first. Conversely all it takes is a certain player to fall and a New Orleans to need that type of player to pull a Belichick and recoup a 2nd+ 2013 1st. May or may not happen but you can still lessen the impact. With Option B it's similar and effects a team less. You can recoup a 2013 2nd with your first rounder next year and could probably also recoup a 2014 2nd, Belichick does it ALL the time.

Chances are the Colts would want Option B. GM's actually like having extra draft picks spread out over several years in order to better scout and prepare for them. Except for Belichick who likes having 30 draft picks every year of course but even he opted to flip his 2nd 1st over to this year. The other thing with Option B as a massive leg up is they'd move up three slots. STL has Bradford, MN committed to Ponder longterm then there's us/Indy. They can turn around and flip #4 into even more picks in exchange for the services of HarrellIII. Including a 2013 1st. Both TB and Washington in #5/#6 also need QB's. Option B could literally set them up with multiple 1sts and 2nds for the next 3 years and i'd let 'em know that....

Matter of fact... If I were Heckert I would hint around an interest in moving out of #4 if HarrellIII is there/debate taking him. Let the Jets and others know the asking price is the same deal we gave Atlanta. Drive up the cost a bit, get some preliminary offers then take them to Indy and say "hey, we'll give you this for#1 overall. Both 1sts this year and a 2nd next. With #4 you can also land all of this when Harrell III is sitting on the board at #4. With OUR deal you're getting 3 1sts, two 2nds and two 4ths, a far better deal than you can get from anyone else."

Then again what do I know? I only negotiate deals with large corporations regularly, i've never fetched Andy Reid his coffee while he made those important NFL type deals.

[YtownBacker]

Golf, I do think your scenario is ass backwards but what's nice is we both get to have an opinion and time will tell who's guessed right.

IMO Irsay is the business man who sees an aging veteran with health problems and doesn't want to give him $28 million to see if he has anything left when the next great thing is sitting on the white horse ready to ride in.

Polian is one of the most respected execs in the NFL and is a personal friend of Archie Manning. He is loyal to a fault but that's why he is so respected. Irsay has everything to lose and is a business man, not a football man. You need to hear what Tony Dungey has to say about Polians and their relationship to Manning. He's the one along with Jeff Saturday who has said Irsay is willing to blow it all up and move on.

But, we'll have to wait to see. My opinion is Irsay is a snake and most in the NFL know that Polian built that franchise........................But, like you said, it's with Irsay's money so he can do whatever he wants.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

Fact is Luck won't be for sale.

Fact is you have no idea and should seriously stop making grand proclamations that are your mere hope.

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

I don't know why KOK wants everyone to think the colts would be interested in auctioning off Luck.

I don't want anyone to think anything, I want people to stop plugging their ears going "lalalalalala not for sale lalalalala McCoy is our guy lalalalalala" and deal with the reality in front of them. The reality is this team flat out refuses to endorse McCoy. The reality is the last time we needed a QB this F.O. offered most of our draft for Sam Bradford, a guy who was 20% of the prospect and Athlete as Andrew Luck. The reality is the F.O. IS thinking long and hard about it right now and Luck i'm sorry to keep breaking your heart IS very much for sale.

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

Irsay is stripping the team of Manning loyalists and will rebuild the franchise with Luck as the centerpiece.

See this conversation would go alot smoother and I wouldn't be getting frustrated right now if you would actually go do some research and stop trying to make things up then chanting them like a silly little mantra. The frustration is largely because multiple times now i've given you EASILY verifiable information that has been talked about in the media ALL SEASON LONG and you keep acting like it isn't staring you in the face as you return to this "lalalala they were loyalists lalalala the Colts are stripping team to get rid of Manning lalalala" mantra.

Please, ENOUGH. There has been ONE speculative report in the last year that the Irsay's were "really" backing Manning as they slobbered all over Luck's balls, camped out on Stanford's campus throughout the season scouting him and dropped hints about life without Manning. In fact I seem to recall a report on PFT about 4 or 5 months ago where Bill P said he couldn't foresee moving the pick. It was right before Irsay made the statement about Luck being fine, you know, sitting behind Manning for 3 or 4 years.

