Personnel Comparison to the SF 49ers

[Solon16]

If those don't resonate...how about these....Where were the Colts before Peyton? without Peyton? Pats before Bledsoe and Brady? Bills after Jim Kelly? The Jets with Sanchez? The raiders since Gannon? The Titans without McNair? The Ravens before Flacco? The Steelers before Rothlisbeger? The niners after Young? The Browns after Kosar? The Dolphins after Marino? etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc......
want more...Dallas after Aikman, Giants after Simms, Denver after Mr Ed. on and on it goes!
I was a fervent Defense and running game advocate forEVER...I know and understand the argument and have battled over and over in the same stance I hear from all pro Line and wr talent standpoint. I have been on both sides, and with the rules in today's NFL...We absolutely need an undisputed franchise QB....and we have to completely focus on that position until we get it right. Until then...we will NEVER get to the Superbowl!

I have turned to the QB darkside.

[Riffer X]

Originally Posted by Masters

Alex Smith has had a handful of good games over his career. Any one really believe he is going to lead SF to SB really? I don't, and I don't think SF believes it either. It took 7 years for SF to get a head couch who relized what he had in Alex Smith, a game manager, and then to ask him to do just that. Alex Smith was never really talented enough to be draft #1 over all. It just happens a SF front office (people who lost their jobs) happened to feel he was. I am pretty sure if they had that one to do over, Smith would not have been their choice. With hindside knowldege, Alex Smith probably doesn't even go in the first round at all.

Look at all the theoretical talent on O in SF, and yet their O was nothing steller.

I don't know what Colt will fully develop into, but if Alex Smith is the standard we are looking for, I don't know what to say. I sure don't want to wait 7 years for CLE to be average at best at the QB position. If CLE has a shot at an RG3 w/o selling the farm, it would be a mistake for them not to and to tie their hopes that in 7 years McCoy is Alex Smith

Mike, I think you are completely missing Flugs' points based on your response. Of course Smith has sucked, and to be honest, he didn't impress me much this year either. I watched several games where he missed open guys, and he had a ton of coaching and talent (game planning) working in his favor. I posted a thread after the championship games discussing that both San Fran and Balt were hairs away from playing each other in the Super Bowl with Flaxico and Smith as the starting QB's.

I think Flugs has done a great job here showing that QB's need talent around them and an overall team, not just some super stud that carries the whole team on his back. Even an average guy like Alexis can take a team a couple of special teams gaffes away from playing in the SB ala Dildofer.

Flaccofseagulls has been panned in Balt and nationally now for two years running, his honeymoon is over. Flugs is pointing out how guys like these have been in the league much longer than Colt and haven't done anything to transform their team's into winners, the surrounding cast has.

I haven't commented a lot yet on the Griffen thing, although I have close family in Waco and do take an interest in the kid based on what he has done for the Baylor program. Again, we are back to the same argument of trading away our equity for a guy such as RGIII or stockpiling this team with the picks that Heck has acquired. RGIII is essentially going to cost at least two first rounders if not more, and those first rounders are vital to us right now. That could be the speed threat we need, the guy opposite JT, the guy opposite Sheard etc. We have some key components we are missing that we can fill THIS year, and we also have little invested in our QB who I think has plenty of promise if we start to build a team---ala San Francisco.

[Flugel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masters
Alex Smith has had a handful of good games over his career. Any one really believe he is going to lead SF to SB really? I don't, and I don't think SF believes it either. It took 7 years for SF to get a head couch who relized what he had in Alex Smith, a game manager, and then to ask him to do just that. Alex Smith was never really talented enough to be draft #1 over all. It just happens a SF front office (people who lost their jobs) happened to feel he was. I am pretty sure if they had that one to do over, Smith would not have been their choice. With hindside knowldege, Alex Smith probably doesn't even go in the first round at all.

Look at all the theoretical talent on O in SF, and yet their O was nothing steller.

