Game Managers, Defense and Special Teams

[Riffer X]

Was just proven as the formula that can still get you to where you want to be. We were a smidgen away from having a defensive slugfest for a Super Bowl with two game managers in Alex Smith and Flacc of Seagulls.

In a year with record setting QB performances, those guys were sitting home. Eli had his best season and has turned into a great QB, but he is also doing it with some serious weapons around him. Truth be told, NE's defense stepped it up toward the end of the season and Brady didn't do anything special, Balitmore blew it in a very Cleveland like fashion. I mean, they had the game won and then missed a chippy FG, that kind of stuff only happens in Cleveland it seems. Karma perhaps??

San Fran's special teams cost them the game, hands down. It was a special teams that was great all year with Seeley but losing Ginn cost them. That is how close things are in the NFL. For all those that are still stuck on a wonder kid QB coming in and taking this franchise to the promised land, this year proved again it is about the sum of the parts.

We have a great opportunity this offseason to take the next step to be a more complete football team, and to do that we need to utilize all our picks or obtain even more, sign some impact FA's with upside (mot blowing the cap open again), and fortify some weak areas. This is doable, but we definitely need some playmakers here to help this offense and Colt. We all know that, I am not telling any Browns fan anything they don't already know, but we need to keep perspective on this.

Good, solid and fundamental football still wins in this league and always will. It will put you in the hunt, and when the scheming for big playoff games takes place, the record setting QB's aren't playing regular season games in great weather anymore. This is why you need all the elements and a solid QB who does what it takes to win, along with solid coaching and mistake free football.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Was just proven as the formula that can still get you to where you want to be. We were a smidgen away from having a defensive slugfest for a Super Bowl with two game managers in Alex Smith and Flacc of Seagulls.

In a year with record setting QB performances, those guys were sitting home. Eli had his best season and has turned into a great QB, but he is also doing it with some serious weapons around him. Truth be told, NE's defense stepped it up toward the end of the season and Brady didn't do anything special, Balitmore blew it in a very Cleveland like fashion. I mean, they had the game won and then missed a chippy FG, that kind of stuff only happens in Cleveland it seems. Karma perhaps??

San Fran's special teams cost them the game, hands down. It was a special teams that was great all year with Seeley but losing Ginn cost them. That is how close things are in the NFL. For all those that are still stuck on a wonder kid QB coming in and taking this franchise to the promised land, this year proved again it is about the sum of the parts.

We have a great opportunity this offseason to take the next step to be a more complete football team, and to do that we need to utilize all our picks or obtain even more, sign some impact FA's with upside (mot blowing the cap open again), and fortify some weak areas. This is doable, but we definitely need some playmakers here to help this offense and Colt. We all know that, I am not telling any Browns fan anything they don't already know, but we need to keep perspective on this.

Good, solid and fundamental football still wins in this league and always will. It will put you in the hunt, and when the scheming for big playoff games takes place, the record setting QB's aren't playing regular season games in great weather anymore. This is why you need all the elements and a solid QB who does what it takes to win, along with solid coaching and mistake free football.

Well done! For the Superbowl, we got the football version of the Red Sox vrs Yankees.

Should be good.

[Sez.EJ]

How did I know I would come here and find an Alex Smith related post today ha ha ha. The guy who completed all of 3 passes to his WR's in a championship game.. Game manager is right.. He does make those 1 or 2 good throws a game for big plays.. I will give him that.. He is a good game manager and is capable of making plays.. However, he is not the guy who will LEAD the team with his arm.. Flacco is much of the same.. I agree. I think Flacco has more upside though.

It's going to be a good superbowl. The Giants are just stacked at WR.. If Nicks is healthy.. Nicks, Manningham and Cruz are an amazing 3 to have out in patterns.

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

For all those that are still stuck on a wonder kid QB coming in and taking this franchise to the promised land, this year proved again it is about the sum of the parts.

Yes, because those of us who actually want talent at the most important position in football think that we'll just plug him in and we're off to the Superbowl ...that's the ticket. You are really misrepresenting those who want this team to take a step forward rather than settling for the status quo at the QB position.

