The Leinart/DA Thread

[Crow]

Leinart just didn't work out

He wasn't a toxic waste cough syrup chugging arrested for prescription drug abuse disaster

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Shep

Actually, a lot of people have said Leinart trained his ass off (fitness wise and study wise) to prepare for his big shot as the starter. Warner praised him and so did that reporter he's buddies with. Teammates stood up for him, too... which seems bizarre now.

The takeaway for me is that he did work really hard to prepare and really does feel that Whisenhunt has pulled his plug prematurely and had it out for him all along. I suspect Whiz disagrees.

That's the nature of these things.

For the sake of fairness, I'm a Trojan fan and those years were a blast. I'm like Tom or Rich with Troy Smith... it's tough for me to be very objective.

That's because you're understanding the difference between being a football fan (which includes invested emotions from a college team/player you like) and being paid to get the opinion correct, which you don't have to do.

The INTERESTING thing about the debate Shep is that Whisenhunt actually DEFENDED Leinart's work ethic as Masters alluded to. The sports journalist Theresa Brown that gets the MOST access to the Titans got some insight from some of the right people when the Cardinals stayed here the week following the exhibition game to practice with the Titans. She said, ALOT of the people not trusting Leinart as a leader are many of the current veteran players on the roster. There's a feeling in the air that some vets with clout have even addressed Whisenhunt about him. If that's the case, it's tough to pin all the blame on Whisenhunt.

Leinart is gonna have to do an honest soul search. It sounds like he needs the same change of scenery Kerry Collins once needed after he fell out of favor with teammates in Carolina. There was also a little too much partying going on before much was accomplished on the field. I guarantee that kind of thing is gonna put leadership in question at warped speed. Maybe the first red flag about his willingness to commit everything to the NFL was when he chose pottery, partying and 1 more year of easy street at USC over starting the NFL career when he should have.

- Tom F.

[Shep]

Tom, I think the truth of this kinds of disputes (Whiz V. Leinart) are rarely black or white, but somewhere in between. I think there's too much smoke to not believe their relationship wasn't toxic (and on fire, to hold the metaphor).

Now, that's not to say Whiz made all his decisions because they were allergic to each other... but the instant heebie-jeebies affected everything that came after.

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Shep

Huh? What venom? What the hell are you talking about? I don't think I understood a word of this post.

Alex Smith is a bust because Matt Leinart got cut? Or because J-Fat is unemployed?

Again... who's being "venomous?" 'Splain yourself, Lucy. Or are we acting out that flight attendant scene from "Anger Management?" And, SCENE!

It was a joke shep.........................get a grip

I was talking about a few of your noted touted QB busts to go along with Leinhart and said hold the angry retort (venomous) because I knew one was coming and it was just a ball busting joke.

Forget it Mr. Sensitive I'll go play with someone else. Someone with a sense of humor. Is that Splain'n enough for ya.

[Alo]

You missed Tom's point: it's about the players not having confidence in Leinart, not Whisenhunt.

[Shep]

Didn't miss the point, just got called out of the room before I could write anything more lucid or meaningful (!). My response was more of a big picture summary, meaning that it's tough to really know how Leinart's teammates feel in what has turned into a bit of a witch hunt.

During the offseason, Leinart got a lot of love from teammates for his work ethic. Yet now we're told everybody on earth hates the kid and he's total garbage. We're also told that any implication that Whisenhunt ever had it out for Leinart must be absurd because the coach just said nice things about him.

I think Leinart hasn't looked real terrific in cameos or this preseason... but I also think he got caught up in some personality issues prior to his second year, when he could be forgiven for assuming it was his job and his team. I think it's possible that as his frustration grew he managed to alienate a teammate or two along the way (there!).

BUT... my bottom line point was that these situations can never really be known in any kind of meaningful way. It's a matter of perspective.

But no... I didn't misunderstand Tom's post.

[Shep]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

It was a joke shep.........................get a grip

I was talking about a few of your noted touted QB busts to go along with Leinhart and said hold the angry retort (venomous) because I knew one was coming and it was just a ball busting joke.

Forget it Mr. Sensitive I'll go play with someone else. Someone with a sense of humor. Is that Splain'n enough for ya.