I don't know what Colt will fully develop into, but if Alex Smith is the standard we are looking for, I don't know what to say. I sure don't want to wait 7 years for CLE to be average at best at the QB position. If CLE has a shot at an RG3 w/o selling the farm, it would be a mistake for them not to and to tie their hopes that in 7 years McCoy is Alex Smith

Totally agree. Isn't Alex Smith an ideal example of what can happen if you overrate the WRONG QB at the top of the draft and enable a BETTER QB like Aaron Rodgers to fall on somebody else's door step? Smith's late buzz and hype rivaled what's going on with RGIII right now. It got extensive and invasive enough that there wasn't another QB close enough to him. Hence Aaron Rodgers dropped to #24 because his ceiling was even more widely misunderstood than Alex Smith's ceiling.

Anyway, why does RGIII have to mean that Case Keenum or Brandon Weeden can't be a great alternative that would fall to us at a later draft slot without losing 1 single pick? I think we need to get back to understanding WHY I chose the path of this discussion. I appreciate Riffer pointing that out so I'm not debating with people that agree with me. It's about HOW to handle the current supply and demand of QBs that have been on our doorstep since the 2007 draft. I'm not seeing that we refused any Peyton Mannings on our doorstep on our way to the outcome of McCoy in late round 3 of 2010. Colt McCoy actually became the least of 3 evils between Sam Bradford at #1 overall, Jimmy Clausen in round 2 and McCoy in late round 3 if we compare their ratings with the salary cap hits.

I'm ALL for adding RGIII if we don't have to trade away too much significant potential help we'll need for other areas. I also understand Dan Snyder will be willing to part with a bunch of 1st round picks ahead. The SAME owner that already drafted Jason Campbell, Heath Shuler and Patrick Ramsey in round 1. He's about 50 cards short of a full deck so we better prepare ourselves for what's ahead in terms of how he will impact the asking price for RGIII at #2 overall. I DO really think RGIII would be a wonderful as long as acquiring him isn't at the expense of landing the tools he'll need to succeed and defensive help that can get him the ball occasionally in the same red zones Alex Smith often was able to begin many drives with in 2011.

I realize Jason J could sell tanning beds at the equator with his impressive takes about RGIII. I enjoyed the post you cut and pasted every bit as much. To be honest, Sam Bradford was generating a REALLY impressive pre-draft buzz among scouts where the only concerns were seemingly durability. Today, what's the biggest thing that was written about St Louis before they added Brandon Lloyd late in 2011? Sam Bradford needs tools to work with in order to get the passing game where they want it to be.

If we say forget the upcoming drafts and this one for 1 guy, is RGIII good enough to build a franchise without any tools around him? If so, he'd be like a talented carpenter without a ladder, hammer and nails so are we certain he could handle such a culture shock? Changing Baylor is a GREAT sign BUT that WR he threw to was pretty special. I can't pretend I know that much about him to say he's on that level. Therefore, I'm trying to see what we can do as alternatives like mentioning Case Keenum and Brandon Weeden in the prospects thread as guys that could fall to our door step while we address countless glaring needs here. Right now I don't see a Steve Smith talent here just patiently awaiting a Cam Newton to remind fans of his skill set. In saying that, was Cam Newton a big enough difference to where Carolina could handle NOT drafting in round 1 for the next couple years? Again, let's remember what Dan Snyder can do to the asking price.

For those of us certain McCoy doesn't have an ability make players around him better - can someone give me a sensible explanation of exactly what took place in 2010 when Cleveland beat a 14-2 NE team, beat a playoff bound New Orleans team and took the AFC Championship bound Jets to overtime where a Stuckey fumble at NY's 30 yard line became the difference. McCoy is 21 starts old so let's not pretend we know his ceiling any more than those San Diego fans who were certain they understood Drew Brees' ceiling. Get the kid some weapons and then we can talk about ceiling heights.

[YtownBacker]

Bottom line is this team has to have a QB to build a offense around. I really don't care who they settle on but they need to make a good decision and then move on.