Somehow some of you guys seem to think our common sense doesn't tell us we need to upgrade many positions. What I fail to understand is how your common sense doesn't tell you that getting a shot at one of the 2 best QBs in the draft, a guy who has it all ...the arm, the brains, the character, the wheels, the intangibles ...doesn't come along very often. If all you McCoy apologists think this team will improve to even 6 wins next season with Colt under center, then you are also gambling a huge amount on making Colt your franchise QB. 6 wins will not get one of the top 2 QBs in the draft. If Colt fails like he more than likely will ...you're talking about drafting the 3rd or 4th or worse QBs in the draft trying to hit on your franchise guy. Logic tells you that lowers your chances of getting that stud.

We are taking a bigger risk by leaving Colt McCoy under center and betting on him, then in drafting an elite prospect @ QB while we can, especially now that you don't have to ruin your cap to do so.

Take THE guy while you can.

And what's great about this free agency crop is you can REALLY upgrade your WR crop, as well as your defense if you go out and get the right guys.

If we do this right, we'll have a QBOTF with an unlimited ceiling, either a young #1 speed demon of a WR, or a pass rushing DE or LB, and a stud RT ...starting for us next year, all with your 1st 3 picks, not even looking at the rest of the draft & FA!

IMO it'll be RG3 or a trade down. Too many other options @ WR to waste that pick there. (unless we pull off grabbing Luck)

[Riffer X]

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

Yes, because those of us who actually want talent at the most important position in football think that we'll just plug him in and we're off the the Superbowl ...that's the ticket. You are really misrepresenting those who want this team to take a step forward rather than settling for the status quo at the QB position.

Touchy, but apparently you haven't been hearing or listening to a lot of folks who do indeed think it is all about the QB. Seriously?

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

Somehow some of you guys seem to think our common sense doesn't tell us we need to upgrade many positions. What I fail to understand is how your common sense doesn't tell you that getting a shot at one of the 2 best QBs in the draft, a guy who has it all ...the arm, the brains, the character, the wheels, the intangibles ...doesn't come along very often.

Speaking in absolutes again I see. You are assuming many things about the greatness of RG!!!, and I am not at all. I will let it play out and see what the real experts think about this kid, and if you are even thinking about trading up for him, then you can kiss goodbye some real chances to fortify those other positions. Even if you think he will be there at pick 4, that is one less chance at getting a big time defference maker in here and just rotating QB's. Colt will probably still start anyway, and what happens if he does make huge leaps? You just missed a chance for a stud and took a guy to sit pine.

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

If all you McCoy apologists think this team will improve to even 6 wins next season with Colt under center, then you are also gambling a huge amount on making Colt your franchise QB. 6 wins will not get one of the top 2 QBs in the draft. If Colt fails like he more than likely will ...you're talking about drafting the 3rd or 4th or worse QBs in the draft trying to hit on your franchise guy. Logic tells you that lowers your chances of getting that stud.

Again with the absolutes and doing the exact same thing you just accused me of but worse. That is fine, I can play. Calling me an apologist is about as asinine as it gets. You obviously have your mind made up and feel the kid got a fair shot this year under this garbage. so why bother arguing it? You got RGIII ranked as better than McCoy already, and if you think we are going to win shit with him here next year that is crazy, it is going to be growing pains out the ass with this kid if he even manages to stay healthy and does start over Colt.

What exactly did you like about our offensive firepower that Colt had to work with this year? Was it the awesome play of Lauvoa, RT and Pinky? How about the nice turnstile at RB? Then we always have Greg Little as the number one, an idiot in Momass masquerading as a pro trying to run a simple route and hybrid TE's who always have concussions. You got to be kidding me right? Then again Shurms was reminding everybody of Mike Martz with his playcalling.

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

We are taking a bigger risk by leaving Colt McCoy under center and betting on him, then in drafting an elite prospect @ QB while we can, especially now that you don't have to ruin your cap to do so. Take THE guy while you can.

