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Thread: Linebackers!

  1. #49
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    But we are much thinner at the LB position so Gilbert's progression isn't as critical. He can return punts while learning the CB position.

    Mingo plays more like a safety...a huge safety when he does play.
    "The quarterback question lingers, but the Browns traded and traded and traded and traded and traded and acquired nine players and three high draft choices.

    It's tough to argue those results." Pat McManamon 5-3-16

  2. #50
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    Still not getting value from him or Gilbert.
    "The quarterback question lingers, but the Browns traded and traded and traded and traded and traded and acquired nine players and three high draft choices.

    It's tough to argue those results." Pat McManamon 5-3-16

  3. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaydog View Post
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    But we are much thinner at the LB position so Gilbert's progression isn't as critical. He can return punts while learning the CB position.

    Mingo plays more like a safety...a huge safety when he does play.
    Can't understand why the highly dense Pettine doesn't try Gilbert in the return game. He was tremendous at it in college! Its like Pettine has some morbid game going where he doesn't want the team to score many points deliberately!

  4. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    Pettine doesn't try Gilbert in the return game.
    Guess you missed it...he is fielding KO's and punts.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



  5. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgFan View Post
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    Guess you missed it...he is fielding KO's and punts.
    Excellent. I've been on the road traveling for the past two and a half weeks. Why weren't they doing this last year when the kid was struggling on defense and could have built his confidence returning kicks. Browns always seem t be a day late and a dollar short.
    Last edited by AttackOffense; 08-06-2015 at 11:08 AM.

  6. #54
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    Rappaport saying Mingo is only supposed to miss 2-4 weeks so that's encouraging.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    Rappaport saying Mingo is only supposed to miss 2-4 weeks so that's encouraging.
    Until Mingo's NEXT injury. Browns wise to draft Nate Orchard, a REAL football player.

  8. #56
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    At least Mingo's not out for the season. Say what you will, but he's a player I like to root for.
    BROWNS 2017: I'M JASON LA CANFORA'S INSIDER
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    "Hue and the guys are gonna turn that Frankenstein into a Frankenfine!" - next2nothing on RGIII

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!


  9. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    He's looking like just another in the ridiculously long line of top 10 pick busts for this team. Love the kid, but between his inability to stay on the field and his limited effectiveness at the job he was drafted to do (sack the QB) its getting close to calling it what it is.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Did he have a starting job TO lose?
    Way too soon to throw that fish back. If a high pick doesn't produce, I'd rather it be for injuries than outright bad or mediocre play. Mingo was a decent player last year despite having the nagging injury. He just wasn't a top-10 pick type of player.

    And yes, I figured him for a starter this year. I think it was his job to lose, with an injury being the most likely cause of him losing it.
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  10. #58
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    Fans get too caught up on what a player should be based on his draft position. Sure, ideally you want 1st rd picks (especially top 10) to be high impact, glory players. That is what everybody wants....but if a player can contribute in other ways...especially after a scheme change...then they are still a valuable player.

    If Mingo can be the best coverage LB in the NFL...in a league where TE's often are the worst matchup...then he is a valuable asset.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



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    I'm certainly not "Fans" Dawg (or at least my overinflated ego doesn't equate itself to that. ).

    My fundamental point is that Mingo wasn't drafted to be a coverage LB. That's not even debatable. He was drafted to be an impact edge rusher. A double digit sacks guy. A game changer. That's why you draft guys top 10.

    He's a sunk cost now so of course its water under the bridge going forward. Going forward the smart team finds a way to use what talent and abilities he does possess be it coverage or whatever. That still doesn't eliminate the "bust" label as you can find 2 or 1 down coverage LB's outside the top 10.

    He's looking like a miss for his draft position. Is what it is, but as AO and others point out on a regular basis, you can't keep missing on your first round picks. They need to be impact players more often than not. For us its been the reverse.

    Gilbert's in the same boat. You draft a CB top 10 to do what Joe Haden does: lock guys down. There's no other reason. If Gilbert turns into a "nice" player who can also return punts... he's a bust relative to his draft position. As with Mingo it would be water under the bridge since he's now a "sunk cost".

    I'm not losing sleep over it or gnashing teeth over what these guys can't or haven't yet been able to do. I do hope our first round picks going forward end up with a higher "impact" rate than what we've seen historically. Besides our lack of continuity its the single most glaring reason we've sucked in my mind.

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    I get that Grey...I do. I just refuse to use it as saying he can't be productive for the team...which some on here do.

    Couple things on Mingo...first, he wasn't drafted by this FO...so they will use him as they see fit. Second, Pettine stated last year he was put in the coverage role because he was the best at it...NOT because he couldn't rush the passer. Third...he had a severe shoulder injury.

    I agree that the meniscus tear is a setback, but he still very well may have a major impact (including sacks) this year. Wait and see.