If you evaluate RGIII and you think he is the guy and you are willing to spend a #4 pick on him because you think he can be your franchise QB then you go after him and trade up if you need to. If you think he's the guy Jason thinks he is then you can't sit at #4 and wait for him. You go after him. If you have questions and think well maybe he could be the guy and we will wait at#4 and see then you move on. I don't want to spend a top pick on a guy I don't completely believe in.

To me, it's not the cost, because QB is that important, but you got to believe he's the guy. If it isn't RGIII and you like Flynn better(and Gannon does) then you need to go after him as your Plan A. We have one regualar season game and a few practice games to go on watching Flynn, but Gannon says he has been to GB practices most of the summer and did their preseason games and has a great relationship with McCarthy. He says Flynn is the real thing. He's as passionate about Flynn as Jason is about RGIII.

Either way you have to make a choice or you will have to invest one more year in McCoy and see if he can be an effective game manager. You can go with him and draft a prospect mid rounds and see if you can strike gold that way. That's not the traditional way but it has worked, not ofter but it has worked.

Simple fact is you got to do something at QB and then move on with filling in pieces around whomever it is. But the decision needs to come soon because if you plan to go after RGIII and use picks to move up to get him then you need to be very active in FA. I don't have the benefit of scouting these guys or working them out or watching a ton of film on them so I can only offer a fans opinion based on what we have available to read.

That said, you got to put this to rest and move forward building this team. I don't know how much better McCoy could be if he had some good pieces added around him. I don't know if Flynn is the next Schaub or Kolb and I don't know if RGIII is for real or not. I also don't know if Tannehill is for real either. We got a bunch of guys making a lot of money and they need to make the right decision here but it has to be made this year.

I'm with solon.........................as much as I love defense and want a great OL, I'm on the QB bandwagon also.

I say, we can't settle for good and that's all McCoy can hope to be. We need to go big or go home. I'm hoping they fall in love with RGIII or Flynn....................Hell, I'd even settle for McCoy starting another year if they saw great potential in Tannehill and drafted him at #22. IMO, we need a better QB to build this team around.

Unlike some, I do think we have the experience and expertise in our front office to get this done.

[Riffer X]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

Bottom line is this team has to have a QB to build a offense around.

Agreed. Bottom line is every team in the NFL needs a good QB, that is kind of a given. The question is how good do you want your QB to be, your savior so to speak? As I just said, we just watched two very marginal QB's who should both be playing in the Super Bowl. The reason is because they have the talent all around to be in that position. My ultimate goal is to win the Super Bowl, but first I would like to build a good football team with the available resources we have. In the meantime, that great QB we are all wanting may be here already, for a third round cost.

It comes down to the front office, it is up to them to decipher what our best options are at QB. However, I don't feel that anyone here can conclude anything about McCoy yet. The assumption around here seems to be that we don't have a QB at all, and that is not true. We are not running out Luke McCown here, we have a kid who put up better numbers than Bradford last year in an absolutely abysmal offensive setting that we really don't need to discuss for the umpteenth time, although it certainly means that we need to get some pieces in here with the resources we have available.

Again, if RGIII is deemed to be too good to pass up, then do whatever is within reason to get him, but no way in hell would I piss away a first round pick on Tannyhill if you are indeed sticking with Colt another year. If you are going to go with Colt, than you use every ounce of your resources you have accrued to this point to make him better and the team better. That includes defensively, where you could essentially be giving up a Coples type, or offensively where you could be giving up Mike Adams or Wright type etc. Besides that, I have zero interest in Tanney, I'd rather get Case Keenum later.

It is black and white where we just saw two heavily panned QB's that both SHOULD be in the Super Bowl, and we don't know yet but McCoy could develop to be way better than either with some real talent around him. I guess I don't like the assumptions from some who have already made their minds up that Colt could never be the guy here, because there is way too much history in this league that says guys with his numbers so far on shit teams can definitely be good to great when given a real opportunity with some real talent.