No we are not, QB's can be found farther down in the draft (not necessarily top five) and in the meantime you get to see if your small investment in Colt pays off while you nail some real impact guys. Again, you are giving Griffen god like status and he hasn't even been through an offseason drill yet. There will always be other QB's out there, you just have to know how to get them and the guys drafted highest are not always the answer---no need to list all the failures again, Flugs has done plenty of that. You want to panic, I don't. Colt has shown plenty that he can grow and this league has tons of examples of QB's stepping it up with experience and some decent talent around him.

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

And what's great about this free agency crop is you can REALLY upgrade your WR crop, as well as your defense if you go out and get the right guys.

Ah, the old "let's blow all our cap space by overpaying guys who are just dying to come here and play under a rookie QB or a team without a sure starter". It would be great to get a good and young FA receiver, and should be a priority, but when you take Griffen, you just removed a very talented rookie WR from the equation or a real difference maker like a RT etc.

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

If we do this right, we'll have a QBOTF with an unlimited ceiling, either a young #1 speed demon of a WR, or a pass rushing DE or LB, and a stud RT ...starting for us next year, all with your 1st 3 picks, not even looking at the rest of the draft & FA!

That could be true if Griffen is the absolute real deal and convinces those paid dearly to decide that. You are assuming that, I am not. You have also made your mind up that Colt is garbage, and I totally and completely disagree. Your equation removes either that DE that could propel our defense to another stratosphere or the RT that we have been missing for years.

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

IMO it'll be RG3 or a trade down. Too many other options @ WR to waste that pick there. (unless we pull off grabbing Luck)

I would be all for a trade down if Blackmon is gone, but I am not sure passing on kalil is a good idea either. I need to find out more about him to see if he is truly dominant and can convert to RT successfully. A trade down unfortunately is going to throw the fanbase and media like the Grosster into a negative tailspin, but if it is the right thing to do, then do it. Say no to Richardson at four, but given the way these guys treated Hillis, I doubt they would ever take an RB that high---nor should they.

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

Wow, you misrepresent "all those" who want to draft a QB as believing he alone will take us to the "promised land" and I respond to it and that makes me touchy? I haven't seen a single person state we are a QB away from winning a Superbowl. Not a single one. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Absolutes? Um, didn't utter one single absolute.

Ever heard of a prospect? That's what I called RG3 ...how is that an absolute?

Again, logic not to mention common sense suggests if you can draft the cream of the crop at the top of the draft, irregardless of the position, you are more likely to hit there than later on. All the useless lists in the world do not prove your point. For every top 5 QB who has failed in this league you guys list, we can list 100s who have failed everywhere else in the draft ...so? Those lists illustrate nothing other than every once in a long while you can find a needle in a haystack and land a good starting NFL QB later in the draft. Um, OK ...I guess we and all other teams should just pass on all QBs until at best round 2 from here on out. Weird logic.

And who here called Colt garbage? He'll be a really solid backup after Wallace is gone ...maybe even win us some games if he ever has to step in for the starter.

Let me ask you this, if we tried to trade Colt McCoy right now, what could we get for him? Maybe a 4th rounder? Whether he has the weapons or not, you can analyze the QB ...he's had enough time to show me he's certainly not elite at anything, can't really think of anything he is above average at, can peg a few things he's been very average at, and a handful of things he's been sub-par at. Unless we're scoring him on locker room speeches about putting hay in the barn ...that's the stuff of legends.

Hey, I thought the kid might have what it took in the NCO ...although towards the end of year one I was beginning to have doubts. Then, I bought into the ridiculous notion that he was born to be a WCO QB (why I don't know) and he failed miserably there in many areas ...weapons or not.

You saw what an above average (maybe some would say elite) QB can still manage to do in the face of relentless pressure in Eli Manning this past game ...guess what, he still made his reads, went through his progressions, and delivered the ball in stride to his receivers even with guys harassing him all night. McCoy doesn't even do those things with adequate protection.

I really wanted to believe in 3rd round miracles too, I wanted the next Drew Brees ...I was right there with you guys, but now we have a shot at a legitimate franchise QB and the last one we rolled the dice on I thought was pretty darned good. I'd love to see what Couch could do with this team in his prime.

*I should add to this ...defense & special teams, a thousand times yes. It's downright unacceptable for how far our special teams has fallen in one single year. What's the excuse there ...different system? Pathetic.

