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Thread: Who's The Real MVP? LBJ/Westbrook/Harden/Curry/ADavis

  1. #1
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    Default Who's The Real MVP? LBJ/Westbrook/Harden/Curry/ADavis

    LeBron?
    James Harden?
    Russell Westbrook?
    Stephen Curry?
    Anthony Davis?

    What keeps them from being declared MVP?
    Who is the season's Most Valuable Player, and why?

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    Curry is the best player on the best team, but that makes him no Most Valuable Player. Golden State is so deep, they would NOT tumble down the standings if Curry weren't on their team. His serious inclusion in the discussion is a joke to me. His numbers don't add up either.

    Russell Westbrook, LeBron & James Harden are the 3 in the discussion for me....

    (but feel free to make arguments for Curry)

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    GREAT threat Lou!

    I feel AD should be in the discussion but with New Orleans on the outside looking in, I think he will be a fixture in the future so long as his knees don't go the way of Patrick Ewings...

    LeBron: Simply put, our All Star, the only reason we're even entertaining the discussion of playoffs at this point and time. Kyrie has played very well not being the centerpoint but it's LeBron who IMO arguably deserves this award most. The Cavs are (arguably) the Easts most dominant team. 7 of our players rank in the top 15 of Player Efficiency Rating since January, guess who's #2? LeBron (Steph Curry #1, FYI). He runs the offense, and he's the reason we are achieving the success we are.

    Westbrook, and Harden are both very deserving. I think Steph deserves it but like you said GS is the best team in the NBA, you have to look at players like Klay and Bogut who were both huge for the Warriors this year, and others. Currys numbers are not very good when you put them side-by-side with Westbrook.

    It's a three horse race to me too, but I think Westbrook has been the most dominant player. LeBron/Harden the most valuable to their teams...
    Last edited by Enigmatic Evil; 04-05-2015 at 11:15 AM.
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

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    Great post, Evil!
    I notice Westbrook has the best stats, too.
    So it's Stephen Curry to those voters that take the best player on the best team (or LeBron in 2015 only*)...
    it's Russell Westbrook to the voters that go by best overall statistics...
    it's James Harden to those traditionalists by the eye-ball test...

    and it's LeBron James to those that step back and understand "most valuable" in it's truest sense.

    LeBron stepped into a huge transition, one that evolved thru a roster overhaul mid-season.
    *The Cavs have been right there with GS for the best record since, going 31-6.
    Seeing the team develop with LeBron over the season has been breathtaking. He's bringing everyone along WITH him.

    LeBron James has run the race to finish with The Ultimate Prize...
    while guys like Westbrook & Harden have played the season to win an award.

    Let the hardware be dealt as it may in 2015... the Real MVP resides in Cleveland.

    Nothing disputes this fact, even if writers mail hardware to a WRONG address.
    Last edited by Lou Groza; 04-06-2015 at 07:30 AM.

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    EE, I'm saving Anthony Davis for the coming years... though his performance is MVP-worthy. He's been incredible!!

    I can't believe the scorer he's become. He'll get his hardware...

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    I don't play fantasy basketball because of guys like Anthony Davis & LeBron James.

    Actually, it was Kevin Garnett --
    He was the man that did me in during his prime, while still with Minnesota.

    The fact was: if you didn't have the #1 pick you had a severely limited chance of winning the league.

    It might have been "fair" if the team selecting #1 forfeited their next pick... that's what it would have taken, and even then - they still would've maintained the best chance of winning the league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lou Groza View Post
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    EE, I'm saving Anthony Davis for the coming years... though his performance is MVP-worthy. He's been incredible!!

    I can't believe the scorer he's become. He'll get his hardware...
    For me, it's Davis' defensive prowess. All anyone talked about was how natural he was in the post when he was breaking in. I don't think anyone expected him to be so dominant defensively so quickly. How much he's progressed in such a short span of time has really been remarkable. He could be the biggest star in the NBA one day.

    This was the first season in years I played fantasy basketball. I actually did pretty good. I turned the most roster moves in my league by a considerable margin in to a 4th place team and a semi-finals finish. Not bad.
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

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    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    For me, it's Davis' defensive prowess.

    This was the first season in years I played fantasy basketball. I actually did pretty good. I turned the most roster moves in my league by a considerable margin in to a 4th place team and a semi-finals finish. Not bad.
    I understood it the other way around: I always thought AD's defensive prowess was a given, he's always been a rim protector... and that it was his scoring and offense that needed most development.