To that, the Browns need to be aggressive in FA this year regardless where they lean at QB. Now, if they do love Flynn, he is going to cost big time. I have been over this, but we have accrued a nice little pot here by not spending on the cap and being frugal, plus we are paying our starting QB pennies. You start throwing big monies around for a guy like Flynn, you are potentially ruining your chances at other opportunities at making the team better--now, and in the future.

It is all Catch 22 scenarios, and I don't mean a Greg Little Catch 22 where you throw him a 100 balls and he catches 22, I mean it comes down to the guys we are paying big money to to determine what is best going forward.

[YtownBacker]

I agree Riff, it's all about how good you want your QB to be. Like I said I don't pretend to have the expertise to know if McCoy's ceiling is high enough to be a good game manager QB, like many out there now.

What I am saying is make your choice and let's move on. If they think highly enough of McCoy then let's get the pieces around him. If they think there is just too much upside not to take RGIII or even Flynn then get your guy.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

I agree Riff, it's all about how good you want your QB to be. Like I said I don't pretend to have the expertise to know if McCoy's ceiling is high enough to be a good game manager QB, like many out there now.

What I am saying is make your choice and let's move on. If they think highly enough of McCoy then let's get the pieces around him. If they think there is just too much upside not to take RGIII or even Flynn then get your guy.

Since you respect Gannon's opinion, here's what Gannon had to say about Colt McCoy who once walked in the same shoes:
Cleveland Browns' Colt McCoy has potential, says analyst/former player Rich Gannon Published: Friday, December 23, 2011, 8:38 PM Updated: Saturday, December 24, 2011, 2:20 AM By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer

BALTIMORE, Md. — Former Super Bowl quarterback and CBS analyst Rich Gannon, who will call his fourth Browns game Saturday in Baltimore, still thinks Browns quarterback Colt McCoy can be the guy. Problem is, he suspects McCoy might not get the chance to prove it.
"I know people are saying, 'Is this guy a player?' but there's a lot of things to like about him," said Gannon, who has studied most of McCoy's games this season. "I mean, there's something about him that makes me think he's got a chance. I like him."
Gannon should know. His 18-year career got off to a remarkably slow start, but he went on to make four straight Pro Bowls with the Raiders, earn NFL MVP honors and lead his team to a Super Bowl. He excelled in the West Coast offense under then-Raiders coach Jon Gruden, who learned the scheme from Browns President Mike Holmgren.
"People don't understand that you've got develop the quarterback position," Gannon said. "We're making a huge mistake in the NFL with these young guys. These coaches come in and say, 'He's not my guy, I want to get rid of him,' and then they bring another guy in. Then it takes a couple of years to develop that guy. Meanwhile, they fire that head coach, and the next guy comes in. It's a terrible cycle."
Gannon cited 49ers quarterback Alex Smith, who is flourishing under Jim Harbaugh after struggling his first six seasons. Smith has led the 49ers to an 11-3 mark this season and has a 91.1 passer rating.
"When you have a talented kid like Colt who can do some things, you put your arm around him like [coach] Jim Harbaugh did with Alex Smith and show him some love," Gannon said. "You tell him you believe in him and that you trust him, and that you're going to win this thing together. Now you're seeing a different guy in Alex Smith. He has five interceptions this year. He's not throwing 40 touchdowns [Smith has thrown for 16], but he's playing winning football."
Gannon can see the same thing happening with McCoy -- either here or elsewhere. McCoy will sit out Saturday's game with the concussion he suffered in Pittsburgh on Dec. 8, and might be done for the season.
"I think Colt McCoy can be that guy," Gannon said. "He might not be the Aaron Rodgers or the Tom Brady that throws 38 or 39 touchdown passes every year, but he's not in that system and he's not asked to do those things just yet. He might be a guy that can throw 25 touchdowns and seven or eight interceptions, and play winning football and help win the division championship -- but I don't know if he's going to get that opportunity."
Gannon attributes McCoy's 4-9 record this season in large part to the lack of a running game and playmaking receivers.

