Who wins the Super Bowl, QB-wise?

[DawgFan]

Shep, you are the KING of twisting what people say...or the parameters...to make your statement seem like the ONLY LOGICAL CHOICE!!!

With that said, the REAL DISCUSSION is how do teams GET THE QB THAT TAKES THEM TO THE SB.

With that said, in the last 20 years, only 3 QB's were DRAFTED BY THE TEAM THAT TOOK THEM TO THE SB.

The rest of the QB's were either later round picks or traded for or taken from the USFL/CFL.

My point is that there is NOT JUST ONE WAY of getting the guy. If you want to talk about anomalies....Elway and E.Manning are prime examples of methods that are just not reliable. Both were drafted by teams they REFUSED TO PLAY FOR. The team that ended up with them were LUCKY BEYOND BELIEF that they ended up with them. You cannot count on that.

The reality is, only Aikman, Big Ben, and P.Manning were drafted in the first round and won the SB for the same team in the last 20 years...so that suggests that drafting a QB in the first round is NOT necessarily a SURE FIRE WAY of going to the SB.

[Shep]

Honestly, not being coy, I think you're spinning the hell out of the data. Elway, a #1 pick, only practiced and played for one team in his career. The vagaries of draft day trades aren't even relevant to this discussion unless you're trying to spin something.

Everything I said is a fact, John. The reality is that quarterback is a first round position. The quarterbacks who have defined the modern era are Montana, Young, Aikman, Marino, Favre, Elway, Brady, and Manning. Young WAS drafted in round one, but he signed with the USFL instead of TB initially.

Young, Aikman, Marino, Elway, and Manning were not only first round picks, most were very high. Favre was LIKE a first round pick, acquired with one a year after being the 33rd pick.

Then Montana was a third and Brady was a sixth.

So six were basically first rounders, one was a third, and one was a sixth. I think that's a very realistic representation of how great quarterbacks are found.

Right now, we're talking about Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Favre, Roethlisberger, and Rivers. Four are first round picks, two are "like" first round picks... and then there's Brady.

Five are with their original teams. One got to the Super Bowl twice with his original team, the team he played for 16 years. The other, Brees, spent a fairly significant amount of time with a previous team.

[King of Kings]

Dawgfan, I get the sense you're about to join my "gang" soon. You're getting close, anyways.

That said, D.F., of course there is a fuckton of spin going on. We're just playing a charade with all this and you're missing the point: Shep wants a first round Quarterback and instead of just coming out and saying "hey guys I want the 1st round, 40 million dollar QB, can we please discuss them?" we get to run around the issue with shit like this.

[DawgFan]

Originally Posted by King of Kings

Dawgfan, I get the sense you're about to join my "gang" soon. You're getting close, anyways.

Nah, Shep and I have been bantering over this ever since I came to TBB...I hated the idea of Quinn and he was all for it....and it has gone from there.

I personally think the real question is: How successful have teams been with 1st rd QB's they themselves have drafted. It is the ONLY criteria to be used to justify actually drafting a QB in the 1st rd.

So, to me anyway, the only QB's that were DRAFTED that have led to the SB for that team are (in the last 20+ years) Aikman/Big Ben/P.Manning....and Big Ben is more a product of a great defense and great running game than on his own shoullders.

[Legacy Fan]

Originally Posted by Shep

Right now, we're talking about Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Favre, Roethlisberger, and Rivers.

We are?

Rivers gets (deserved) acclaim in fantasy leagues. He gets your acclaim because his stats (read: passer rating*) make him seem like he should belong in the previous list.

His last post-season victory came when he played for the Wolfpack. Not even close to belonging with the above list in terms of "the list."



*Perhaps defenses may have been preoccupied with a certain #21 getting the ball, and allowed Phil the Thrill play catch with the shit-stable of WRs he threw to.

Oh yeah, Gates. What ball hasn't Antonio Gates caught and turned into some stat pumping play?


Come on, man. Phillip Rivers? With Manning? Brady? Brees? Fav-rah?

[Shep]

Have a good one, King.

Originally Posted by King of Kings

Dawgfan, I get the sense you're about to join my "gang" soon. You're getting close, anyways.