I'll leave out the report the Polians filtered through the local media about how Manning's hand picked HC, Radio Caldwell was to be fired at the end of the season. You know, the guy Manning handpicked who is still there, unless of course Manning's #1 fanboy, the guy who wore Mannings jersey to pressers and practices while coaching a division rival lands the job(he's in talks with them afterall). Ooops, maybe I won't. Funny thing how Luck's fanclub was shown the door as Mannings Coaches still have their jobs(for now) and Irsay is trying to get Manning's biggest fan in as GM/HC yet it's all some conspiracy to show Peyton the door. Riiiiiight.

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

This has nothing to do with me wanting McCoy in Cleveland, it's reality.

It's a far cry from reality, but i'll give you props it's one hell of a story.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

Tom,

While I understand that our history with first round picks has been close to awful, to me it defies logic to then say, we shouldn't want to have first round picks.

You mentioned Aikman. Imagine those Cowboy teams without Emmit Smith, Russle Maryland, and Alvin Harper at MINIMUM.

Same with Aaron Rodgers. Imagine him with out Greg Jennings, AJ Hawk, and James Jones at MINIMUM.

would those two teams be the same? Some people would tell you yes, that Rodgers makes Jennings that much better. And I'd say look at the games where Jennings isn't in there.

And then understand that this team SUCKS worse than the Packers did when they got Rodgers. and you understand why I say there is a price that is too much for Luck.

Well, I asked for opinions after giving mine. I understand where you are coming from Golfer - I really do. You made some good points to let me know where you are coming from on it all.

I'm actually in the process of changing my mind to thinking we might be able to barter up something doable. Last week, I wasn't as ready to do it because I thought I had myself talked into RGIII at #4 overall. Alot of that was I didn't want to lose all the surrounding help I thought high round picks could offer us. BUT, free agency looks as good as I've ever seen it at WR where we are extremely weak in a passing era outside of Cribbs. We could have been more more aggressive at RT and DE last year because free agency offered some good guys.

Regarding Green Bay, Greg Jennings was a 2nd round pick at #52 overall and Jordy Nelson was also a 2nd round pick at #36 overall. James Jones was drafted in round 3 and Driver in round 7. None of their RBs (Starks or Grant) were drafted very high as Grant wasn't even drafted. TE Jermichael Finley was round 3. Even their LT Chad Clifton was drafted in round 2. We drafted Braylon Edwards at #3 overall a year we could have traded down for more picks while drafting Aaron Rodgers as late as #24 overall. IF we use free agency right and add speed outside while not letting Hillis get away to create yet another need we definitely don't need - we can INDEED add DeSean Jackson in FA. He was originally a 2nd round draft pick as well.

I look at Pittsburgh's studs on defense (aside from Polly) and it seems like many are drafted after round 1 (Harrison, Keisel, Woodley, the secondary, etc. On offense, I've seen them experience success with an undrafted Willie Parker at RB and EVERY one of their WRs they use to remain the team to beat are all drafted after round 1. The only 1st round pick they have on the oline is their Center and TE Heath Miller.

Elway's biggest x-factor became a 6th round RB Terrell Davis aside from whatever round they found Shannon Sharpe out of Savannah State in. I don't think any of their 3 Amigos were first round guys but I might be wrong.

Alot of the Cowboys best picks long term weren't 1st round picks like Russell Maryland and Alvin Harper. They were guys like Leon Lett, Erik Williams, Ray Allen in later rounds from places like Sonoma State and Emporia State. Moose Johnston was a nice pick and was TE Jay Novacek even drafted? Your GOOD front office personnel gurus HAVE to be able to do well after round one.

I just think Andrew Luck will be WORTH 3 first round picks (especially if one of those is just swapping a #1 overall with a #4 overall so we only essentially only lose 2 first round picks). That's the extra 1st round pick in 2012 and our first round pick in 2013 really only meaning 1 year without a 1st round pick in 2013. I say this because I've seen how often a kid of Luck's smarts and talent comes along. If our only other option is RGIII because we don't have to trade anything away - how many Big 12 QBs are currently starting and acing it in the NFL? It's already been decided our Big 12 QB isn't going to be our guy; and he wasn't just a 1 year wonder either. I don't think we can afford to part with too much more than that so I could also get excited about Case Keenum after round 1.