    Congrats on that... hawking the wire to get a semi-final finish. I love hawking the waiver wire... it's one thing I love in fantasy.
    I remember it was Kevin Garnett scoring about 75 fantasy ppg and young LeBron & a couple others scored barely over 50fp/g, then maybe 10 guys scored around 45 & on down. The team with Garnett just had a huuuuuge advantage...
    This would've been a MUCH better year to play!

    Who was the top fantasy scorer or two, on your team than finished 3rd/4th?

    My fantasy's been football, World Cup, & English Premier League in recent years. Every 3rd year or so I'll do baseball or hockey. Hockey's been too easy... but baseball's a good challenge.
    Nothing beats a good football league though; I like ones with extended lineups & rosters with reduced scoring for team defenses and also Individual Defensive Players. I can't stand it the weeks a fantasy defense puts up the same points the top skill players put up... that drives me nuts.

    Have you played with guys from BarkingHard?
    I'd like to get in a keeper/dynasty league for 10 years!

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    I've played Fantasy Football with the guys here, we have a league every year. No other sports though. I used to be REALLY heavy in to fantasy sports and then I kind of lost interest as I became more obsessed with football I lost touch with a lot of other sports I used to follow. Hockey took a serious hit after the Canucks failed cup run. My apathy with the Jays couldn't be higher, but I'm giving Fantasy Baseball a try this year. Fantasy Hockey is where it all started in Middle School lmao.

    My fantasy basketball team was as follows, current lineup configuration:

    PG: John Wall
    SG: Goran Dragic (those two guys were probably my most consistent contributors. They were autodrafted to me...)
    G: Marcus Smart (backup PG was a revolving door all year. I rocked Donald Sloan for a couple weeks while he was hot as an example :P)
    SF: Tyreke Evans
    PF: Ed Davis (another revolving door position)
    F: James Johnson
    C: Andrew Bogut (another big contributor, defensive stats and rebounds)
    C: Amir Asik (backup C was another revolving door. I had insurance though...)
    Utility: Courtney Lee
    Utility: Jarrett Jack
    B: Joe Johnson
    B: Robert Covington
    B: Nerlens Noel

    So I had some steady contributors. Noel was a nice landing. He was rough to start but he had plenty of hot streaks and he's going to be a big time NBA Player.

    To go back to Davis, and his defense. I'm not just talking about his interior defense. We're talking about a man of his size who is quick enough to guard forwards on the perimiter. He's so big, he probably scares the crap out of people thinking of shooting the three when N.O is working their help D. He is so aware out there and can cover such a wide area of the court. When I talk about his defensive prowess, I don't mean fundamentals, I'm talking about his total package defensive player. He's going to be the kind of player who is all-defensive team every single year for a long time.
    Last edited by Enigmatic Evil; 04-07-2015 at 12:43 AM.
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

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    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

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    Anthony Davis is ridiculous already... thanks for clearing up the D in depth!

    I CANT BELIEVE you parlayed THAT team into a 3rd/4th place finish after a Semi-finals appearance.

    Kudos to you, friend!

    When I played hockey, it was ridiculous the teams I could assemble... I could have 3 of the top 10 scorers AT EACH POSITION by the mid-way point. I never experienced fantasy success to that extent in my life... and I've enjoyed a lot.

    So you think if I put together a Keeper/Dynasty League for 10-12 guys we could fill it from BarkingHard and have at least 6 guys keep their teams for about a decade? That's what I'd really like to do.

    I'd like to keep a good # of players, but have a little exchange system that would allow for most teams to make a Championship push in a year or two with savvy decisions. I wouldn't want people feeling trapped under a glass ceiling, getting bored.
    Last edited by Lou Groza; 04-10-2015 at 04:32 AM.

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    The Football Keeper would be something like:

    2 QB
    2 TE
    3 WR
    2 RB
    4 T/W/R
    2 T/W/D
    1 Def
    1 DL
    3 LB
    1 DB
    No kicker, unless some guys hissyfitted... I'm a purist & value simplification at times

    Bench of 4-5 with 1-2 injury spots, if possible.