[Riffer X]

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

Wow, you misrepresent "all those" who want to draft a QB as believing he alone will take us to the "promised land" and I respond to it and that makes me touchy? I haven't seen a single person state we are a QB away from winning a Superbowl. Not a single one. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Oh come on, this board isn't the only way to gauge Browns fans and you know that, you listen to sport talk etc plus I live around here.

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

Absolutes? Um, didn't utter one single absolute.

Uh, calling guys apologists would be considered an absolute and in some cases from a cocky perspective a slam at some otherwise really knowledgeable football fans intelligence.

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

Duh.

Yeah, and duh also can mean blowing a top pick......duh!

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

Weird logic.

There is no "weird logic", it is called being patient with a young QB and giving him a chance with some actual talent and a year to implement an offense.

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

And who here called Colt garbage? He'll be a really solid backup after Wallace is gone ...maybe even win us some games if he ever has to step in for the starter.

Garbage, too short, no arm, says prayers in the locker room, whatever you want to call it.

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

Let me ask you this, if we tried to trade Colt McCoy right now, what could we get for him? Maybe a 4th rounder? Whether he has the weapons or not, you can analyze the QB ...he's had enough time to show me he's certainly not elite at anything, can't really think of anything he is above average at, can peg a few things he's been very average at, and a handful of things he's been sub-par at. Unless we're scoring him on locker room speeches about putting hay in the barn ...that's the stuff of legends.

You don't get shit for anybody when it comes to draft picks unless they have had success, which Colt hasn't because of an offense that was on the level of 99. You can get picks for unproven guys or those who had some quick success with an already talented team---see Kolb, Kevin, and the latest stud Flynn, Matty. Real bad attempt there, especially for a guy drafted in the late third.

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

Hey, I thought the kid might have what it took in the NCO ...although towards the end of year one I was beginning to have doubts. Then, I bought into the ridiculous notion that he was born to be a WCO QB (why I don't know) and he failed miserably there in many areas ...weapons or not.

This we agree on. I think he is born to run a play action style pro set, but I also think he can adopt to this WCO crap once he has some guys who can run a route and catch, along with having a handle on things that he obviously didn't last year and nobody in the league would have.

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

You saw what an above average (maybe some would say elite) QB can still manage to do in the face of relentless pressure in Eli Manning this past game ...guess what, he still made his reads, went through his progressions, and delivered the ball in stride to his receivers even with guys harassing him all night. McCoy doesn't even do those things with adequate protection.

This was Eli's 8th year in the league and you did happen to notice the three receivers he throws to right? Sometimes it helps when you have guys get open in the same offense you have been running for years when under pressure. It's the little things.

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

I really wanted to believe in 3rd round miracles too, I wanted the next Drew Brees ...I was right there with you guys, but now we have a shot at a legitimate franchise QB and the last one we rolled the dice on I thought was pretty darned good. I'd love to see what Couch could do with this team in his prime.

I was always a Couch fan, but I don't see how a third rounder is considered a miracle. What I see is people not giving him the same fair shake that they would a highly drafted guy. This kid deserves another year, what he had to work with this season was a crime. plain and simple. Get some freaking talent in here and give him a fair shot, we have too many other needs. I just pointed out that Flacco and Smith should both be in the SB and I don't think either is better than what Colt could be with some help. Do you see any Vernon Davis' or Torey Smith's running around out there in Brown err white and orange trim?

Some of us predicted that fans would blame this season on Colt when it was obvious what a disaster it was and sure as shit, here we are. The funny thing is, I am open to RGIII if he shows his wares and some other options, but I don't like the fact people have basically scapegoated Colt and made assumptions about him given what he showed under Mangie and what he had to work with this year. He outplayed Bradford this year folks.

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

Riff, let me first say ...great to have you getting into some discussions again, you have been missed.

I would also like to point out, you skipped past many of my central points ...but fair enough. Let me address a few of your rebuttals.

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Oh come on, this board isn't the only way to gauge Browns fans and you know that, you listen to sport talk etc plus I live around here.

I'll grant you that ...but I guess I am just arguing from a Barking Hard position.

