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Thread: Linebackers!

  1. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaydog View Post
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    Mingo might not see the field much bro. Good Luck.
    Still be a better result than my Braylon jersey...
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaydog View Post
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    I can appreciate you always giving him a pass whether it's his injuries or something else, but Donovan was filling in for Drennan on Drennan Live and he intimated something to the effect of now that Mingo is healthy he'll be expected to do what he was drafted to do...Sack QB's.
    I don't think I am giving him a pass...just trying to be realistic.

    First year he did well, then hit the rookie wall. Many OLB's do as they must learn more outside contain AND additional moves. Second year he was hurt. Shoulder is huge in the ability to use hands to shed blockers...a key attribute to pass rushing.

    As for the pass rush part, it may be that he is expected to do more, but I also heard the DC stating that Mingo was his BEST coverage LB. You don't bench the BEST player at any skill, especially when passing is such a top priority. Basically, if Mingo can cover the LB/TE, that frees up the other OLB to rush the passer...and also frees up a DB for the pass rush. Gives the D more options.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



  3. #27
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    I don't see much chance of Mingo "not getting on the field much," but who knows. He's a great athlete, a great kid, he's done a lot of things really well, and now his shoulder is well. I agree the team will expect him to "get there" more than so many "almosts," but I just don't see him sitting on the bench.

    Let's see what Orchard does in preseason. His split isn't very good for an edge rusher but he has that motor... so I'm cautiously optimistic. And while I love Solomon, I don't think he's an edge rusher.

    Armonty? That's another story. He looks like a natural edge to me.

  4. #28
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    I wanna see mingo play inside. He can cover. So dansby doesnt have to. He is fast enough....

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    I don't think he's an ILB at all. BTW, Adkins just said Browns really like Mingo, gets points for playing hurt last year, high expectations in 2015. In great condition, 240 the right weight for him.

    With all the 3 and outs, won't have time to get Dansby, Robertson, and Kirksey enough snaps! Let alone Carder!

  6. #30
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    If orchard does impress and out plays mingo, mingo will probably be demoted. Injuries happen....

    But, I think they need to play it this way

    Tramon Will. Gipson whitner haden
    Kruger mingo dansby orchard
    Cooper shelton starks

    See what the rookies got.

    Id play desir at fs and at #2cb if given chance.

    Gilbert needs to play somewhere. And special teams. I think if he geta on field and can make a play he would be auper excites about work he puttin in and be willing play anywhere.

    Gaines campbell and ifo all have chance to push for playing time somewhere.

    I dont see gipson staying.... ifo,desir,gilbert,gaines,campbell,poyer, farmer will elect to save the cash for offense or mlb /de.

    Sign and trade maybe? I dont want to see him go,but hes gonna want bigg money. If pryor,mayle, or someone can blow up we may cut bowe next year if he dont play up to #1wr.

    If mack leaves and erving goes to center,we need more line help. The $ mack would be giving up would put us in great position to go after 3 top quality players.

    Gipson mack and we got mad $. If nothing else, mack could be like sign and trade so we can atleast get something.... even a 3rd be badass.

    Mccown can be cut if he dont play up to par.

    Aj mccarron, mettenberger, russell wilson....


    Id do mack and gipson and swap 1sts for wilson. All 3 have new contracts b4 the deal finalized. Id give wilson 24mill fuck it... mack is 12 i think. Gipson is gonna want that too probably especially if he has another probowl year and healthy. Money be equal or in our favor.

    Wed win titles

  7. #31
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    I'll agree with this: They should start giving Desir reps at FS because Gipson is asking for too much. Jordan Poyer is already a starter quality FS and those two competing would be fantastic.

    Haden and Gilbert are gonna be starting outside for the next several years with K'Wuan in the slot (after a year of Tramon outside). Gaines is the 2nd slot. Desir can either beat out Poyer or be the "nickel safety," a hot buzzword these days. Plus, the Oregon kid comes back next year.

    I was one of Gipson's early adaptors, a huge fan... but I don't like the cap allocation of having "the highest paid FS." Argh.

  8. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgFan View Post
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    I don't think I am giving him a pass...just trying to be realistic.

    First year he did well, then hit the rookie wall. Many OLB's do as they must learn more outside contain AND additional moves. Second year he was hurt. Shoulder is huge in the ability to use hands to shed blockers...a key attribute to pass rushing.

