#Browns owner Randy Lerner weighs in on the QB issue. (audio) #NFL

[damajuki]

Originally Posted by Legacy Fan

Great post Juke, Im quoting this part because I still stand by my point on Marecic.

When you let what would have been a ProBowl FB 10 years ago (do FBs still get invited to Hawaii in the modern passing league NFL?) walk and replace him with a draft pick - regardless of round - he is now your starter (especially if you plan on using that position on Sundays*) and not a developmental player. Developmental players should develop under someone. FB is slowly going the way... but you still dont create a hole on a team already full of them just to penny pinch on a 4th rounder. Which is what we did. Owen Marecic got drafted from the Toby Gerhart hype imo and will bounce around the league soon enough.

Hillis didn't seem to have the kind of oomph inside the tackles he did last year. Injury or not. He had some healthy games. I think in addition to poor playcalling, the suspect is an absent Vickers.

I only included Cameron in the list because we had almost 30 TE's on the team when he was drafted. Kind of a WTF?

*Shurmur, imo, doesn't really understand fuck-all about the FB position as evidenced by the Alex Smith debacle.

Leg, I don't really disagree with you on Marecic (or Cameron); I have a hard time believing they were the best available at their draft spot. I was more arguing the "it's a bit early to give up on them" position.

That said, though I didn't like either pick, I'm guessing/hoping there's a plan/place for guys like that. They also seem like Mangini-type guys, hard workers, high football IQ, good athletic ability, versatile. Seem like depth guys, at minimum, who could grow into bigger roles. So, not awful.

Re: Vickers, granted, going from Vickers to Marecic seems a step down but ultimately, in the positional importance hierarchy during a rebuild, FB is pretty low on the totem pole. So if we're going to save money/cap space on a certain position, FB seems to make sense to me.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Vegasdogg

For instance? Could you give me some examples why you think this way? People said they exact same thing about some stupid ass Mural controversy when Eric moved it to -- wait for it -- a more viisible location so more players could see it. That is what is called disinformation.


Slowly replacing the vets in contrary to what Tom H just did. We had 43 new players and somethng like 16 new starters. Of course we need playmakers, and that goes for both Eric and Pat. The reall issue right now is the QB. They need to find one. Anyone who says Mike Holmgren no longer knows QB's is being silly. Coaching and teaching is what he does and he sure has a knack for it - he has taught Montana, Young, Favre, Hassleback and 2-3 other NFL starters. He knows how to do that and help other do it.

This nonsense that Holmgren doesn't coach anymore so he doesn't have hands on what is being taught is silly. The man is a teacher. He understands this postion more than anyone we have had here since probably Infante.

Yep Holmgren taught his way to a 4-12 season for the Browns. WOOOO HOOOO....

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

These guys gave two shits about the fans, former players or tradition

Re-he-he-eeeealllly now??????

So tell me RifferX, who was responsible for the RING OF HONOR:

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/...5-61d4ea110914

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Go talk to Langhorne, Golic, Cleo Miller to name a few. Each I have heard interviewed and each says these guys do not welcome former players at all.

Well I don't believe these guys said that so until I hear it from them I won't give it credence. Nothing against you personally - I just do not (and never have) jumped to conclusions on 1/2-truths and rumors. Didn't do it with Eric and aint doing it now.

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Where is Jim Brown at now BTW?

LOL. Out of the spotlight so he doesn't give contrary information. Jim Brown doesn't work for this organization any longer so this means the FO hates former Browns? Got it.

Originally Posted by Riffer X

BTW, is this all you're going to do again now that you're back---stick up for Walrus boy and bash EM again?

If you're asking me if I am going to become part of the echo chamber around here that is backed by the mods, sorry dude but I am not going to join the little club. If you don't want to be challenged or have your thoughts picked a part, place me on ignore. I don't walk goose-stepping through a Browns board just because you have the ear of the people and the god-gun.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

Yep Holmgren taught his way to a 4-12 season for the Browns.

Season sucked. But I am more hopeful after this 4-12 season than I am after the previous 5-11 seasons? Why? We're shitloads younger, we had a top 10 defense (they ran the ball but they couldn't score) and Heckert keeps adding players.

