It seems that you are unregistered. Please register with us by clicking here.
Barking Hard - Cleveland Browns Forum  
Go Back   Barking Hard - Cleveland Browns Forum > NFL > The Cleveland Browns
Click to log in with Facebook Barking Hard Fan Club Forum Group @ Twitter

The Cleveland Browns Place for all discussion about our beloved Browns.


Heath Evans rips Holmgren, praises Belichick for building teams. #Browns #NFL

The Cleveland Browns


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2012
TheBestPlayersPlay's Avatar
Die-Hard
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Massillon, Ohio
Posts: 3,359
Blog Entries: 3
Rep Power: 33
TheBestPlayersPlay has disabled reputation
Default Heath Evans rips Holmgren, praises Belichick for building teams. #Browns #NFL

Pretty much saying what a few of us already knew. Poor Browns fan.



Quote:
INDIANAPOLIS — Heath Evans could be bitter about Bill Belichick. He allowed Evans to walk in free agency after four of his most productive seasons with the Patriots.
But Evans, now a budding star on NFL Network, says if he ever was in charge of building a team, he would do it the way Belichick has with the Patriots. Evans was a member of the Patriots' last Super Bowl team in 2008, facing the Giants. Now, only seven players who played in that game will play this Sunday.
Four years, 46 new players. That team was considered to be on the verge of being called the greatest NFL team ever, an eyelash away from 19-0. This year's Patriots team went 13-3 in the regular season and is 2-0 in the playoffs.
The Patriots might not be the most likeable team, and Belichick is Enemy No. 1 in a lot of circles, but Evans thinks the coach does things the way they have to be done.
"You can't argue with Bill's success," Evans said. "You see these cyclical teams: They get hot and they die off. Well, the Patriots have been hot since 2001. Even in their bad years, they go 11-5 and miss the playoffs in 2008. The Giants would have died to be 11-5 this year."
The way Evans would not run a team is the way Mike Holmgren did in Seattle. Holmgren was Evans' coach for his first four seasons in the NFL, from 2001 to 2004, before he signed with New England. Evans said he was "ready to retire" because of the clubhouse cancers he encountered in Seattle, and he blames Holmgren for fostering that kind of environment.
"Bunch of selfish guys," Evans said. "Everything from racism to 'I want the ball' to 'It's all about me.' Bad locker room."
Evans said what separates Belichick from Holmgren — and from almost any other head coach he has been around — was accountability.
"Mike Holmgren didn't coach his star players," Evans said. "It's really kind of true. The most talented football teams I was ever on were those Seahawks teams. But they were complete failures. A lack of consistency, a lack of discipline. Mike was mad at Shaun Alexander for skipping a non-mandatory minicamp, but instead of calling Shaun or reaming him out, he finds me buck naked in the shower and reams me out in front of everybody else. Because I was the 'yes, sir, no, sir' Marine Corps daddy guy.
"I wish I would have done it my first year, but I finally said, 'For four years you have mistaken my respect as weakness. Don't ever talk to me that way again.' It really changed my relationship with him for the last three weeks of my career in Seattle. I couldn't get out of there fast enough."
And leave he did, signing with the Patriots (after being cut by the Dolphins after only six games in 2005) and playing three years in New England, racking up some of his best career rushing numbers in four seasons there. But the way Evans tells it, individual achievements have nothing to do with the reason he respects Belichick so much. It was the way that he put pressure on every player never to make mental mistakes. Physical ones happen, and Belichick can live with those. But not knowing what you are doing on a given play? Simply not tolerated.
"I don't remember ever getting reamed out for making a physical mistake," Evans said. "But I remember getting railroaded for not doing what I was supposed to. But it was (that way) for everybody. Tom Brady, all the way down.
"As a young player, you see, 'Hey, I am not the only one.' There's a consistency level that frees your team to be a team and a family. When Brady is getting reamed out just like the 53rd man on the roster, you feel a tightness and a oneness with the group. But when your star players are untouchables and you see them make mistake after mistake after mistake and there is no calling them out or accountability, the young players look back and say, 'I don't respect that man.'"
That approach has changed the way Evans approaches his new job. He spent last week in Mobile, Ala. for the Senior Bowl, doing analysis for the network. While he was there, he found himself scouting the prospects with a distinctly Belichickian eye, thinking about all the characteristics he'd want if Evans was putting together a roster.
"I'd look at character, I'd look at intangibles and I would look at work ethic," Evans said. "Prime example: Quinton Coples, this big, awesome (defensive) end from UNC. I doubt Bill would touch him with a 10-foot pole. All the talent in the world but had this nonchalant attitude all week during the Senior Bowl.
"I was watching and I thought, 'You know ... he has all the ability in the world, but I would be highly surprised if he is in the league in four years.' Truth of the matter is, he'll probably get picked in the first 10 picks (of the draft) and someone will let him hang around for 10 years, but if he doesn't change his work ethic and learn how to attack the game, he will not be successful on the NFL level."
The influence of Bill Belichick is far-reaching, and Evans thinks he knows why.
"It all comes down to discipline, structure and humility. People say, 'What do you mean humility with Bill Belichick?' Humility to me is a guy laying it all on the line so that others can get the praise. That's what Bill does. It works."
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2012
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,253
Rep Power: 36
golfer704u has a reputation beyond reputegolfer704u has a reputation beyond reputegolfer704u has a reputation beyond reputegolfer704u has a reputation beyond reputegolfer704u has a reputation beyond reputegolfer704u has a reputation beyond reputegolfer704u has a reputation beyond reputegolfer704u has a reputation beyond reputegolfer704u has a reputation beyond reputegolfer704u has a reputation beyond reputegolfer704u has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Yep the way Evans describes him is EXACTLY the way I see a guy like Senneca Wallace got his attitude.