    As for the pass rush part, it may be that he is expected to do more, but I also heard the DC stating that Mingo was his BEST coverage LB. You don't bench the BEST player at any skill, especially when passing is such a top priority. Basically, if Mingo can cover the LB/TE, that frees up the other OLB to rush the passer...and also frees up a DB for the pass rush. Gives the D more options.
    Fair enough. I just don't see value for the 6th pick in the draft if his best attribute is covering guys. We got similar LB's like Kirksey to do those same things, cheaper. And his weakness is well being weak. He's got to get stronger because if passing is a priority then sacking the QB is a priority.
    "The quarterback question lingers, but the Browns traded and traded and traded and traded and traded and acquired nine players and three high draft choices.

    It's tough to argue those results." Pat McManamon 5-3-16

  9. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaydog View Post
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    Fair enough. I just don't see value for the 6th pick in the draft if his best attribute is covering guys. We got similar LB's like Kirksey to do those same things, cheaper. And his weakness is well being weak. He's got to get stronger because if passing is a priority then sacking the QB is a priority.
    I think this is the issue with most fans and the national media. They are still trying to justify the 6th pick. In reality, if he doesn't get the sacks he likley isn't 'worth' a 6th overall... but at this point that doesn't matter. The price has been paid.

    The only question remaining is what value can be garnered by the player, and is it better than the value of moving on.

    Pettine has said that Mingo did all the dirty work, did all the non-glorius stuff that doesn't show up in the stat sheets. Teams need guys like that...and if that guy also happens to be fast/athletic enough to cover TE's/RB's...able to come on a blitz as a 2nd or 3rd option...and still set an edge...well, then that guy has value...just not quite the way he was drafted to provide it.

    I look at Pettine's D in Buffalo and NY.

    In Buffalo, no player had more than 13.5 sacks...but they had 4 with at least 7.5 sacks. In NY 2010 they had 40 sacks, no player had more than 6.0...but 7 players had at least 3 sacks. In 2011 they had 35, but again nobody with more than 6 and 7 with at least 2.5 sacks. Pettine is about spreading the wealth when it comes to sacks...so I am not sure Mingo will ever get the numbers that 'justify' what some here want to see from a 6th overall pick.

    His value in covering the TE/RB gives flexibility to do corner and safety blitzes...as well as blitzing the OLB...AND the ILB's.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



  10. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaydog View Post
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    Fair enough. I just don't see value for the 6th pick in the draft if his best attribute is covering guys. We got similar LB's like Kirksey to do those same things, cheaper. And his weakness is well being weak. He's got to get stronger because if passing is a priority then sacking the QB is a priority.
    You're not wrong. Having a linebacker, selected in the first round, who cannot rush the passer? That's not good enough. He is good in coverage, but that's wasted. It's like having a running back who can't run but getting excited about his blocking. Pass rush is a priority at the position, and he needs to learn how to do it.

    More so than strength, I'd like to see him finally develop his technique. He's really not shown too much in that area.

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    "We think Mingo is becoming a very good football player who can help us win, but we're cutting him because he was picked sixth and isn't getting enough sacks."

    Dawg's right. That's not solid thinking. An overdrafted player isn't a bad player. He might even be a very good one who continues getting better. Players develop at different rates and in different ways, and they often aren't exactly what you thought they were.

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    Cleveland Browns ‏@Browns 2m2 minutes ago
    Scott Solomon impressed this spring – can he keep it up at #BrownsCamp?

    OLB PREVIEW: http://bit.ly/OLBs0723
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
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    I'll agree with this: They should start giving Desir reps at FS because Gipson is asking for too much. Jordan Poyer is already a starter quality FS and those two competing would be fantastic.

    Haden and Gilbert are gonna be starting outside for the next several years with K'Wuan in the slot (after a year of Tramon outside). Gaines is the 2nd slot. Desir can either beat out Poyer or be the "nickel safety," a hot buzzword these days. Plus, the Oregon kid comes back next year.

    I was one of Gipson's early adaptors, a huge fan... but I don't like the cap allocation of having "the highest paid FS." Argh.

    Agree.... sorry, Gipson, but tackling is soooo important for a safety & you don't tackle with the best of 'em....

    I'm actually hoping Ifo Ekpre-Olomu -the Oregon kid- is pegged for FS if his knee recovers... he's natural talent & insticts to rival Gipson at the position, I think.... and he tackles even better.