    Typical basic scoring for offensive players, no point-per-reception or milestone bonuses.
    Defense & IDP would be limited, so scores wouldn't be high, approaching the scores top skilled guys put up. That pisses me off.
    They'll affect the game, but like a mediocre skilled player, no higher.

    First round of keepers would be 2 & the lowest team picks a remaining guy from any other team first. Once a team has a player selected from it, it cannot lose another guy. The final pick of the round is the returning Champ selecting from the only team that hasn't lost a player.
    The next round of keepers, each team protects 5 guys & we repeat the process.
    Then, we each have 6 -- the 5 we protected and the 1 we picked... the remaining players are put in a snaking draft with all incoming rookies to fill out the rosters for the coming season.

    Any suggestions/comments?
    Last edited by Lou Groza; 04-10-2015 at 05:12 AM.

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    Well this is veering in to something that should be posted in the Fantasy Island subforum (where we talk Fantasy Football)

    I run the league, but Gabe I believe has the admin priveliges and what not so I'm not sure if it's easy to change a league in to a keeper league or not and I really like the idea of getting a keeper league started. I've never done one before. We have a number of regulars to the league who are not regulars on the forum (though 'old school' posters you see once in a blue moon now), so coordination may be difficult. However, that being said I'm sure it would generate interest.

    To be honest LG, to play that team to that success tells me I know more about Baskeball than I think :P It's the best I've done in fantasy sports in a while. I'm going to play Fantasy Hockey this next season. The Jets made the playoffs, people are so excited. I'm glad I got to see them make the playoffs once before I moved from Winnipeg.

    Edit: that sounds... not very modest but what I mean is that maybe compared to Football (sure I'm knowledgeable but not really... ) Basketball is kind of a simple sport hahaha.
    Last edited by Enigmatic Evil; 04-11-2015 at 10:35 AM.
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

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    I'm glad the Jets made the playoffs & you got that thrill while in Winnipeg... are there any old-timers out on their skates with sticks because they're so happy?!

    I decided to say "fuck it, Anthony Davis was MVP for this season."

    It's true.

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    Nah just a lot of drunks in public lmao. I'm sure if I was downtown after the game it might've been a bit more crazy but I haven't heard/seen a ton of excitement. I forgot to check the papers. I was sure it would be front page news, the Jets finally making the playoffs lmao.

    The thing about AD that is especially special, just watch him next time you get a chance. This is only what his third season? He plays like a guy with a decades experience. Like he was a basketball pro reincarnated in to a basketball pro. He's going to be my favourite player of the 'next' generation.
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

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    And he SHOULD be MVP this season....

    the Pelicans would be dumpster diving in the standings struggling for 20 wins without Anthony Davis.
    Even OKC w/o Westbrook is a 35+ win team with the veterans & other talent they have.
    GS w/o Curry may STILL be the best in the West - they're definitely still in the playoffs.
    HOU w/o Harden is still definitely a playoff team w/ good energy; they have guys that'd step up.
    the Cavs w/o LeBron would be sitting in the bottom half of the playoff mix in the East, with Love.

    It's Anthony Davis this season, hands down.
    But NOOOOOO- the MVP is a joke award half the time, like this season.

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    This award lost it luster. when Kobe only wins it once in his LIFE .........AYFKM

    Would you take any of the candidates over LBJ in a trade ? case closed. next question
    Always remember sports are like women:
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    I dunno dude, I am a big James Harden fan... that final season he had in OKC, I will be a fan forever after that. Dude can straight up ball. Steph Curry, the smoothest shot in basketball? AD...

    I dunno mmw, love me some King James but I'd trade for anyone on that list.

    How many MVP's did Shaq win when he was a Laker?
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    How many MVP's did Shaq win when he was a Laker?
    one

    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    I dunno mmw, love me some King James but I'd trade for anyone on that list.
    smh
    Kindly explain that ?

    Some of those guys just might be better than LBJ in 2020 or 2021
    but Jesus might be here before that lol
    Always remember sports are like women:
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    Your question was...

    Quote Originally Posted by madmadworld View Post
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    Would you take any of the candidates over LBJ in a trade ? case closed. next question
    Now, imagine a scenario where say we could have worked a deal to bring any of these dudes in instead of LeBron this season. Two critical points I'd like to make. 1) Would we be as good? No. 2) Are any of these guys better than LeBron right now? No.

    Now who would I take?