[Sez.EJ]

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

It will take at LEAST 3 picks if not 4 to get Luck.. Heckert is not going to do that.. Luck will not be playing in Cleveland.. just forgetaboutit.

Originally Posted by King of Kings

Considering Heckert sucks balls at his job you could be right, it would be like Opie Jr to pass on grabbing our QB of the future because he doesn't come free with no strings attached.

Sorry King I have to seriously disagree. The reason Heckert won't trade 3-4 picks for Luck is not because Heckert sucks (he's drafted pretty darned well so far). It is because. 3-4 picks is too expensive in that is takes away too much from the other gaping holes in our roster we need those picks to fill ..

If you give 3 picks or maybe 4 for Luck.. Then he is stuck here with no OL and no playmakers..so we would be no better than we are now. Luck gets the snot pounded out of him like Timmy Couch. Heckert is too smart to mortgage the next 2-3 years for one player who by himself cannot elevate the team enough to make giving 3-4 picks worth it. .. We need ALL those picks to raise the quality of this offense and defense.

There will be other QB's available in the future.. Build the team. Get some playmakers.. .then insert the QB if McCoy does not elevate his game. Even if we bring in competition for McCoy..there are other ways to do it without mortgaging the future for 1 guy.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

Sorry King I have to seriously disagree. The reason Heckert won't trade 3-4 picks for Luck is not because Heckert sucks (he's drafted pretty darned well so far).

2 Hits out of 22 picks isn't "darn well", it's actually far below average. He makes Jerry Jones look like Ozzie Newsome.

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

It is because. 3-4 picks is too expensive in that is takes away too much from the other gaping holes in our roster we need those picks to fill ..

Those of you that keep throwing out since he isn't free it's too expensive... Let's just say he lights it up as expected, Manning level. Still too costly? Skip to the future, Indy(or whomever) is enjoying another decade of AFC Championship games and 12+ win seasons. Still too expensive? It sure would be nice to have that in Cleveland for a change, no matter the cost and to me it boils down to the following three examples:

1- Indy with Manning: 14-2. Without: 3-13.

2- Cincy with bad QB'ing: 4-12. Cincy with Dalton: 9-7.

3- Carolina with Pickle: 1-15. With Scam: 6-10. *Vomits*. Yeah they'd be 9-7 if he were better and didn't cost them games and he is vastly overrated but still.

Last year Indy's Oline was ranked near the top, this year they were ranked as one of the worst. Last year Cinci's Oline was considered a joke, this year they're considered pretty good. A good QB can have that effect. Peyton Manning is 10-6 ON HIS OWN. Dalton and Scam are 5 win QB's on their own. Luck is somewhere in the middle. Alot better than Scam and considerably better than Dalton. I'd estimate somewhere in the range of a 6-10 QB with no help.

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

If you give 3 picks or maybe 4 for Luck.. Then he is stuck here with no OL and no playmakers..so we would be no better than we are now.

See above on the Online. As to the rest we have this asskicking thing called free agency. And trades. And waiver wires. And rounds after rounds 1 and 2.

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

Luck gets the snot pounded out of him like Timmy Couch.

Just curious but you HAVE seen Luck play, right? Not only does he have top notch field awareness, an incredible release and impeccable timing but he also has the toughness and elusiveness of Pig Ben. He can scramble and buy time. Matter of fact he has to do it regularly at Stanford. While throwing to a cast of no name receivers he makes to look like a million bucks. He is no Tim Couch.

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

There will be other QB's available in the future.. Build the team. Get some playmakers.. .then insert the QB if McCoy does not elevate his game. Even if we bring in competition for McCoy..there are other ways to do it without mortgaging the future for 1 guy.

Ahhh yes here's that familiar Cleveland mantra. Screw the Mannings, the Rodgers, the Elways, Aikmans, Montanas, Bradshaws and Lucks there'll be other guys some other day. Pass on taking QB's let's just draft for everything else, maybe we can draft the NM Lobos QB in the 7th and kick those tires.