I'm just not understanding your inflections or something... or where the joking around is. You said I was "venomous," and I couldn't figure out what you meant, that's all. No need to get all venomous about it.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Shep

Didn't miss the point, just got called out of the room before I could write anything more lucid or meaningful (!). My response was more of a big picture summary, meaning that it's tough to really know how Leinart's teammates feel in what has turned into a bit of a witch hunt.

During the offseason, Leinart got a lot of love from teammates for his work ethic. Yet now we're told everybody on earth hates the kid and he's total garbage. We're also told that any implication that Whisenhunt ever had it out for Leinart must be absurd because the coach just said nice things about him.

I think Leinart hasn't looked real terrific in cameos or this preseason... but I also think he got caught up in some personality issues prior to his second year, when he could be forgiven for assuming it was his job and his team. I think it's possible that as his frustration grew he managed to alienate a teammate or two along the way (there!).

BUT... my bottom line point was that these situations can never really be known in any kind of meaningful way. It's a matter of perspective.

But no... I didn't misunderstand Tom's post.

What's interesting about the QB class of Leinart, Cutler and Young is that all 3 have had maturity on trial in their first NFL cities. NONE of them handled adversity well regardless of reasons. As much as I predicted success for VY - I still don't know how he will respond the next time he pulls a groin, and then a hammy so he's confined to a pocket again. What's always gotten him the uncontested targets and/or uncontested 1st down runs is when he breaks outside contain and presses the line of scrimmage. You add cement to his cleats (via injury) and he had public panic attacks nobody saw coming.

This ain't college where the QB gets crowned Gran Poobah, receives a free education costing others double digit k, and choice of hotties is the toughest decisions of the week. This is where you gotta manup and show America why you get paid upper first round cake to be a franchise QB. People paying top buck to follow these teams don't care that these QBs gotta EARN their starting jobs. When these guys act out that life changed since the scholarship ended - they FORGET the real world is all about proving yourself every day. The more you make - the more you gotta justify it.

Believe me when I tell you Whisenhunt knows how important it is to have a 1st round QB succeed. It's not in his best interest to hope the kid doesn't win over his teammates. RAC got fired and fans rejoiced everywhere because from our end - we thought he was just being a stubborn fool.

Interestingly enough, Derek Anderson has become the SAME alternative to Leinart that he was to Brady Quinn. If you're an olineman, do you want the QB that releases the ball quicker or holds onto it forever? Which guy instills your trust more? And WHO makes your unit look like it can protect better? That being the case, who do you suppose wins over the most important people in your offense? The guy that can make the blue collar guys busting tail upfront look better. Kurt Warner's quick release BECAME what the oline expected there.

Unfortunately, for Arizona Derek Anderson does not have Warner's accuracy or well informed reads. He'll still WIN favor of the oline. I'm just not sure the accuracy issues are gonna be as well received by everyone else, which includes all the fannies in the seats and receivers he'll hang out to dry.

It sounds like RAC listened to his oline which walked him out to the edge of the plank. Is Whisenhunt doing the same thing to his Head Coaching gig? Not sure. But I AM sure he wasn't rooting against Matt Leinart to succeed when he understands QBs make or break Head Coaches. Missing in all this is that Leinart never WON over his oline and we can't pin this on Whisenhunt.
- Tom F.

[Shep]

Good post, Tom. Yeah, just as quick as Whiz crowns DA a starter, any chance that I'm suddenly gonna respect him went right out the window.

Interesting thing is, both Leinart and Quinn were glamor guys from glamor programs, maybe carrying some residual entitlement... and both times, DA got to be the "Gee Shucks" guy, the have-a-beer-with-him guy. The guy you'll see the OC huck-chuckling it up with on sideline.

Just sayin'. Stories are eerily similar.

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Shep

I'm just not understanding your inflections or something... or where the joking around is. You said I was "venomous," and I couldn't figure out what you meant, that's all. No need to get all venomous about it.

Is that a joke or just a poor attempt at humor?

[Shep]

Both?

[NDneighbor]

It's Back. Sorry.

Just curious. For those who saw this game;

If you were Whisenhunt and deciding who to start in the next game, would you:

A. start DA ?

B. start Hall ?

C. call Warner's wife and try to be persuasive ?

D. get desperate and call Jeff Garcia even though he's hanging out with Clarett now. ?