    Harden: A Irving/Harden backcourt really entices me, dunno who we'd play at the 3, probably still JR, If you take out LeBron and add Harden, I think we're still one of the best teams in the East, and Harden is still one of the top scorers in the NBA... he shares the ball well too. His job in OKC as the 6th man was to run the second offense, he ran it through himself a lot then because they had fuck all other than him coming off the bench lmao. He's shown in Houston he can be very responsible on both ends of the court.

    A. Davis: As his praise has been ample, I would take a player that could be a force on my frontcourt for the next 15 years. A hypothetical Love/Davis with TT/Moz coming off the bench, that's really exciting to me. Gives us a LOT more complete depth. Who would start at SG? I imagine JR at the 3 as the above scenario so we would be very exposed there. Shump in to the starting lineup, then what. Joe Harris? Lmao we're fucked... so this scenario is a project scenario.

    Westbrook. Would NOT trade for him. We have a Westbrook already, his name is Kyrie Irving.

    Lastly Steph Curry: Like Harden, a Curry/Irving backcourt is reallly exciting to me. IS Kyrie strong enough to guard 2-guards though? Steph Curry can guard SG's but we would have a very undersized backcourt in this scenario. However, if Blatt was creative, he could come up with some interesting rotations to keep Kyrie and Steph both fresh, and always have one on the court at a time, sometimes both. This is probably the least upside of the viable options. Steph Curry is a great player but his greatness in GS is accentuated by the fact that they are one of the strongest teams in the entire association. I probably wouldn't make the move to bring Curry in.

    Is that answer sufficient? I know what King James brings to the table here and I know what he contributes, but I think of the alternatives, we really wouldn't be much worse if any with Harden instead of James IMO. Harden or Davis are the only ones I would even CONSIDER considering over James.
    Last edited by Enigmatic Evil; 04-12-2015 at 08:24 PM.
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    Is that answer sufficient?
    yes

    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    Two critical points I'd like to make. 1) Would we be as good? No. 2) Are any of these guys better than LeBron right now? No.
    LBJ is a all time great. the best player today and the past 5+ years imo
    for me that is the definition of MVP. he has taken that from Kobe from Shaq from MJ from Bird & Magic from Kareem. arguments can be made for others but would fall on deaf ears here. lol
    there were the 2 years MJ took off that Olajuwon took it.

    Trading him for any other would be a big risk, health wise for all save Harden it seems imo
    Harden for me is just a ball hog who does not make others better. other than taking pressure off them.
    in the same mold as AI, Gervin etc

    Basically if it is a pick up game and all NBA ers are lined up I'll take LBJ every time everyday.
    Always remember sports are like women:
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    I agree completely that Harden is a ball hog. I don't disagree, if you're picking between the two its LBJ every time.

    I like Harden, but I'd almost be more inclined to build a team around Anthony Davis. I just think he's a very special talent.

    However, LeBron coming home to Cleveland to win the championship. He wants to write his legacy in that way, I kind of respect that but I still can't get over "the decision" in my gut.

    OKC dropped the ball not doing anything they could to keep Harden a Thunder. They would be a perennial contender. Houston? Well we will see but I dunno...
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

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    OKC dropped the ball and drove a 18 wheeler over it.
    I'm hard pressed off the top of my head to remember a bigger mistake by a organization.
    that bird was in the hand. they @ worse had to pay $$,$$$,$$$.00 luxury tax. just raise ticket prices tell the fans why etc happy fans in that town ..win ..win
    Always remember sports are like women:
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    the most important reading you might ever do.
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    Default Anthony Davis

    When he's out there Fantastic, but being young now and not able to play a full season after 3 years....
    but there are not a lot of better choices for a big. they were 6-8 without him this year 39 - 29 with him.
    cost them 3 wins ?
    He could be the next Duncan with range ....scary.. if healthy.

    They have a fair team around him if some of the others step up...in the next few years.
    Always remember sports are like women:
    High School all the girls play,
    NCAA only good looking girls play,
    Pro's only the Super Models play !

    the most important reading you might ever do.
    http://web.archive.org/web/201607010.../genescott.htm

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    That's why I bring up Ewing who was also limited by injuries. AD has a better overall game, Ewing one of my favourites when I was younger but wasn't he frequently battling the injuries too?
    BROWNS 2017: BREAK OUT THE BBQ, WE'RE GRILLING RATBIRD THIS WEEK!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!

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