If not Luck or RG#3 then who are the best players at #4

[jason j]

Originally Posted by Bronx Cheer

The Giants look pretty smart now trading a #4 overall to move up to #1, no? On a quick tangent, Eli has to be infuriating to Giants' fans. The guy looks terrible one second, than is a world beater the next. When he's on, he's magic, and I guess that is all that matters.

In any event, the next QB I'd consider after Luck and Griffin would be Foles. In terms of ranking the college QBs in their ability to fit the ball into tight spaces, I'd place him just behind Luck and the-USC-kid-whose-name-I-will-not-speak-because-he-should-have-declared. I don't think he could step in and start, but he's the type who can develop into a successful starter in a year or two.

Regarding the original question, I'd rank Blackmon and Richardson as the next two (Kalil will be gone by #3).

When you look at pure skill... Foles is really the next best. He's easily the best pure passer of the group. Yes, OK St. and A&M won more games. But Foles is probably the next best prospect at the next level.

-jj

[ramrod]

At this point (Feb. 6th) if we don't get RG3 I think its a bust. In this scenario if he is gone I think you trade down and pick up some extra picks. I think there is no way Heckert takes Blackmon. A.J Green/Julio Jones > Blackmon. He didnt take Julio at 6 last year, no way he takes Blackmon at 4 this year.

On that note, when does free agency start?

[Riffer X]

Originally Posted by jason j

When you look at pure skill... Foles is really the next best. He's easily the best pure passer of the group. Yes, OK St. and A&M won more games. But Foles is probably the next best prospect at the next level.

-jj

Do you think that Foles is a better prospect down the line than McCoy? Another words, how do you feel he would have fared dealing with Harrison, Lewis/Suggs and companies while throwing to Greg Little/MoMoreMass?

In the immortal words of Henny Youngman, "Take my Momass, please."

[Riffer X]

Originally Posted by ramrod

At this point (Feb. 6th) if we don't get RG3 I think its a bust. In this scenario if he is gone I think you trade down and pick up some extra picks. I think there is no way Heckert takes Blackmon. A.J Green/Julio Jones > Blackmon. He didnt take Julio at 6 last year, no way he takes Blackmon at 4 this year.

On that note, when does free agency start?

2012 NFL Free Agency Period Starts: Tuesday, March 13, 2012. 2012 NFL Draft: April 26, 27, 28, 2012

[damajuki]

If we don't go up to get RG3, or if we play chicken and try to let him fall to us, we really should move DOWN again and pick up picks and bodies. There's no one at #4 that jumps out at me. I think there are multiple WRs will have careers equal to or greater than Blackmon to be had later in the first (Wright, Floyd, etc.). We also need way too much to target a non-elite talent at 4. Let someone else, like the Raiders or Skins, pay us and come up there to take their risks.

Because if we don't go up for RG3, that means we're going to simply continue to stock the roster with talent. Nothing wrong with that strategy but it means another brutal year on offense with either Colt or whomever they bring in to compete with Colt.

So if we're not going for the franchise-defining move for RG3, we have to just keep filling the roster, slowly but surely.

[Bronx Cheer]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Do you think that Foles is a better prospect down the line than McCoy? Another words, how do you feel he would have fared dealing with Harrison, Lewis/Suggs and companies while throwing to Greg Little/MoMoreMass?

In short : 1) unequivocally yes, and 2) better than McCoy long term (2013 and beyond), and possibly even in 2012 given that opposing Ds wouldn't be able to stack 9 in the box and take away simultaneously the entire running game and passing game by stopping TE drag routes.

[jason j]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Do you think that Foles is a better prospect down the line than McCoy? Another words, how do you feel he would have fared dealing with Harrison, Lewis/Suggs and companies while throwing to Greg Little/MoMoreMass?

In the immortal words of Henny Youngman, "Take my Momass, please."

Not so much that it'd matter. I mean... I don't think you're any further ahead if you swap one for the other. They each have strengths... just a different set.

Likewise, I wouldn't have swapped out McCoy for any of last season's crop of rookies. There's just not enough separation.

-jj

[Bronx Cheer]

As you can see, I am in the "Defenses figured out McCoy club." He could be a good backup, but I just think he is too physically limited to be a successful long term starter. I'd much rather have a league-average stopgap starting (plus a developmental type on the bench whose upside is starting calibre) than waste another season polishing up a career backup. Foles, Tannehill, and Griffin all have significantly higher ceilings than McCoy, so I'd come to peace with any of them being tabbed as our 2013 guy. I just happen to like the valuerice ratio for Foles (early 3rd?) a lot better than those for Tannehill (mid first) and Griffin (trade up to #2 overall).