Meh. These next few months are going to be like typical Mondays after a loss. No big deal.

I don't mind people not buying into Holmgren, I just find it hypocritical that most of the haters are jumping on the hyperbole and hatin' after they just got done not two+ years ago fighting the exact same thing with the previous regime.

And many are even making shit up out of thin fucking air, or they're quoting people who make it up out of thin fucking air.

Pathetic.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Where is Jim Brown at now BTW?

Where do you ask? Oh that's easy. He is the first Browns member elected into the Ring of Honor. What is that you ask? Or just a little something started by the all-Browns hating Mike Holmgren:

2010 RING OF HONOR INDUCTEES:
RB JIM BROWN (1957-1965) – Rushed for 12,312 yards on 2,359 career carries in 118 games… Totaled 126 career touchdowns with 106 rushing and 20 receiving… Led the NFL in rushing in eight of his nine seasons… Led the league in touchdowns five seasons… Recorded 58 career 100-yard rushing performances… Earned NFL Most Valuable Player award in 1957, 1958 and 1964… Named NFL Rookie of the Year in 1957… Selected to nine consecutive Pro Bowls… Uniform number 32 retired by the Browns… Enshrined in the Hall of Fame in 1971.

What is this ROH?

“Our heritage and alumni are vital parts of our organization,” said Browns President Mike Holmgren. “The Cleveland Browns franchise has such a tremendous history and tradition that we felt it was extremely important to visibly honor the greats who have laid the groundwork for everyone associated with the Cleveland Browns. The creation of the Ring of Honor and the reinstitution of the Legends Program are just the start of how we plan to pay tribute to our history. When our fans now enter Cleveland Browns Stadium they will constantly be reminded of the great players and most memorable moments in our club’s past. The contributions of these 16 men will always be remembered.”

Originally Posted by Riffer X

What have you seen from Mikey and his peeps that exudes Browns passion? I'm posting this quickly cuz I got work to do, but don't even try to act like this shit hasn't gone on here.

Move along now. These are not the hyperbole and bullshit droids you are looking for.

[Vegasdogg]

“Our heritage and alumni are vital parts of our organization,” said Browns President Mike Holmgren. “The Cleveland Browns franchise has such a tremendous history and tradition that we felt it was extremely important to visibly honor the greats who have laid the groundwork for everyone associated with the Cleveland Browns. The creation of the Ring of Honor and the reinstitution of the Legends Program are just the start of how we plan to pay tribute to our history. When our fans now enter Cleveland Browns Stadium they will constantly be reminded of the great players and most memorable moments in our club’s past. The contributions of these 16 men will always be remembered.”

OUR FANS.....WE PLAN....WE FELT....OUR HISTORY.......

Such an outsider.

You have to wonder how this was never in place before, but it took a Cleveland hating, Browns history hating, west coast loving, former player hating MIKE HOLMGREN to get this started.

Yep. Facts suck sometimes, but that's just a part of life!

[nmills]

I can say from experience, I went to 4 home games this year. And I'm almost 100% certain they brought in former players and announced them pregame at every game I went to. So to say they don't acknowledge former players a a blatant lie. Just my 2 cents.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

When we got a guy who figured it out in Mangie

Figured what out?

How to win games without passing the ball?

How to have a defensive background yet have a shitty defense?

How to load the rosters with old players and non-starters?

How to give up high draft picks for these old shitty players?

How to play aging, washed up J Lewis over J Harrison because JH didn't play ST's, only to be forced into it by injury?

How to play shitty E Wright over stud J Haden, only to be forced to make that choice because Eric got hurt?

How to takeover a shitty team only to draft a underwhelming DE in the 2nd round who he planned to make a project with, when the roster needed starters?

How to keep the QB decision a secret every week so that not only did the competition knew what was going on, but the Browns themselves were completely confused and scatterbrained?

How to take a shitty roster and make it older and shittier?

I will say this for the man for his time here - he had great ST's man. Wow!!!

He didn't have shit figured out. His game day decisions sucked. His weekday decisions sucked. And his playing OLD over YOUNG sucked.