That said, D.F., of course there is a fuckton of spin going on. We're just playing a charade with all this and you're missing the point: Shep wants a first round Quarterback and instead of just coming out and saying "hey guys I want the 1st round, 40 million dollar QB, can we please discuss them?" we get to run around the issue with shit like this.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by Shep

Have a good one, King.

Going somewhere?

[Rich4eagle]

Originally Posted by Shep

Honestly, not being coy, I think you're spinning the hell out of the data. Elway, a #1 pick, only practiced and played for one team in his career. The vagaries of draft day trades aren't even relevant to this discussion unless you're trying to spin something.

Everything I said is a fact, John. The reality is that quarterback is a first round position. The quarterbacks who have defined the modern era are Montana, Young, Aikman, Marino, Favre, Elway, Brady, and Manning. Young WAS drafted in round one, but he signed with the USFL instead of TB initially.

Young, Aikman, Marino, Elway, and Manning were not only first round picks, most were very high. Favre was LIKE a first round pick, acquired with one a year after being the 33rd pick.

Then Montana was a third and Brady was a sixth.

So six were basically first rounders, one was a third, and one was a sixth. I think that's a very realistic representation of how great quarterbacks are found.

Right now, we're talking about Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Favre, Roethlisberger, and Rivers. Four are first round picks, two are "like" first round picks... and then there's Brady.

Five are with their original teams. One got to the Super Bowl twice with his original team, the team he played for 16 years. The other, Brees, spent a fairly significant amount of time with a previous team.

I am with you Shep. Dawgfan did spin reality into sumtim. Elway was a top 1 pick and E. Manning refused to play for SD or did he? Eli was drafted by SD, Rivers by the Giants in the first and third picks respectively. When he Eli moaned they traded QB's. it was a draft day swap between the one pick and three pick in the first round and may have included a draft choice.

In any case if you like roulette and not playing in many bowls you wait for a Franchise QB to fall in your lap. Or you go after them when you have a top pick. we blew it huge when we passed on Ben in that same draft with the six pick after those two went and the greatest OL guy from Iowa who made the Raiders such a force as the second pick and Larry Fitzgerald as the fourth pick and Sean (got murdered) as the fifth pick by the Redskins and Winsblow by us as he sixth pick...........

Hmmm............which teams benefitted.........the most by whom

Redskins Raiders Browns wallowing since ........Arizona has Fitzgerald, SD has Rivers and the Giants have Eli (who I think is ovverrated)

Spins it right back to Franchise QB's are the key and offensive skill players and Offense wins Championships and OL guys are dime a dozen........

[Rich4eagle]

Originally Posted by DawgFan

Nah, Shep and I have been bantering over this ever since I came to TBB...I hated the idea of Quinn and he was all for it....and it has gone from there.

I personally think the real question is: How successful have teams been with 1st rd QB's they themselves have drafted. It is the ONLY criteria to be used to justify actually drafting a QB in the 1st rd.

So, to me anyway, the only QB's that were DRAFTED that have led to the SB for that team are (in the last 20+ years) Aikman/Big Ben/P.Manning....and Big Ben is more a product of a great defense and great running game than on his own shoullders.

Oh please Ben is product of a great running game etc..........how many bowls did the Steelers win with the great running game(btw the last Bowl they won they had no running game) and perennial great defense without Ben or Bradshaw??? Not seeing how good Ben is makes a case about your assessing of QB's quite questionable

[Legacy Fan]

Originally Posted by Rich4eagle

Not seeing how good Ben is makes a case about your assessing of QB's quite questionable

So does ignoring his performance in his 1st SB appearance.
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[Rich4eagle]

Originally Posted by Legacy Fan

So does ignoring his performance in his 1st SB appearance.
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How many Super Bowls has Ben won.........how many did the Steelers win from 1980 until 2006

I will answer for you NONE

denial is more than a river it makes one subject to losing instead of winning

[Legacy Fan]

Also, I'm glad that everyone now agrees that including Rivers on this "the list" is laughable. I certainly felt that way, which is why I was compelled to point it out.






I would hate to sit through another Wimbledon today.
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