The time is here and now. It is time for the Cleveland Browns to have THAT guy instead of revolving lovable underdogs every year. This F.O., Tommy Terrific included determined Sam Bradford was worth an entire draft for. Luck is worth 3 or 4 draft picks and I guarantee they're thinking it through and if that's the only thing they have to give up I bet they make the offer. Just a hunch.

Now I wasn't going to do this and the following will probably make me seem like an even bigger dick but it needs to be said. Some of you need to let the Colt McCoy shit go and accept it already. Holmgren refused to endorse him and said he would be evaluated, Heckert said the same and Patty Cakes stated just yesterday the starting QB position is open and wouldn't endorse McCoy. There is no "let's build around McCoy." He's finished here, they've made it perfectly clear he's finished here and started project scapegoat on him.

It's time to accept that and move on. Flynn, Luck, HarrellIII, Keenum, Tannehill, Sanchez, Manning or whomever they're moving in a different direction and Colt is done as starter in Cleveland. Does it suck? Yeah, but putting our heads in the sand denying it all isn't going to change it. They're going in a new direction and we're back to discussing QB's for another year. Maybe more.

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

Really hoping KoK is right about this one.

Today 92.3 had a reporter on from Indiana, and he said Luck is the pick, and there will be no trade ...to the Colts he's priceless. He also said they are scouting RG III and doing due diligence, but there is no chance they are drafting RG III @ 1.

Those of you comparing the cockpit Luck would have with the Browns now, to the one Tim Couch came into the league with are not in tune with the reality of just how bad our roster was back then from top to bottom.

If Luck is for sale, you absolutely do everything in your power to meet the asking price. If he's not, you move on with the "typical Cleveland" mantra ringing in your ears for the next 10+ years wondering why it was oh so important to win 4 games against the leagues worst teams when if there was ever any season to "suck for" anything ...this was it. But we chose not to "suck for Luck" and instead just sucked.

[OSU819903]

My thoughts....

Of course all indications are that there will be no trade. That is because Indy is not shopping the pick. There is one and only one team that they can possibly trade with, so why make any indication that the pick is for sale. Bottom line is, no matter Peyton's health next year the Colts need his replacement. Luck doesn't need to sit and learn and Peyton has no interest in mentoring himself. So perhaps the Colts think it is better to replace PM with someone who will never be PM. Maybe they think RGIII will be much more app to learn for 2-4 seasons and will be viewed as less of an immediate risk to Manning. It would all hinge on RGIII getting to us though. Colts take Luck, wait and see if Griffin makes it to 4, then pull the trigger. The reason I say the Browns are the only team the Colts could possibly deal with is, not only can we make them the best deal THIS year, but we're also in the draft position to still give them Manning's replacement. This is the only possible scenario I see where Indy lets the pick go.

[Solon16]

Here is a fact. I have been on Browns board of some ilk for a decade...AND BROWNS fans ALWAYS Over value what it would take to get someone they want...Now its five picks? BULLSHIT! Our 2 number 1's and a #2 next year GETS IT DONE!

Sheesh some of you are just off your rockers! stop the insanity!

And Y-town...Polian isn't a loyalist he is a realist...Irsay wants to keep manning! Billy P would love to set his son up with a Premier Qb for the next decade! I rsay would be perfectly happy taking a guy like Tannehill and have him sit ala rodgers for three years while picking up a bounty of picks while remaining loyal to Manning! Either way..... SAY Luck, Blackmon, and RG3 are gone...so what...We all know that means the Best LT will be available at 4(Khalil)...then WE can get a bounty of picks as well...It is a win ~ win to me! We will get one of those 4 or trade out! colts either trade out or stay put but luck is #1, Stl = Blackmon, minny = khalil, ...that leaves us with RG3 and keeping our second #1! Win win!

But giving up any more than our #4 , # 26 or so this year and our second round next year for Luck is not worth it! Hell Atlanta moved from late first round to # 7 last year and didn't give up NEARLY that much while the Colts are only moving down 3 fucking slots...need a LT and they need picks! But what is a superbowl appearance worth...

ANOTHER FACT...THE BROWNS HAVE NEVER been to the Super bowl and without a Premier QB we will NEVER get to one!