My first choice would be to mortgage the farm for Luck, but that doesn't even seem to be possible in my wildest dreams.

[jason j]

Yeah, Luck's not happening in Cleveland. Griffin is a real possibility. Depending on where Foles ends up, he could be a value. The trouble with Nick is he has a lot more to learn about playing quarterback. He's not demonstrated that he's a good decision maker.

Now some of that could be on the coaching staff. Early reports were Foles was limited in his decision-making, and frankly not very bright. The Senior Bowl staff found him to be a reasonably quick study. So there you go. He may find a ceiling in just how much data he can process. But there's a lot to like.

He's got an arm commensurate with his frame. He's heavy-footed, and a strong kid. But man oh man that delivery needs to be tightened up. He's got a pretty sizable wind up on most throws... and from time to time does this weird hip dip to get into his motion. No kidding, the kid's 6'5" and will uncork throws from about a 5'8" arm slot. But, it's not consistent... or "And," it's not consistent. It just really hard to tell what is "uncoachable" and what's just not been coached.

He's one of those guys that when he's tight with his mechanics, he looks good. You watch him make a half dozen throws and your comments column looks something like:

Wow
Nice velocity
On target
What the hell was that?
Nice touch
WTFWHTT (shorthand for "Where the F*** was he throwing that?")

He's a coach's dream or nightmare. He's got a lot to work with... but it's going to be a lot of work. I think he's ideal in a situation with an older (say early 30's) vet where he can sit for a few years. New Orleans, Dallas, Giants, Houston. Any one of them could be a good spot for Foles to sit.

I'd be afraid if he comes to Cleveland, that he may be pressed into duty. And I just don't think he's equipped for it.

-jj

[Bronx Cheer]

Originally Posted by jason j

I'd be afraid if he comes to Cleveland, that he may be pressed into duty. And I just don't think he's equipped for it.

I definitely understand that, and agree. The only way I see him as an attractive option is if we can get a vet guy in here capable of holding down the fort for a few seasons.

[Sez.EJ]

This guy listed as a riser in the draft:

.

Rueben Randle

WR

LSU

Despite playing on a run-heavy offense, Randle managed to finish third in the SEC in receiving with 53 catches for 917 yards (17.3-yard average) and eight touchdowns. Randle proved to be effective at all levels of the field and was one of the better deep threats in the nation in 2011, averaging 17.3 yard per reception. In his first two seasons, Randle was considered a better athlete than football player with only one 100-yard performance and a combined five touchdowns. But he worked hard in the offseason to elevate his game as a junior and now is one of the top receivers in this draft class. Most consider Oklahoma State's Justin Blackmon to be the top receiver available followed by Baylor's Kendall Wright and Notre Dame's Michael Floyd. However, it's definitely possible that Randle could help his draft stock at the Combine and in pre-draft workouts to leap frog into the top-three receivers and top-20 consideration for several teams. And even if he doesn't overtake the top three receivers, Randle will be an attractive option in the late first round for a team needing a big, fast receiver, such as the Texans, Patriots or 49ers.

This guy listed as a possible faller in the draft

Alshon Jeffery

WR

South Carolina

One of the more polarizing prospects in this draft class, Jeffery had a breakout sophomore season in 2010, but failed to produce similar numbers in 2011, barely matching his totals as a freshman. He didn't show the same dominance this past season with only one 100-yard receiving game, averaging 3.7 catches and 58.6 yards per game. Much of the blame can be placed on South Carolina's sometimes inept passing game, which ranked only 181 yards per game. But Jeffery deserves some of the responsibility, looking out-of-shape which hindered his speed and ability to create separation. Several reports have surfaced that his playing weight is in the 250-pound area with 40-yard dash times that some offensive linemen wound find disappointing. Several of these questions will be answered next week when he weighs in at the Combine and works out, but early indications are not positive. Scouts aren't so much interested in the numbers as they are seeing what kind of physical shape he is in to answer questions about work ethic. Jeffery needs to distance himself from prevalent comparisons to Mike Williams, who was drafted 10th overall by the Lions in 2005, but struggled to stay in shape or make much of an impact in Detroit.

I am notREAL familiar with Randall.. but have heard of him..but SEC guys can usually play and play well. Possiblity with that 2nd 1st rounder or 2nd round pick.

[YtownBacker]

A WR to look at after the first round beside Randall who would be a great fit at #37 if we get shut out on day one. Joe Adams, fast, quick and runs good routes. Had a good senior bowl and should rise up boards after the combine. Some are saying he could outrun Wright at the combine.