"In my opinion, they missed the boat in the off-season in terms of not bringing in more help at wide receiver," he said. "Brian Robiskie and Mohamed Massaquoi were two young guys, and Massaquoi's been hurt. They drafted Greg Little, but they knew that was going to take a little bit of time.
"I thought maybe they could've signed a guy like James Jones [496 yards, five TDs for the Packers this season], the kid from Green Bay who was on the market. He's a good player, he knows their system inside and out and he has a good work ethic. I just don't know that they got better enough in that area to help Colt."
And then, he said, the whole Peyton Hillis saga was hard to overcome.
"For most of the season, Colt didn't have Peyton Hillis or Montario Hardesty," Gannon said. "They weren't going to be any good on offense if they couldn't run the football. You saw last week what an impact a healthy Hillis can have. To sit here and say that the Browns are 4-10 because of the inconsistent play of the quarterback, I don't think that's fair."
Gannon likened McCoy's situation to that of 2010 No. 1 pick Sam Bradford of the Rams. Bradford went 1-9 this season in St. Louis in the new offensive system under Josh McDaniels. Overall, he's 8-18 with a 74.2 rating. McCoy is 6-15 with a 74.5 rating after switching from the Patriots' style last year to the West Coast this year.
"It's an almost identical situation," Gannon said. "Pat Shurmur coached Sam Bradford, and now McDaniels has him, and the kid's taken a major step back with the new system in year two. Colt was brought up in Brian Daboll's offense. I mean, it's traumatic."
McCoy also had not much of an off-season to learn the new scheme.
"They said: 'Here's the playbook, take a look at it. When you come back, here's what we're going to do,' " Gannon said. "That's no way to learn a system."
Gannon said it's also significant that this is Shurmur's first year as a head coach.
"He's only been calling plays for three years to begin with, and it's a lot different calling plays as the head coach as opposed to the coordinator," Gannon said. "As the head coach, he's dealing with substitutions, injuries, the kicking game and all of that. So when you look at all of that and you start evaluating Colt McCoy, I think it gets a little tricky."
Gannon said many are raving about Bengals rookie quarterback Andy Dalton this season, but that he has a much better supporting cast.
"Is Andy Dalton still Andy Dalton without A.J. Green this season?" Gannon said. "A.J. Green already got 1,000 yards receiving and seven touchdowns, and the guy goes up and makes all of these plays when he's covered. Who's that guy for the Browns? They don't have that guy yet. Then he's got Ced Benson and a good veteran group up front and [tight end Jermaine Gresham]. They also have a [top-six] defense. They're much more talented across the board."
Gannon said he can understand why some will prefer quarterback Seneca Wallace after these few starts.
"When your starter is struggling, people always love the backup," he said. "Welcome to my world. I've been the guy that's come in as the backup and treated like the savior and the guy that's watched the backup come in and get treated like that. Happens all the time."
Gannon said McCoy has all the intangibles and can make all the throws.
"He's a tough kid and [has] some of the same qualities as a Tim Tebow," Gannon said. "He's tough, he's got great leadership ability, work ethic, he sets a good example and he makes everyone around him better. Those are things you like about him."
He said the fact McCoy was a third-round pick and not a first-round pick "makes it a little easier to push him aside. I don't know how it's all going to shake out."
He cited players such as Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger and Peyton Manning who have had consistency throughout their careers. He pointed to other players such as Drew Brees who needed a fresh start to get his career on track. Brees went 2-9 with the Chargers in 2003 with 11 TDs and 15 INTs before becoming a Super Bowl MVP with the Saints.
"If you're not in the right situation, it can hurt your career," Gannon said. "But Mike Holmgren and Pat Shurmur understand the need to develop young quarterbacks. Hopefully they'll do that with Colt. Whether it's in Cleveland or somewhere else, I can see him going on to have a terrific career."
************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ****