Can't wait to see the appolgists attack Evans.
__________________
"You can spout all you want about 'facts' and you can stroke your ego by thinking you know oh so much more about football than anyone else...or you can get your head out of your ass and realize that your opinion is worth what I paid for it. Nothing. Just the same as mine." -HIGHWAYGAL
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2012
TheBestPlayersPlay's Avatar
Die-Hard
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Massillon, Ohio
Posts: 3,359
Blog Entries: 3
Rep Power: 33
TheBestPlayersPlay has disabled reputation
Default

We can only hope that Shurmur is his own man ....as unlikely as that is. If he was, I'm sure he wouldn't have the job.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2012
Senior Member
Practice Squad
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 146
Rep Power: 14
choco has much to be proud ofchoco has much to be proud ofchoco has much to be proud ofchoco has much to be proud ofchoco has much to be proud ofchoco has much to be proud ofchoco has much to be proud ofchoco has much to be proud of
Default

seems to collaborate with the incident with alexander when he missed the rushing title by one yard.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2012
Sez.EJ's Avatar
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 4,338
Rep Power: 47
Sez.EJ is a Barking Hard 'core' memberSez.EJ is a Barking Hard 'core' memberSez.EJ is a Barking Hard 'core' memberSez.EJ is a Barking Hard 'core' memberSez.EJ is a Barking Hard 'core' memberSez.EJ is a Barking Hard 'core' memberSez.EJ is a Barking Hard 'core' memberSez.EJ is a Barking Hard 'core' memberSez.EJ is a Barking Hard 'core' memberSez.EJ is a Barking Hard 'core' memberSez.EJ is a Barking Hard 'core' member
Default

Apologist comment #1.. Evans was given the heave ho by big Mike. He was an average to good player only but this sounds like sour grapes. Where are the other guys saying this? Besides.. this has nothing to do with Mike being a president..that was when he was coach..so it really does not apply here anyway.
__________________
***************************
Individuals win trophies. TEAMS win Championships!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2012
damajuki's Avatar
Gopher
Backup QB
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Bull City
Posts: 995
Rep Power: 22
damajuki has a reputation beyond reputedamajuki has a reputation beyond reputedamajuki has a reputation beyond reputedamajuki has a reputation beyond reputedamajuki has a reputation beyond reputedamajuki has a reputation beyond reputedamajuki has a reputation beyond reputedamajuki has a reputation beyond reputedamajuki has a reputation beyond reputedamajuki has a reputation beyond reputedamajuki has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Great article, TBPP. Also another insight on what Mangini was attempting to do. Maybe he couldn't do it well or maybe it wouldn't have worked, but this is another insight into what Mangini's view of football was.

Hope Shurmur knows better than Holmgren did how to keep order in his locker room.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2012
TheBestPlayersPlay's Avatar
Die-Hard
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Massillon, Ohio
Posts: 3,359
Blog Entries: 3
Rep Power: 33
TheBestPlayersPlay has disabled reputation
Default

If only Lerner could have landed Parcells instead of Holmgren, then all would be right in the world.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2012
Legacy Fan's Avatar
Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,203
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 24
Legacy Fan has a reputation beyond reputeLegacy Fan has a reputation beyond reputeLegacy Fan has a reputation beyond reputeLegacy Fan has a reputation beyond reputeLegacy Fan has a reputation beyond reputeLegacy Fan has a reputation beyond reputeLegacy Fan has a reputation beyond reputeLegacy Fan has a reputation beyond reputeLegacy Fan has a reputation beyond reputeLegacy Fan has a reputation beyond reputeLegacy Fan has a reputation beyond repute
Default

This makes me physically ill. Ugh.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2012
Tobalaz's Avatar
Merc with a mouth
Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hell froze over
Posts: 1,833
Rep Power: 25
Tobalaz has a reputation beyond reputeTobalaz has a reputation beyond reputeTobalaz has a reputation beyond reputeTobalaz has a reputation beyond reputeTobalaz has a reputation beyond reputeTobalaz has a reputation beyond reputeTobalaz has a reputation beyond reputeTobalaz has a reputation beyond reputeTobalaz has a reputation beyond reputeTobalaz has a reputation beyond reputeTobalaz has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by damajuki View Post
Great article, TBPP. Also another insight on what Mangini was attempting to do. Maybe he couldn't do it well or maybe it wouldn't have worked, but this is another insight into what Mangini's view of football was.