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Uh, calling guys apologists would be considered an absolute and in some cases from a cocky perspective a slam at some otherwise really knowledgeable football fans intelligence.

I disagree, but we're arguing semantics. You are an apologist for Colt McCoy, as you defend him as your guy, and make excuses for him as to why he has underwhelmed thus far. That's really the definition of an apologist, but if you don't like the word or it offends I'll certainly stop using it.

Originally Posted by Riffer X

There is no "weird logic", it is called being patient with a young QB and giving him a chance with some actual talent and a year to implement an offense.

Whether he's young, or is lacking talent is really not the point. I'm not seeing him do some basic things a legit NFL starting QB needs to be able to do. It's bothering me. I don't need to see him throwing to Larry Fitzgerald to come to the conclusion the he is having trouble going through his reads, or not attempting to go through them at all. I don't need to see him surrounded by talent to want to shake my head at comments about being pushed too hard. I don't need to see him surrounded by talent to understand that he is throwing behind or to the wrong spots far too often. Yes, I understand some of that is the crap WRs he is throwing to, but some of it isn't. The list goes on ....

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Yeah, and duh also can mean blowing a top pick......duh!

So true! And we'll be taking that risk no matter what position we go after @ 4.

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Garbage, too short, no arm, says prayers in the locker room, whatever you want to call it.

Yah, I think you are reffering to things outside the realm of BH again, or perhaps referring to former members. He has way to many other concerns to argue non concerns like that, although height & arm are nice ...they aren't the end all be all, at least not for me.

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Colt hasn't because of an offense that was on the level of 99.

I agree ...and I'm sorry, as tough as I have been on Shurmur, Colt shoulders part of this. Colt has not made the players around him better. Colt has not demanded excellence. Colt has not taken his team by the scruff of the neck and let them have it for lazy or inadequate practice & play.

For all of Colts bluster during the preseason about how he had the playbook down, I sure didn't see that during the regular season. If he truly did have the playbook nailed as he claimed ...man he should have done better. I'm sorry, but I think if Colt wants a chance to be a starter in this league, he needs someone who is going to push him to the limits and squeeze every last ounce of talent out of him ...that's not going to happen with this coaching staff. We need a QB who can transcend this soft group of football coaches and FO types by using his raw God given talent to make them look better than they are. That's really my only hope for these guys right now.

Originally Posted by Riffer X

What I see is people not giving him the same fair shake that they would a highly drafted guy. This kid deserves another year, what he had to work with this season was a crime. plain and simple.

I think he's had a very fair shot ...and perhaps, really I would say more than likely; if our former coach was here he'd be our starter next year because we would be coming off of at least a .500 season and we wouldn't be in the position we are to draft a kid who has it all, and who helped his school achieve things it hadn't in over 100 years.

Let's face it, Colt looked promising in his rookie year in last years system ...with what he has claimed was ZERO preparation via playing with the ones and/or having the playbook or whatever it was he claimed in his book. Colt was up at the line last season, barking out audibles and looking much more like a legit NFL prospect than he ever even sniffed this season in this system and under this coaching.

That's after a full season of learning the system, and having the playbook, and working with the ones. Like it or not, we are running what we are, and we have the type of coaches we have. If Colt ever had a chance at success in this elite league, it was extinguished when Holmgren took this team in the direction he did. Perhaps Colt will resurrect his career if he ever finds that again, be he still imo does not possess the talent nor the ceiling that RG3 has.

Originally Posted by Riffer X

I just pointed out that Flacco and Smith should both be in the SB and I don't think either is better than what Colt could be with some help.

Flacco & Smith both have tools McCoy does not possess. That being said, I don't think either is a great QB, and hey if we are willing to wait for 9 years while we surround Colt with elite talent before we can be contenders in the playoffs and land a coach like Harbaugh ...I guess that's one way to go about it. I'd rather have the best players possible at all positions, especially the most important.

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Some of us predicted that fans would blame this season on Colt when it was obvious what a disaster it was and sure as shit, here we are.