[next2nothing]

Originally Posted by King of Kings

2 Hits out of 22 picks isn't "darn well", it's actually far below average. He makes Jerry Jones look like Ozzie Newsome.

You know I respect and agree with most of your opinions King but I do think sometimes you come down a little too hard on Heckert. I don't think he's as terrible you think.

Heckert came here in January of 2010 so he's had only two drafts so far with the Browns. Let's look at his picks.

2010 Draft

1. Joe Haden CB - Great pick. Pretty much is the next great shutdown corner. GREAT PICK
2. T.J. Ward S - Another great pick, injury hurt him this year, but when he is healthy he is a good safety. I don't think he's reached his full potential either. GOOD PICK
2. Montario Hardesty RB - Looks like a very bad move to trade up and grab him when we probably could have had him in the 3rd. Hasn't stayed healthy and does not look like a NFL RB. He'll have this next year to possibly prove the doubters wrong though. BAD PICK/UNDECIDED - we'll see how 2012 goes for him
3. Colt McCoy QB - To me... he looks like a career back up but a strong case can be made that you can't really tell how he'll do in the long run, given the fact that our offense was so inept the past two seasons. UNDECIDED/BAD PICK - our off-season will tell his fate with the Browns
3. Shawn Lauvao G - Again, to me, the jury is still out. I know I made fun of him with that Cushing video but he's going to be a 3rd year guard and he only started a full season this past season so he's still relatively inexperienced. IMO, can't say if he's a good or bad pick. UNDECIDED
5. Larry Asante S - Backup safety. Couldn't even make our 53 man roster (which is pretty sad given how shitty our secondary has been). No longer with the team. BAD PICK
*6. Carlton Mitchell WR - No idea about this kid because he can't get on the field. Project pick going in but that's what the 6th round is for. Right now looks to be a total wash, probably not even on the team next year after the WR corps gets shuffled around. BAD PICK
*6. Clifton Geathers DE - Was drafted to compete for a DE spot in the 3 - 4. Never made it past final cuts. BAD PICK


2011 Draft

1. Phil Taylor DT - I know you don't think he's done much but I think he's made a pretty good impact on this young defensive front. Finished with 4 sacks and almost 60 tackles with 1 forced fumble. Stats don't tell the whole story but that's pretty good for a first year DT in a new defensive scheme. If we can pick up that pass rushing RDE then our defensive line will be solidified for a while. Again, hasn't played to his full potential either, I can see him being a real force inside. GOOD/GREAT PICK
2. Jabaal Sheard DE - Amazing rookie year. 8.5 sacks, 5 forced fumbles and 1 fumble recovery. Made a big impact in most of our games this year, especially the Pitt games. Not much more you can ask for from a 2nd round defensive end. I think he's a future star in the league. GREAT PICK
4. Jordan Cameron TE - Totally unknown. Had only 5 catches this year and saw very limited time. UNDECIDED
5. Buster Skrine CB - I think he's been very underrated his rookie year and he's really grown into that nickel corner position. I think he has the potential to be really good for us. GOOD PICK
5. Jason Pinkston T - Again a young, inexperienced unknown guy right now. Only played 12 games this year and was moved around a couple times because of our line injuries. UNDECIDED
*7. Eric Hagg S - Another project player. Only played the last 3 games. Made tackles but no INTs. We'll see more of him this season I think as a full time backup/special teamer. UNDECIDED

I labeled the 6th and 7th round picks with a asterisk because let's face it, you really can't use those picks against a GM unless he hits on em. 6th and 7th rounders are pure projects/shots in the dark. Who, most of time, are either put on the practice squad and activated later or are cut outright that first year.

So out of his 14 picks with us he's had 3 great picks in Haden, Taylor and Sheard. 2 good picks in Ward and Skrine. 4 outright undecided picks in Lauvao, Cameron, Pinkston and Hagg who are young and need more playing time to fully evaluate. 2 bad/undecided picks, depending how you look at them, in Hardesty and McCoy. And finally 3 bad picks in Asante, Mitchell and Geathers. After next year I think you can look at Heckert's picks and make a better analysis but as of right now many of his picks need this next year to get an idea of what kind of NFL player they will be.