He's saying so many things I've said; but he's looking at it through the eyes of an NFL QB that wasn't drafted in round 1. The road to an MVP Passer from Gannon didn't come immediately. That's why he UNDERSTANDS the concept of the equity/investment that Riff introduced to blind eyes and deaf ears. Holmgren understood what he drafted, which led to him saying McCoy wouldn't see the field as a rookie. What he didn't see coming was how early McCoy could bring our competitive level up to beating playoff teams like the NE Patriots, New Orleans Saints and taking the AFC Championship bound Jets into OT (a Stuckey fumble at the Jets 30 ruined an opportunity McCoy was creating). I'm often told there's never been a shred of evidence McCoy could make those around him play at a higher level. Just out of curiosity how much better did a 12 million $ Delhomme or a 6 million $ Seneca Wallace have us competing against much lesser teams than that 3 week succession I spoke of.

[YtownBacker]

I do respect Gannon's opinion and that article says a lot to me. I wish I was in a position to have watched McCoy in practice and know the teams playbook. Was a lot of the problem the WRs and OL or was too much of it McCoy. Honestly, I don't think anyone here has the ability to say they know the answer.

I believe we have the people in the organization to make the best decision. Whoever ends up being the QB needs some impact players on the offensive side of the ball. We need WR, OL and we need to solidify the RB situation. Only then will we know if McCoy can progress or not.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

I do respect Gannon's opinion and that article says a lot to me. I wish I was in a position to have watched McCoy in practice and know the teams playbook. Was a lot of the problem the WRs and OL or was too much of it McCoy. Honestly, I don't think anyone here has the ability to say they know the answer.

I believe we have the people in the organization to make the best decision. Whoever ends up being the QB needs some impact players on the offensive side of the ball. We need WR, OL and we need to solidify the RB situation. Only then will we know if McCoy can progress or not.

What I've said over and over and over is MAYBE we ought to trust the eyes and commentaries of all the former NFL QBs that studied our team on film to conclude McCoy needs weapons and help he clearly hasn't been given in Cleveland.

I've never heard 1 former coach or QB or WR like Tasker say Browns need to get a NEW QB. In saying that, EVERY one of them said Cleveland needs to add some weapons for whoever they want playing QB here if they want to finally see 1 succeed. Remember the playoff game when the Packers dropped too many passes on Aaron Rodgers? It was the first time you saw him lose confidence and get visibly frustrated. BTW, they lost. The more they got behind - the more he got sacked and the more he began to misfire as they were rendered 1 dimensional while the Giants went into pin their ears back mode. Imagine that every week on a QB with his 2nd playbook, which deprograms the first playbook. Gannon GETS this impact better than casual fans.

I LIKED seeing what Matt Flynn could do with much better WRs than we have. Would Greg Little have made Green Bay's team? MoMass? Robiskie? Let's try and remember we led the NFL in dropped passes when we clearly weren't out running secondaries or making defenses remove a Safety from the crowded boxes. Perimeter SPEED we don't have removes them.

What got completely LOST in this entire conversation is I WANT us to draft RGIII if he's available and affordable. Having said that, someone else posted Daniel Snyder has stated he will try to trade for RGIII. That now changes the price tag to much more than both our first round picks in 2012. Why does me considering alternatives to a bidding war with Daniel Snyder have to mean I don't want our QB position to be successful here? You posed an alternative like Matt Flynn which I would welcome. I've already seen what he can do with talented receivers and continuity even if all that has been missing here.

Ytown, we ALL want to see an efficient passing game competing in a passing era. Our biggest hurdle is drafting at #4 overall if this draft really has 2 Peyton Mannings in it. I've been keenly aware of supply and demand, which is why I'm in many posts discussing other rookie QBs that could land on our doorstep as potential steals later. If we give away our next 2 drafts for RGIII - do you want to be reading the next 2 years he just needs WRs?

[Sez.EJ]

Originally Posted by Solon16

Then lets fucking get 1!...That's IT! No more need to discuss this same thread for last 9 years! The sooner the better! done with the same argument...

