Oh Boy, Sam Bradford out, HarrellIII in? Speculation begins!

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by handbanana

Quick update on the cost to move up for Luck. Heckert was on Browns Daily with Vic Carucci and basically said that the media speculation of 3 first rounders and some second and third rounders was the very definition of wild speculation and had no basis in reality in the football world.

Originally Posted by King of Kings

Pretty much. I'm pretty sure if Manning's neck passes physical two 1sts and maybe a 2nd or 3rd get the job done for whatever team, maybe even just two 1sts.

Originally Posted by jblackmon81

Look at the HH conference, they specifically said they would not be going to trade down.. they like there picks a lot

Originally Posted by King of Kings

They like to say alot of things, i'd put little weight in all that. In the same presser Holmgren launched into anecdote about the last time he had two #1 picks his boss traded one of them fora guy named Favre who built his unearned legacy he's still living off of. I GUARANTEE they have 10-20 differing scenarios they could go written down in the draft room, most team has the same right now.

So I'm just confused a little. You put weight in Heckerts statement about what the asking price for a pick will be which he has no control over, but you don't put weight in what the FO says their philosophy on the draft will be that they have all control over?

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

So I'm just confused a little. You put weight in Heckerts statement about what the asking price for a pick will be which he has no control over, but you don't put weight in what the FO says their philosophy on the draft will be that they have all control over?

It's actually quite simple, in the first quoted post Heckert is discussing a rumored asking price for a player. He spoke in generalities and simply stated, Shefter's rumor he created in his head and got others to bite on as fact isn't fact and is fantasy. He may have tipped his hand slightly with that statement, or there may be a chance that fetching Reid's coffee actually taught him something.

My guess would be the former, he asked around to find out. Or Holmgren did who is "impulsive" as some have put it. Although isn't Heckert, as well? Holmgren offered a handful of picks for Bradford while Heckert from his own mouth had an offer of two 1sts on the table for Kevin Kolb if he landed the job in Atlanta.(As an aside I wold hazard a guess he made the same offer when he arrived in Cleveland and we had no QB). Maybe there's a 3rd side and Indy dropped hints to the F.O. with two 1st round draft picks what they're looking for.

The second quote is a bit tricky. To believe Heckert NOW would to disbelieve Heckert and Holmgren the previous two years. They've both(I think? I know Holmgren flat out said it but I kinda recall Heckert touching on it once or twice as well) said in their pressers prior that things change constantly, nothing is is ever actually set in stone, sometimes options pop up and others options dry up and that smokescreens are a part of the draft. To take them at their word on that quote would mean to not take them at their word previously they they'll be sending out smokescreens and not tipping their hands. I think we're ALL aware of Holmgren and the smokescreens at this point, two years ago we heard in 40 threads per day how Holmgren stating "I say alot of things during the draft season, take them with salt" to mean he was throwing people off the Clausen scent so the Rams would let Pickle fall into our laps at #7.

It also would mean I would now have to put weight into their statements that we're set at WR with great WR's, that Wallace has starter potential in the NFL and that they may not hit free agency... While also hitting free agency. They'll quickly contradict what they said yesterday leading to the draft. Then contradict that. They'll absolutely love half the players in the draft while "I dunno, golly we never even scouted those guys" the other half. It's the nature of the scouting beast. It's already started. It has already went from we'll evaluate McCoy to "we love McCoy, he and Wallace will compete for the starting job." It's already went from "we'll be getting alot of help on offense and getting more talent" to hey, our WR's are great, our RB's are great and we have two starter caliber QB's on the roster. We may grab a guy or two in FA but maybe not. We may not draft for offense, how about a DE at #4? We've got 9 picks, maybe more and I hope to add 9 starters(I thought our team was great as is?).... Yeah if there's an opportunity to trade some picks for players I want i'll do that.

See? Dumptrucks fulla salt man, dumptrucks full of salt. We don't know what their plan is and they're not going to actually tell us. They're going to be for and against everything the next several months. The taking Heckert at what he said comparisons are apples and oranges.

[golfer704u]

Gotcha good clarifications.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Solon16

There were plenty of other issues going on with Brees....lest ye forget.

http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2010...rgers-let-drew

As usual Solon, you missed the main message by a mile. The BIGGEST part of the Brees point was about all the people calling him a "backup QB only" heading into his 4th season when hotshot QB Philip Rivers was drafted and held out throughout training camp. Gates and McCardell were signed and Brees made the Pro Bowl. Going from 1 weapon/prong to 3 did the trick. That simple!

NO, I didn't forget Brees got injured 2-3 years later when Rivers was getting the salary of the first overall pickin San Diego awaiting start #1. I just remembered the highest regarded sport med surgeon in America Dr Andrews deemed him with a clean bill of health. Then the guy with the biggest grapefruits (Sean Payton) took Brees in at humbling garage sale prices.

[Solon16]

Originally Posted by Flugel

As usual Solon, you missed the main message by a mile. The BIGGEST part of the Brees point was about all the people calling him a "backup QB only" heading into his 4th season when hotshot QB Philip Rivers was drafted and held out throughout training camp. Gates and McCardell were signed and Brees made the Pro Bowl. Going from 1 weapon/prong to 3 did the trick. That simple!