    Gilbert? I don't know. McManamon is usually Debbie Downer and he seems to think that Desir starting was more due to what Desir was doing and less about what Gilbert is NOT doing. May mean that we got another draft steal in Desir, and Gilbert could be coming along just fine. I don't know. Hope so.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



  13. #61
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    What gets me is how this front office can find so many good undrafted free agents yet stink up the room with their high draft picks. I'm hoping this year is different with Shelton and Erving. Shelton's early dominant performance is what we should expect from a mid- to high-first round draft pick. But it just confuses the hell out of me how the personnel staff can be at polar opposites with their undrafteds vs. their first rounders. It's bass ackwards. If it wasn't and the Browns were sucking at finding free agents too, this team would be in serious trouble.
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  14. #62
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    Yup, I'm with you.

    Its just tough to look at the 2012-14 first rounds. We were blessed with five picks in those three years and somehow came away with:

    Richardson
    Weeden
    Mingo
    Gilbert
    Manziel

    The last three are still in a position to deliver, but sitting here right now, that's a pretty brutal track record.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KJP View Post
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    Way too soon to throw that fish back. If a high pick doesn't produce, I'd rather it be for injuries than outright bad or mediocre play. Mingo was a decent player last year despite having the nagging injury. He just wasn't a top-10 pick type of player.

    And yes, I figured him for a starter this year. I think it was his job to lose, with an injury being the most likely cause of him losing it.
    Mingo played decently if he was a fourth round pick. But as a first round pick he is a bust, a non-impact player who is always hurt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Yup, I'm with you.

    Its just tough to look at the 2012-14 first rounds. We were blessed with five picks in those three years and somehow came away with:

    Richardson
    Weeden
    Mingo
    Gilbert
    Manziel

    The last three are still in a position to deliver, but sitting here right now, that's a pretty brutal track record.
    The Donald Trump no-nonsense phrase for it is: "Total Disaster."

  16. #64
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    From what I have seen Gilbert is only doing KO returns, and NOT punt returns. Q&A with Gilbert in the ESPN blog

    Q: Do punt returns interest you at all?

    JG: No. No punt returns.

    Q: Why not?

    JG: I just don’t really do punt returns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KJP View Post
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    What gets me is how this front office can find so many good undrafted free agents yet stink up the room with their high draft picks. I'm hoping this year is different with Shelton and Erving. Shelton's early dominant performance is what we should expect from a mid- to high-first round draft pick. But it just confuses the hell out of me how the personnel staff can be at polar opposites with their undrafteds vs. their first rounders. It's bass ackwards. If it wasn't and the Browns were sucking at finding free agents too, this team would be in serious trouble.
    It's really like hitting the lotto odds that they miss on so many 1st rd picks and hit on so many UDFA's. ::
    "The quarterback question lingers, but the Browns traded and traded and traded and traded and traded and acquired nine players and three high draft choices.

    It's tough to argue those results." Pat McManamon 5-3-16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Masters View Post
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    From what I have seen Gilbert is only doing KO returns, and NOT punt returns. Q&A with Gilbert in the ESPN blog

    Q: Do punt returns interest you at all?

    JG: No. No punt returns.

    Q: Why not?

    JG: I just don’t really do punt returns.
    There you go. This input provides real insight about why spoiled brat Gilbert is having trouble vs. a guy like Desir who comes home and see his young kids every night and will do everything he can to help the team and earn a living to support his family.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    There you go. This input provides real insight about why spoiled brat Gilbert is having trouble vs. a guy like Desir who comes home and see his young kids every night and will do everything he can to help the team and earn a living to support his family.
    No...it sounds like a socially awkward guy that just doesn't know how to communicate. It adds up with the learning issues that were commented on last year. To me, it sounds like he is saying "no, they are not having me do punt returns because I never did them in college"...not "no, I refuse to do them".
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



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    Quote Originally Posted by jaydog View Post
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    ...enter Nate Orchard/Scott Solomon/Armonty Bryant.

    Of that group, Mingo included, who gets cut? They like 'em all.
    No one. I think we roll 5 OLB's. At least that's what they'll be listed as on paper. We saw our lack of depth on the edge last season. Can't let that happen again.

    If anything, it's probably the DL or DB's that take a hit. We're not terribly deep at ILB either. Pretty much will have four guys there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twizbuck View Post
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    No one. I think we roll 5 OLB's. At least that's what they'll be listed as on paper. We saw our lack of depth on the edge last season. Can't let that happen again.

    If anything, it's probably the DL or DB's that take a hit. We're not terribly deep at ILB either. Pretty much will have four guys there.
    It 's so refreshing that we 'll have a lot of tough cuts.
    Certainly more than ever before.

    Cheers,

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    Quote Originally Posted by CroBrownsBall View Post
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    It 's so refreshing that we 'll have a lot of tough cuts.
    Certainly more than ever before.

    Cheers,

    Ziggy
    Good point and the depth on defense is excellent.

  23. #71
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    okay, okay, okay...

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    Mingo on track to be active for the opener, which is a very good thing. Somewhat surprisingly, Hayes Pullard has played himself into a close competition with Carder to make the roster. I'm personally not that surprised because he had a helluva career here and I thought he would go more like round 4.

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