Tom you know I am Defense and OLine guy...NO MORE!

I am about a franchise QB...It took me a fking long time to get it...to get here...fought thru countless battles defending protection, and talent at skilled positions......but It is the QB ! Plain and simple! It always has been since rules changes. i.e. circa tuck rule!

Look...enuff with the fking O-Line...we have 2 probowlers...wtf do you want! Enough with the shit...! Wr ? we are an FA away.... We have great opportunity to get a guy like Broyles Toon Wright, floyd, jeffrey, edwards,whatchaku. la maichael james, TR, Wilson from VT...WE NEED A QB!!! Colt aint it!

Sez u r like a hampster on the wheel...every year....keep runnin buddy!

It's easy to say..let's get a franchise QB..they don't grow on trees.. There appears to be JUST ONE.. Luck... in the draft...We will not be able to touch him.. Indi is not trading that pick. Manning is an expensive injury risk..which pretty much leaves Flynn as the best hope IMO. I don't know what Colt will be..but I'm not as convinced as you that he sucks.. .. but the final verdict is not in IMO. Too many holes on the roster... As I said int the earlier post..no one will argue we don't need a franchise QB.. but I just don't see them out there for our taking. So if you cannot get one.. you build the team in the meantime. RG3 is just another project IMO.. I would not touch him. he looks like just another wasted pick. I am not impressed with him.. Last time I checked.. 2 probowlers were not enough to keep our QB from getting killed cuz the other 3 guys on the OL sucked. I am not saying you need 5 pro bowlers.. but 2 competent OL players of 5 is not getting it done for us.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

It's easy to say..let's get a franchise QB..they don't grow on trees.. There appears to be JUST ONE.. Luck... in the draft...We will not be able to touch him.. Indi is not trading that pick. Manning is an expensive injury risk..which pretty much leaves Flynn as the best hope IMO. I don't know what Colt will be..but I'm not as convinced as you that he sucks.. .. but the final verdict is not in IMO. Too many holes on the roster... As I said int the earlier post..no one will argue we don't need a franchise QB.. but I just don't see them out there for our taking. So if you cannot get one.. you build the team in the meantime. RG3 is just another project IMO.. I would not touch him. he looks like just another wasted pick. I am not impressed with him.. Last time I checked.. 2 probowlers were not enough to keep our QB from getting killed cuz the other 3 guys on the OL sucked. I am not saying you need 5 pro bowlers.. but 2 competent OL players of 5 is not getting it done for us.

Very well said Sez! As much as I like RGIII - I hope we're a little more sane than Daniel Snyder.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

I do respect Gannon's opinion and that article says a lot to me. I wish I was in a position to have watched McCoy in practice and know the teams playbook. Was a lot of the problem the WRs and OL or was too much of it McCoy. Honestly, I don't think anyone here has the ability to say they know the answer.

So this is specifically where Rich Gannon's knowledge and understanding of the NFL QB position gets inconvenient. You basically liked him all the way up until he told you what he saw on film. In 1 breath, you're saying you wished you saw all the practices only to tell us where the problem is. In the next breath, you informed you don't think anyone here has the ability to say they know the answer.

Here's what I can remind you, they pay former QBs, WRs and Coaches to cover the games. If I'm paying good money for the NFL ticket, I choose to listen what the experts are telling me about what they found on film all week. Which commentator told us we are wonderful at WR? Which one said they don't think McCoy has it? Are you one of those guys that says what does Dan Fouts know about an NFL passing game when he questions why there wasn't 1 vertical route route run all day prior to the 4th quarter in SF? Now I just gave you what Gannon said about the PROCESS of developing a young QB. You didn't REALLY read it.

Believe it or not, I have the ability to know we didn't possess 1 WR that could outrun secondaries enough to pry at least 1 safety out of the box all year. And do you know how I know that? Because I watched 16 straight weeks. Do you really see Victor Cruz and Hakim Nicks just waiting for Eli to arrive here?