Hope Shurmur knows better than Holmgren did how to keep order in his locker room.
Yup, EM got the whole being an ass, gameday planning and making people accountable parts down pat, but his clock management and adjustment skills left A LOT to be desired.
I just hope we don't go back to the Romeo days of the inmates running the asylum.
__________________
Myself: "If you find no one listens when you talk to them, just start talking to yourself instead, then, everyone listens."
Scott Glenn: "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything."
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2012
Senior Member
Practice Squad
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 146
Rep Power: 14
choco has much to be proud ofchoco has much to be proud ofchoco has much to be proud ofchoco has much to be proud ofchoco has much to be proud ofchoco has much to be proud ofchoco has much to be proud ofchoco has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sez.EJ View Post
Apologist comment #1.. Evans was given the heave ho by big Mike. He was an average to good player only but this sounds like sour grapes. Where are the other guys saying this? Besides.. this has nothing to do with Mike being a president..that was when he was coach..so it really does not apply here anyway.
im not so sure one's people skills/management style would change so drastically as for this to not be a concern.

if he plays favorites, the same can apply to anyone working under him.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2012
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,253
Rep Power: 36
golfer704u has a reputation beyond reputegolfer704u has a reputation beyond reputegolfer704u has a reputation beyond reputegolfer704u has a reputation beyond reputegolfer704u has a reputation beyond reputegolfer704u has a reputation beyond reputegolfer704u has a reputation beyond reputegolfer704u has a reputation beyond reputegolfer704u has a reputation beyond reputegolfer704u has a reputation beyond reputegolfer704u has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sez.EJ View Post
Apologist comment #1.. Evans was given the heave ho by big Mike. He was an average to good player only but this sounds like sour grapes. Where are the other guys saying this? Besides.. this has nothing to do with Mike being a president..that was when he was coach..so it really does not apply here anyway.
This is the comment I thought would be made. And it's a semi-valid one. Evans is not an all star player and he probably did have a grudge against Holmgren.

But let me ask you this. Cna you show me ANY OTHER COACH, where a player comes out BY NAME, not annonymously and says things THIS BAD against him?
__________________
"You can spout all you want about 'facts' and you can stroke your ego by thinking you know oh so much more about football than anyone else...or you can get your head out of your ass and realize that your opinion is worth what I paid for it. Nothing. Just the same as mine." -HIGHWAYGAL
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2012
Masters's Avatar
Senior Member
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cuyahoga Falls, OH
Posts: 4,172
Rep Power: 30
Masters has a reputation beyond reputeMasters has a reputation beyond reputeMasters has a reputation beyond reputeMasters has a reputation beyond reputeMasters has a reputation beyond reputeMasters has a reputation beyond reputeMasters has a reputation beyond reputeMasters has a reputation beyond reputeMasters has a reputation beyond reputeMasters has a reputation beyond reputeMasters has a reputation beyond repute
Default

While this is an interesting take, it is a take by one player. None of us were in that locker room, so we really don't know how valid Evan's take is. I find it interesting he talks about getting chewed out by MH, but leaves out what MH chewed him out about. Maybe he was validly chewed out by MH and simply didn't like that he was chewed out while another player wasn't, who Evan's felt should have been equally chewed out. I'd disagree with Evan's on how talented those SEA teams were as well (of course if you believe him, than how can one say how poor MH was as GM/HC in SEA if he built such a talented roster). For Evans to say they were a failure when they were in the playoffs 2 of the 4 years he was there is also a little confusing to me.

How MH handles players he deals with on a day to day basis as a coach is likely to be different than when he is president of the organization. He isn't dealing with the players and their egos every day in the job he does today.

I wouldn't classify any of this as "this bad". Especially when it is a single player who played for MH in his 17 years as a HC. I don't find it as bad as what Lerner was describing the atmospher to be in the Browns offices before MH arrived (see the Lerner inteview in that thread). Every player is different, thus guys prefer one type of coaching approach to another (Mack earlier this year was talking about how he prefered Shurmer's approach over EMs).

There are plenty of examples of fomer players talking "bad", on record, about a former coach (especially after that player is retired). Tiki Barber had plenty of unflattering things to say, on record, about Tom Coughlin. Jamal Lewis ripped into Mangini publically while he was still a Brown, complaining about how EM was doing things. Jake Plummer has said negative things about Mike Shanahan (there is a laundry list of players who have done that with Shanahan). Bettis had unflattering things to say about Coher in his book, specifically on how he treated Kordell.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
2011, aints, awesome, board, browns, cleveland, cleveland browns, coaching, cornerback, defense, draft, eric mangini, espn, fat, football, forum, free agency, funny, god, holmgren, jamal lewis, jets, jim brown, lane kiffin, love, mangini, media, mike holmgren, mitchell, nba, nfl, offense, playoffs, position, president, prospects, quarterback, quotes, raiders, rape, record, safety, schedule, season, senior bowl, shurmur, stats, superbowl, trade, twitter, wallace

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:07 PM.


plush
no new posts
Inactive Reminders By Icora Web Design

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0