    At least if Gipson want paid like a top FS, he's got to prove a turnover machine for another season. Farmer's making the right calls....

  14. #38
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    Just let it sink in that the deal Gip is looking for, is the deal that we gave Des fucking Bryant. Gip ain't being greedy. He's top 2/3 at his position in every measurable way and deserves every cent he's asking for.

    I am legit shocked it's even debated. How can we not want this guy locked down, much less pretend he's expendable for fucking Jordan Poyer? Unreal.

  15. #39
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    B/R has a decent article about why Mingo has "everything to prove" in camp this year. (Tried to copy link from TeamStream but no dice)

    From the article...

    Granted, Mingo played all of 2014 with a torn labrum that he had surgically repaired in the offseason, something that should result in better on-field production. But questions linger about exactly how many on-field opportunities he will get this year without a strong training camp.

    That's not only because the team drafted another outside linebacker this year, Nate Orchard in Round 2, though that certainly is something that could affect Mingo in 2015. But it's also because of the impression made on the Browns coaching staff by Scott Solomon, as well as their plans for Armonty Bryant in the pass rush.

    From DC O'Neil "He is going to have to compete for playing time on early downs. He's going to have a role in our sub-packages. No one is guaranteed anything on the defense. You're going to have to earn playing time. We're deep in every position group. Mingo is going to have to come back ready to go, and he's going to have to earn it... Guys are going to have to earn it. We don't care where you were drafted, when you were drafted, how much you're getting paid; the best 11 guys and the guys who earn their roles are the guys who are going to play."
    BROWNS 2017: FUCK IT, DUDE... LET'S GO BOWLING

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

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    Mingo is a good backup that's it. Not big enough,and for us to not try him at ilb like packers did with clay matthews, we are never innovative enough. We cant even blitz in any sort of inventive way.

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    A little insight into Mingo's injury...

    Last edited by KJP; 08-06-2015 at 12:42 AM.
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    Just saw this Mingo out injured...again...

    #WEAK
    "The quarterback question lingers, but the Browns traded and traded and traded and traded and traded and acquired nine players and three high draft choices.

    It's tough to argue those results." Pat McManamon 5-3-16

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaydog View Post
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    Just saw this Mingo out injured...again...

    #WEAK
    Jay...come on...meniscus tears have nothing to do with being weak. But it is concerning that he has another injury.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



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    Reports are that he's going to be out 2-4 weeks. Unless he makes a great recovery in the last week or two of training camp, I suspect Mingo just lost his starting job.
    "Hillary Clinton belongs in the White House. Donald Trump belongs on my show."--Jerry Springer
    Cleveland Browns: 13 losing seasons in first 50 years. 15 losing seasons since 1999 -- and counting.

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    He's looking like just another in the ridiculously long line of top 10 pick busts for this team. Love the kid, but between his inability to stay on the field and his limited effectiveness at the job he was drafted to do (sack the QB) its getting close to calling it what it is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KJP View Post
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    Reports are that he's going to be out 2-4 weeks. Unless he makes a great recovery in the last week or two of training camp, I suspect Mingo just lost his starting job.
    Did he have a starting job TO lose?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Did he have a starting job TO lose?
    The term "starter" is a pretty blurred line in Pettine's defense. He uses a very high amount of substitution so even if you are not listed as the starter, you may end up with more plays. Mingo is/was definitely in the plans as he is the best coverage LB on the team...but as to your question, I don't think he is likely to be listed as the 'starter' at this point.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



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    ...enter Nate Orchard/Scott Solomon/Armonty Bryant.

    Of that group, Mingo included, who gets cut? They like 'em all.
    "The quarterback question lingers, but the Browns traded and traded and traded and traded and traded and acquired nine players and three high draft choices.

    It's tough to argue those results." Pat McManamon 5-3-16

  24. #48
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    A number 6 pick (and a number 8 for that matter) should be starting by any definition and beyond that making impact plays at their position.

    For Mingo, as much as we want to justify his coverage ability, it was to pressure the QB. We all know that so there's no need to debate it. He's failed in that regard and he's in his, what, third year now? We're making lemonade out of lemons now by adapting his skill set to get some usage, but its still a lemon.

    Gilbert.... same fear although its a bit earlier. The mystifying responses to press questions are a bit of a nagging red flag for me. I just don't know if that kid get's it.

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