NO, I didn't forget Brees got injured 2-3 years later when Rivers was getting the salary of the first overall pickin San Diego awaiting start #1. I just remembered the highest regarded sport med surgeon in America Dr Andrews deemed him with a clean bill of health. Then the guy with the biggest grapefruits (Sean Payton) took Brees in at humbling garage sale prices.

y the douchy attack again? I pointed out the story of why he's a Saint and nothing else!

[Solon16]

Originally Posted by Flugel

As usual Solon, you missed the main message by a mile. The BIGGEST part of the Brees point was about all the people calling him a "backup QB only" heading into his 4th season when hotshot QB Philip Rivers was drafted and held out throughout training camp. Gates and McCardell were signed and Brees made the Pro Bowl. Going from 1 weapon/prong to 3 did the trick. That simple!

NO, I didn't forget Brees got injured 2-3 years later when Rivers was getting the salary of the first overall pickin San Diego awaiting start #1. I just remembered the highest regarded sport med surgeon in America Dr Andrews deemed him with a clean bill of health. Then the guy with the biggest grapefruits (Sean Payton) took Brees in at humbling garage sale prices.

Oh yeah...LT was in the backfield...I think we went with the big penny that year

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Solon16

y the douchy attack again? I pointed out the story of why he's a Saint and nothing else!

Solon,
If indeed the "lest ye forget" remark about something that took place 2-3 years after Brees proved he wasn't a backup was meant out of utmost respect on your behalf - my sincerest of apologies for the misinterpretation.

The reason I LIKE bringing up that San Diego scenario is because they thought so little of Brees when they earned the right to draft 1st overall after his 3rd season was in the books. Stay with me here. Eli had been saying I won't play for San Diego and rumor had it Archie Manning was an enormous reason for that behind the scenes. San Diego did not listen to Eli or the Head Coach Marty Schottenheimer and drafted Eli anyway. THEN, they traded with the Giants for Rivers. Meanwhile more silent footsteps were being made in that same off season like adding an All Pro WR named Keenan McCardell and Antonio Gates. Those were the only 2 changes in an offense that previously earned the right to draft first overall on a QB that hindsight 20/20 tells us was never even necessary.

Here we are looking exactly like those Chargers and their fan base that prematurely convicted Drew Brees of "he's just a backup and we obviously need a REAL QB." I'm just a fan who wasn't born to peg star QBs for a living; BUT I have watched 1 QB here after another sentenced to WRs (inclusive of Braylon Edwards) that drop too many 3rd down passes to make ANY QB successful. When Braylon had the ONLY season resembling a 3rd overall pick, he put DA (aka Dumb Ass) in a Pro Bowl. It MATTERS. Anyway, I would like to see 1 QB while still in a batters box get a FULL arsenal so we can truely tell if the QB is the anchor or not. For example, Tampa never needed to trade Steve Young to the team with Jerry Rice - they just needed to know who Steve young was. On the other hand, all those Dallas fans and media riding Jimmy Johnson that Steve Walsh was the simple solution to their version of an overrated backup named Troy got vetoes by a man who KNEW Troy Aikman. He had the balls to deserve 3 Superbowls. Elway was a similar story after a rocky start in the Rockies.

TODAY, I want us to bring in someone to compete for the starting QB job. Like you, my dream is Andrew Luck and my nightmare is pretending someone after him is Peyton Manning with automatic tenure at starting. I think we can draft a talented prospect if Luck is too expensive. If we end up with a Keenum or a Tannenbomb, it would be okay to let McCoy start the first couple of games. If he plays well he stays in there - if he stinks the way all his critics want him to then we change QBs for the trillionth time. At least, I would have have seen the swing and miss at strike 3. I'm also pretty certain that if we're just gonna drop every 3rd down pass, it ain't gonna matter what the QB's name is (inclusive of Andrew Luck). McCoy was easily our best QB in 2010 as Watson enjoyed one of the best years of his career - also slam dunking we needed better production from the WRs. As we delve into these off season QB discussions, I hope we remain cognizant of the difference in defenses played in the Big 12 vrs the AFC North. It's definitely an adjustment bordering culture shock - just ask Colt McCoy after his first 21 starts. KOKs did a sensational job of pointing out Baylor ran the Texas Tech offense featuring zero contested routes down field, which doesn't answer the accuracy in tight spaces question at all. If the Michael Vickness in him impresses people, then understand how often Vick is injured and remember James Harrison has 3 Cleveland head traumas on his resume.

[Legacy Fan]

Originally Posted by DawgFan

Bradford has had 4 games with a rating over 90 in 26 games in the SUPER WEAK NFC West.

Colt has had 5 games with a rating over 90 in 21 games in the ULTRA COMPETITIVE AFC North.

Then you look at the actual weapons, and I stay with Colt. Besides which, I think Bradford would be physically broken by week 6 behind this OL.

Great post.

And I agree with whoever said that Bradford wouldnt ever make it a full season in the AFCN.