Haden

[Alo]

The Haden pick should be judged based on how good he becomes, not how much he plays as a rookie. If Sheldon Brown can play corner at a very high level for another year or so, that's a very good thing, but the move to safety appears to be inevitable.

If Haden plays 60% of snaps instead of 100%, that's not something to get irate about. And anyone who remembers Eric Wright's struggles as a rookie will understand that rookie year performance isn't the final arbiter of a player's talent level and worth.

In hindsight, it probably would have been better if Wright had started out as a nickel corner instead of getting absolutely destroyed by Hines Ward in his first career game.

[Shep]

C'mon... a team with our needs and a shiny new 7th pick overall... and we can't find a starter???

I keep circling it, looking from different angles... and it still keeps looking like a shitty pick.

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Shep

C'mon... a team with our needs and a shiny new 7th pick overall... and we can't find a starter???

I keep circling it, looking from different angles... and it still keeps looking like a shitty pick.

It will always look like a shitty pick to you because it wans't one of your boys. You got to be fuckin kiddin dissing a pick before camp even starts. Mangini doesn't even know who is going to start but you got it all set that Haden will be a nickle.

Give me a fuckin break.........................You got to have something better to rag on about then evaluating draft picks before camp even gets under way. Plus, you got to distort the report to try to make him look bad.

Come on, man.

[Seesaw]

C'mon... a team with our needs and a shiny new 7th pick overall... and we can't find a starter???

I keep circling it, looking from different angles... and it still keeps looking like a shitty pick.

Smarter people than me have brought up that the other teams in our division have 3rd recievers and tight ends that need to be covered, so I'm going on a different angle.

Most teams that draft a quarterback let them sit for a year to learn the game. Most wide recievers don't really get it until their second or third year. We all saw how big an impact the 'most nfl ready reciever' had last year. In Haden's case, he gets to play about 60-70% of the snaps THIS year (thus filling a need) while getting up to speed.

What about that screams shitty pick to you?

[Vegasdogg]

Why does he have to start? I mean WTF it's not like Brown and Wright suck. Shit man if we drafted a LB that high and he isn't starting, or an OL, I'd be pissed. We added a skill player that was needed on the defense.

People who love flashy and shiny offense sometimes are the ones that end up thinking defensive players are a dime a dozen.

You don't like that pick because it wasn't a QB or WR or RB you liked. That often ends up clouding your judgement on the pick.

I still can't fucking believe this is coming up in May. I mean no camp or preseason games and your bitching already about him not starting?

IT'S

EARLY

[Vegasdogg]

Double tap

[Shep]

It's coming up because I hated the pick already... and now I read in two places that he's not even likely to START. Revis started and played great.

My feeling is that #7 is too high for a corner UNLESS he's epic, a once-every-five-years guy.

Well, if he can't even start for the Browns, I don't think he's all that. So I don't get it.

[damajuki]

Originally Posted by Shep

I heartily disagree. Well, not really... I just think the point was translated clearly: It looks likely that Brown and Wright will start.

BTW, Revis started every game his rookie year and had 87 tackles and 3 INTs. We should know really quickly if we got 14th pick value out of our 7th pick... or lower.

Shep, you are adept at picking one thing to drive into the ground any given week. I guess it's Haden's turn this week.

I get that you don't like corners, especially at 7, but I don't know what you're not understanding about the CLEARLY ARTICULATED NEED for 3 top CB's in Mangini/Ryan's system because of how often they use a 3rd CB and how they like to use them.

You are trying to use "he's not even starting!" as a criticism of the pick when, as Alo just pointed out, it might not only be the best thing for him not to start as rookie, it might just make the whole defense BETTER with him at #3 CB because it will, theoretically, help shut down the safety valves for the opposing QBs.

Bottom line: If we win more than 4 games this year and beat Pittsburgh at least once, Haden is worth the pick. Period.

[Shep]

"He's not even starting" is tough to shoot down for a corner picked at #7, Dama. It just is, no matter how hard we want it to go away.

If you draft a corner at 7, you're saying he's fucking amazing. Revis-esque, if not better. It's a really high slot for the position, which is fine... if he's just crazy-ass epic.

And shit, your #7 pick really should start no matter how hard we try to crochet bullshit into sweaters here. We all damn well know that.

If we had corners good enough to keep Haden on the bench, then don't draft Haden. Draft a corner in round 2 or 3. It's just sensible.

Originally Posted by damajuki

Shep, you are adept at picking one thing to drive into the ground any given week. I guess it's Haden's turn this week.

I get that you don't like corners, especially at 7, but I don't know what you're not understanding about the CLEARLY ARTICULATED NEED for 3 top CB's in Mangini/Ryan's system because of how often they use a 3rd CB and how they like to use them.

You are trying to use "he's not even starting!" as a criticism of the pick when, as Alo just pointed out, it might not only be the best thing for him not to start as rookie, it might just make the whole defense BETTER with him at #3 CB because it will, theoretically, help shut down the safety valves for the opposing QBs.

Bottom line: If we win more than 4 games this year and beat Pittsburgh at least once, Haden is worth the pick. Period.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Shep

"He's not even starting" is tough to shoot down for a corner picked at #7,

Nobody said he wasn't starting, but if he isn't that is not a bad thing. But as I said you DON'T know he isn't starting so this is all really premature to say he isn't. I would actually like to see him eased into the stating role.

Look, if you think a rookie CB is going to come to camp handed the starting postion, you know less about the NFL than you give yourself credit for. You don't just place him as a starter and make Brown/Wright work for it. No, that is NOT how it's done, and I don't care if you're Sam Bradford - is he starting? He is the #1 pick why is he not starting today???

Because you have to earn it, that's why. You've really been bored lately I can tell. You started this thread because TV sucks, right?

Relax, you don't have any idea if he will start. Picking a CB #7 is against you're beliefs, but not the NFL.

I can't believe this is a topic of discussion in May, after one week of shells and helmets. Unbelievable.

[plumcrazy73]

Originally Posted by mz.

Off topic, I know, but..........Chris Spielman??

Yea Chris Spielman, from my hometown, I know him a little personally, and I respect the hell out of him, he walked away from the game to be with his wife who has Cancer even though he loved football so much he put his family first.

He was a great player, I was happy as hell when Cleveland drafted him in the expansion draft unfortunately he got hurt.

He always played the game with his heart, always was told your too slow, always proved the critics wrong.

[damajuki]

Shep, I hear you but ultimately Vegas is right on this: it's way too early to be calling this guy anything but a rookie.

That said, your point on #7 picks needing to be starters is absolutely correct. He needs to be a starter, eventually.

I just don't agree he needs to be epic. LOTS and LOTS of top 10 guys fail, not just CBs.