"Yeah but Shurmur went 4-11."

Yep, sure did. But he did it with a MUCH younger roster, with NO offseason, and both the stud RB and backup RB out.

This 1st season with Shurmur and the 1st season with Mangie are night and day by comparison.

He had it figured out alright - how not to keep a job.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Legacy Fan

1)He's hired people to do those tasks, and so far, THEY SUCK AT IT.

2) Holmgren is no longer a coach, a GM, nor a QB guru/coach

1) Depends upon the glasses you wear. I don't think for a second that Tom Heckert sucks or that Pat Shurmur sucks. It is easier to believe that Heckert doesn't suck than that Shurmur doesn't suck, but suckage can be relative. Sometimes the suckage is SO bad there is no question about its depth. From what you seem to be saying is there is no difference between the previous suckage and this suckage and I will have to resspectively disagree. Not for love of Mike Holmgren - but because of the drafts and the youth.

2) Uh dude, you don't stop being a franchise QB guru. You either are a great developer of the positon or you aren't, but there is no off switch. Come on now, this guy has coached or developed/discovered Joe Montana, Steve Young, Matt Hassleback, Brett Favre, Mark Brunell. Who else has a roster like that of QB's developed? Someone please tell me who out there in the last 30-40 years that has a QB resume like Mike motherfucking Holmgren. Save yourself the trouble - NOBODY has this guys resume --- it's not even close. Not even in the ballpark.

Oh and he also develops coaches, Ray Rhodes, Steve Mariucci, Andy Reid, Dick Jauron, Jon Gruden.
(may not mean much but Belichick has a tree worth shit - at least Andy Reid went to the SB, and Jon Gruden won a SB. Bills tree has how many playoff apperances????)

His coaching mentors???
BYU - the great LaVell Edwards
SF - the great Bill Walsh
(both coaches of football champs!!)

His championship resume?
College Player -- USC 1967 Nat'l Champs
College Coach -- BYU 1984 Nat'l Champs
NFL Asst Coach -- 49ers Super Bowl Champs (XXIII and XIV)
Head Coach -- Green Bay Packers Super Bowl Champs (XXXI) and runner up (XXXII)
Head Coach -- Seattle Seahwaks Super Bowl runner up (XL)


He was also Prep-Player of the year in high school, and was drafted by the Cardinals in the 8th round in 1970.

Do you see a common denominator? Yeah thats right -- winning. Not just winning a lot of games, but winning it ALL. At every fucking level. Everywhere this guy has gone he has won the ultimate championship at the pinnacle division in each level.

HS
College
Pros

WON
IT
ALL

And did it in convincing fashion. And then went back and did it again. And then moved to a different team and did it again.

Green Bay was awful. As in non-relevant in their sport. BAM! 2 Super Bowls.
Seattle was awful. As in non-relevant in their sport. BAM! Super Bowl
Cleveland awful. As in non-relevant in their sport. BAM! "He sucks!" Huh?


And yet somehow, someway, he has come to Cleveland and turned into a total fucking moron, forgot how a team wins a championship at ANY fucking level, let alone the NFL.

He develops HOF QB's (college HOF and NFL HOF) but somehow when he comes to Cleveland and drinks the local water he turns into an retard judge of QB talent.

LMAO -- only in Cleveland I swear to god. ONLY IN CLEVELAND!

People please.

The man won at the HS level, the college level, and the NFL level. And his teams didn't get lucky or win by flukes. They fucking dominated and were awesome. Literally he was part of innovative and powerful offenses that were never stopped.

He comes from the great coaching tree of Paul Brown, Sid Gilman and Bill Walsh.

Nigga please. GIVE ME A MOTHERFUCKING BREAK already. This is the closest your generation will ever come as Browns fans to the genius we had with Paul Brown. Not quite mind you but close.

So tell me was Paul Brown a fucking moron as President of the Bengals when he took the team to the Super Bowl not once but twice in the 80's?

Fucking Browns fans talking shit like Holmgren lost it or never had it.

LMMFAO!! Nigga puh-lease bounce that shit outta here.