Those people are idiots. We have far too many problems to peg anything solely on one position, even if it is QB. Luckily I don't see anybody doing that on BH! (was never a fan of Bradford btw, but there were a lot of excuses over there for his play as well)

[Tobalaz]

It's getting tough to read in here again, certain posters are starting to drop into camp qb, and the rest of us are getting labeled "Colt guys." It's starting to sound a whole lot like "Quinn fags" to me.
I'm sure almost everyone here would be thrilled with Luck, hell, I would.
Problem is, with all the holes we have, many of us see it a waste of a pick tossing yet another project into the fire with no protection on the right and no weapons.
It's been pointed out time and time again in thread after thread, how most successful teams build a team with a journeyman qb while building a cockpit and defense. No successful team started with the qb, and no successful qb was successful without weapons and protection.

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

Don't think we're starting with the QB. We're a few pieces away from a talented offense ...that's it. Kind of crazy people can't have an opinion about drafting a QB here without people getting up in arms.

Relax and enjoy the off season. I'll continue to debate on upgrading our talent across the board, QB included especially when we have a shot at a special one ..."project" is your opinion which you are entitled to. You won't find me starting 1000 threads about it though, I promise.

[mikeyP]

Anyone but D.A.

That guy sucked, balls.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

Colt has not made the players around him better. Colt has not demanded excellence.

Did Steve Young make anyone in Tampa Bay better in his first 2 years of starting Gabe? I'm glad you're honest you would have cut him for that.

Did John Elway make anyone on Denver better in his first 2-3 years? Thank you for being honest you would have found great reason to cut him too.

Did Drew Brees make anyone before Antonio Gates and Keenan McCardell better in his first 3 years? I'm glad you're honest when you could have accurately predicted there would have never been a Superbowl Championship or an MVP season in his future because he made NOBODY better in his first 3 years of starting.

Did Troy Aikman make anyone in Dallas better in his first 2 years of starting? When they went 1-15 they could have drafted a QB and many of their fans just like you wanted that QB up if they weren't already thinking Steve Walsh was the answer.

It seems like there's alot of fans today that pay no attention to the history of this game and what a young QB going to a bad franchise goes through. Those QBs I exemplified above are either in the Hall of Fame or will be very soon for their levels of excellence. ALL won Superbowls and frequented Pro Bowls. Early on, they had people like you Gabe saying their franchise just needed to draft another QB because they weren't performing miracles in the first 32 starts. Do you remember how pissed you were at Stuckey the day he fumbled away the OT game to the NY Jets at their 30 yard line? I saw enough promise in McCoy in 2010 to excuse throwing into a crowded phone booth in 2011.

Right now, we don't know if RGIII is the next Akili Smith or the next Michael Vick. I do know RGIII had to medical red shirt for an ACL blowout and left a 2011 game early for a concussion; and the backup put up great stats when he got to play. I also know how often Michael Vick can't answer the bell on game day. I just see a collision course with James Harrison if we draft the QB draw.

If the NFL was ANYTHING like the Big 12 - don't you think we'd have 1 example of excellence at QB to talk about by now? Clearly we don't so you want to throw out this Big 12 QB and draft the next one? What's gonna be different this time?

I WANT Andrew Luck but that doesn't mean I gotta pretend the second highest rated QB has to be in his class. You gotta be careful. I was once the BIGGEST Vince Young fan; because I read he was the #1 rated PASSER (not a misprint) in Division IA after his final season as a junior. In the pros, he was successful all the way up until a hammy/groin sentenced him to being a pocket passer. As you saw Roethlisberger confined to a pogostick - what happens when an improvise king gets handcuffed to the pocket and play wired into the huddle? He's a fraction of what he was.

Long story short, the Big 12 ALWAYS has a cluster of guys with the highest passer ratings. Unfortunately, what happens when they all get to the NFL? Defense, closing speeds and contested routes = culture shock and overhelm. YES, we currently have a Big 12 QB at the affordable rate of round 3 exchange value. I don't feel comfortable throwing him out of the batter's box at strike 2 for the reasons I specified above ONLY to look right back at the Big 12. AGAIN, I'm a huge Andrew Luck fan looking at the supply of Andrew Lucks for a team slated to draft #4.