Who wins the Super Bowl, QB-wise?

[mz.]

Originally Posted by Vegasdogg

Can we fucking move on?

The argument comes up EVERY SINGLE DAY in here, so I guess we cannot move on. People evidently enjoy discussing it.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by mz.

People evidently enjoy discussing it

WHO????

It is not a mystery anymore. QB's have won the Super Bowl. That's all this says. Some drafted in Rnd 1, some on Rnd 2, some in 6-7-10-17, ect...

And some not drafted at all.

And some, drafted in Rnd 1 - never made the playoffs. And some are out of football.

THERE IS MORE THAN JUST THE QB !!!!!!!!

MZ, quit being a shill for your buddy.

[DawgFan]

Originally Posted by mz.

So John Elway, the number one pick in the draft, was not a first round pick?

So I guess the numbers suffer even more when you consider the fact that Eli Manning did the same thing Elway did.

Did I say that? Nope. I did NOT say he was not a 1st round pick...I said he DID NOT PLAY FOR THE TEAM THAT DRAFTED HIM.

And actually, E.Manning ALSO did not play for the team that drafted him...so he doesn't count as a guy that was DRAFTED TOP 2 ROUNDS AND WON THE SB FOR THE TEAM THAT DRAFTED HIM.

Those ARE the criteria here, right? That we shouldn't draft LATER guys because they don't win the SB for their original teams? That is what Shep says anyway (loosely paraphrased).

So, if only 25% of the last 16 SB's were won by teams with a top round QB that THEY ACTUALLY DRAFTED....makes you wonder.

[mz.]

Originally Posted by Vegasdogg

MZ, quit being a shill for your buddy.

A'ight.

I should have known what this would have turned into before I posted it.

Lesson learned.

[mz.]

Originally Posted by DawgFan

DRAFTED TOP 2 ROUNDS AND WON THE SB FOR THE TEAM THAT DRAFTED HIM.

I guess the fact of the matter is that there are so many variables that go into winning.

But isn't that what makes the debate fun???

[DawgFan]

Originally Posted by mz.

I guess the fact of the matter is that there are so many variables that go into winning.

But isn't that what makes the debate fun???

I LOVE THE DEBATE...and the info you brought in was great. In fact, until Shep said that the later round guys were NOT ON THE ORIGINAL TEAM that drafted them....I thought you had the issue nailed down pretty good. Alas....Shep's distaste for late rd QB's led him into a quagmire that bit him (and you) on the buttocks.

Keep it coming. I love the QB debate.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by mz.

I told you not to shoot the messenger.

This was a point of contention today and I figured others might want to see the numbers.

My bad.

I'm also unsure of how Alo's quote, used here out of context, works.

I really don't think it is a point of contention and that was my point and the point of the Alo quote.

I think almost everyone would agree that your chances are better of getting a QB that's going to win you the Superbowl when you draft them in the first round. It just makes sense. They are in that first round because of their supposed talent.

So yes, even if your numbers showed 80% of superbowl winners in the past 50 years were first round picks, that doens't change the fact (again going back to the Alo qoute) that it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with the specific discusions and decisions made when either projecting who we should draft, looking back on who we did draft, or trying to extrapolate whether or not that means someone "understands what the NFL is about today."

A large number of us happen to agree that we will not have a consistent superbowl winner until we get a great QB and passing offense. We also agree that the most likely way to get that great QB is probably going to be as a 1st round draft pick.

However many of us believed that QB was not there this year in the draft. and applaud H3 and Mangini for not reaching to take a qb in the 1st round just because the statistics say that is when you are going to get one. and we also applaud H3 and Mangini for realizing once that QB wasn't there, that the best thing to do was work on building the whole team so that when we do get that next great QB, he's not trying to carry a crappy team.

as for shooting the messenger, quit holding the targets so close to your chest.

[mz.]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

I think almost everyone would agree that your chances are better of getting a QB that's going to win you the Superbowl when you draft them in the first round. It just makes sense.

I would tend to agree with you here, but not everyone feels this way, as evidenced in this very thread.

[DawgFan]

SB Winning QB:

Via Trade
7 (Brees; E.Manning; B.Johnson; T.Dilfer; J.Elway; B.Favre)
Via 1st Rd Draft Pick
6 (P.Manning; B.Roethlisburger; T.Aikman)
Via Later Draft Pick
3 (T.Brady)
Via Supplemental Draft/USFL/CFL
2 (K.Warner; S.Young)

Of the 6 by 1st Rd picks, 2 are by Ben and 3 by Aikman...I could go back further but got tired.

Just pointing out, DRAFTING a QB in the 1st rd is hit or miss, but 1st rounders eventually pan out more often than late rounders...just often it is with another team.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by mz.

I would tend to agree with you here, but not everyone feels this way, as evidenced in this very thread.

I did say almost everyone, if you're trying to convince 100% well then I'll leave you to your impossible mission.

[golfer704u]

Also of your 1st round superbowl winners.

One I think threw 3 good passes in all his playoff games Dilfer.
One never got to the superbowl until he got a good running game to go with him. Elway.
and one had one of the best defenses in the league and a running game. Rapelisburger.

so now you're down to ist round QBs who you can rightfully argue were the real reason thier teams won the superbowl. and really Eli Manning is a stretch.

[Tobalaz]

I'd have to say that any 1st round qb that didn't win with the team that drafted them would be considered a re-tread or free agent, minus Elway and Manning. Draft-n-trades are a rare occurance.