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George Allen said....

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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2010
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The more things change the more they stay the same. I seem to remember the last two Super Bowls including defenses stepping up and taking it to the house. If you can't play defense you can't win. I think Allen is right. A great defense always beats a great offense. Time haven't changed that much. That will always be true.
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Old 05-13-2010
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The last 2 Super Bowls averaged 49 points and saw seven total passing TD's.

Allen (if dead) rolled over in his grave.
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Originally Posted by mz. View Post
The last 2 Super Bowls averaged 49 points and saw seven total passing TD's.

Allen (if dead) rolled over in his grave.
And defense shut down the Colts last year, and the Cardinals couldn't stop the Steelers on the last drive FTW.
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Old 05-13-2010
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Whoa. I feel like I'm reading posts from some kind of alternative universe where the last two years didn't happen or something.

It's a passing league and offense has obviously pulled way ahead of defense. We set records for number of 4,000 yard passers, number of passers with 25 TDs, and overall QBR. All the teams with top 10 passers had winning records, 8 in the playoffs.

It is what it is. You don't have to like it, but no... the best defenses weren't the ones in the Super Bowl. They were watching. The Jets got torched by Manning and the Packers got torched by Warner.
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Old 05-13-2010
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Originally Posted by Shep View Post
Whoa. I feel like I'm reading posts from some kind of alternative universe where the last two years didn't happen or something.

It's a passing league and offense has obviously pulled way ahead of defense. We set records for number of 4,000 yard passers, number of passers with 25 TDs, and overall QBR. All the teams with top 10 passers had winning records, 8 in the playoffs.

It is what it is. You don't have to like it, but no... the best defenses weren't the ones in the Super Bowl. They were watching. The Jets got torched by Manning and the Packers got torched by Warner.
It's a team game. You don't win being one dimensional. The pass may have surpassed the run game but you don't win if you can't play defense and solid special teams. I seem to remember interceptions sealing both the super bowl and conference championship games.

Please don't tell me you think the playoffs and super bowl were decided by passing and defense didn't play a major part in them.

Again, being one dimensional doesn't even get you to the big game. Both teams played great defense to et there. It wasn't just about passing.
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Old 05-13-2010
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Originally Posted by mz. View Post
My point here would not be that good defense is or will ever be unfashionable, but moreso that its success is predicated upon stopping the passing game. As shep has stated, the RULES have dictated this.

Just look at the Jets. PERFECT example of a team that is ahead of the curve on D. Stacking up passrushers and CB (I mean Revis, Cromartie and Kyle Wilson...wow) is how you best try to stop a passing game in a league that changed its rules to make passing easier.
Last year at this time I was reading what a sensational idea it was to sign FA Lito Sheppard to Pro Bowl $ in NY. That perfect plan ended within 365 days.

Mz, I appreciate the reminder of how Mangini really set that Jets roster up nice with a strong core group of young players like Nick Mangold, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, D. Revis, David Harris and Dustin Keller. He also improved the running game on offense there by adding the right people and attitudes. Ferguson, Woody, Faneca, Moore, Mangold & Thomas Jones.

You couldn't find a closer model of building the team up than the one he's using or dare I say RE-using. Alex Mack is the same idea as Nick Mangold in round 1. What's nice is we already had a better version of D'Brick on board at LT so Mangini didn't have to waste time there. They had 2 first round olinemen at Center and LT and so do we. The NY right side is a little better but we're a work in progress.

Hardesty looks to be the SAME style of deceptive power runner and slasher as Thomas Jones was to the Jets offense. Jones would share carries/reps with Leon Washington while Hardesty will share reps/carries with Jerome Harrison. The Jets added another RB Shonn Greene who was ready for upside as soon as Jones' legs died. We had a running game ready to improve when Jamal's legs died too. The RB competition setting up for 2010 looks like one of the most exciting groups we've had in a long time. Hardesty, Harrison, Davis, Jennings will battle for carries while Hillis and Vickers compete for FB duty.

NY wasn't the only team giving alot of attention to the secondary. We added Sheldon Brown, Joe Haden, Larry Asante and TJ Moore which really addressed a depth and talent issue. This is a pretty deep group of corners: Sheldon Brown, Eric Wright Joe Haden, Coye Frances, Brandon McDonald, Mike Adams. At Saftey we're still not as deep as comfortable. I see TJ Moore, Larry Asante, Abram Elam, Mike Adams, Nick Sorensen, Mike Furrey fighting for 2 spots. Depending on how quickly Haden emerges or if any of the Safeties get injured - we could be looking at Sheldon Brown playing one of the Safety spots before too long. That might not be bad at all. Mike Adams is the Paul Farren of our secondary for those of you old enough to remember how many different positions that guy could play along the oline.

Even though there are mixed reviews in here about the LBer position - it's WAY better than it was heading into the 2009 draft a year ago. Roth was such a noticeable upgrade as was Bowens when he moved inside. Now we've added Gocong and Fujita; BUT Marcus Benard came out of nowhere down the stretch. For all the disappointment people had with Veikune - Benard became a pretty uplifting story as an undrafted rookie. Maiava ran a little hot and cold but that's the life of a rookie. Then we have Trusnik who will never be confused with Clay Matthews; but compared to Leon Williams he was Harvard between the ears on the field. We should be able to start 4 good guys from this list of candidates: D'Qwell Jackson, Scott Fujita, Marcus Benard, Matt Roth, J. Trusnik, Chris Gocong, Kaluka Maiava, David Bowens, David Veikune, and Blake Costanzo.

Seems like Mangini strived to better all the same parts of his team in Cleveland that he bettered in NY.
- Tom F.

Last edited by Flugel; 05-14-2010 at 12:13 AM.
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shep View Post
Whoa. I feel like I'm reading posts from some kind of alternative universe where the last two years didn't happen or something.

It's a passing league and offense has obviously pulled way ahead of defense. We set records for number of 4,000 yard passers, number of passers with 25 TDs, and overall QBR. All the teams with top 10 passers had winning records, 8 in the playoffs.

It is what it is. You don't have to like it, but no... the best defenses weren't the ones in the Super Bowl. They were watching. The Jets got torched by Manning and the Packers got torched by Warner.
I wish there was a button that did not allow you to post hyperbole to make your point, or a strawman argument to prop up your belief. We KNOW it is a passing league, we know it favors QB's. Move on Shep, we're not stupid so please STOP making the same points. We get it, okay? Ok.

That offense has pulled away from defense during the regular season is NOT in dispute, and I wish you'd stop trying to be cute about it like we don't understand that. We've ALL made the point and it has been agreed upon.

We've come to a crossroads regarding great D vs great O. That is where the dispute/debate lies. Please, with sugar on top, stop treating the rest of this board like idiots who know nothing about passing or QB's.

What is out there for debate is whether great D trumps great O. I think a great D trumps a great O.

I will supply more info when I am sober, but I wish you'd join the conversation instead of derailing it all the time. When it comes to QB's and passing the ball, I think we here a BH understand the importance of the trend.

Are you afraid to move on or are you just stuck in nuetral defending a belief from 1999?
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2010
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is it a passing league now or do the defenses just suck... DA did make the pro bowl a couple years ago.. maybe the passing is NOT all that great..the DB's just all suck? that's why the teams that can put up a few points on offense AND HAVE good DB's win more.
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