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Thread: The Danny Shelton man-crush thread

  1. #49
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    Mack, Greco and Bitonio will be ready. Danny was giving them all they could handle in practice.
    "The quarterback question lingers, but the Browns traded and traded and traded and traded and traded and acquired nine players and three high draft choices.

    It's tough to argue those results." Pat McManamon 5-3-16

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    I think as a fan of the Browns I'll risk being confident about Thomas' ability to deal with Williams. Sheesh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    I think as a fan of the Browns I'll risk being confident about Thomas' ability to deal with Williams. Sheesh.
    You obviously don't know that Williams is already in the HoF and will probably rack up 20 some sacks his first year Grey.
    In the words of Tony Rizzo... "FIND ME A FREAKING QUARTERBACK!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by next2nothing View Post
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    You obviously don't know that Williams is already in the HoF and will probably rack up 20 some sacks his first year Grey.
    And Thomas is overrated, because PFF said he's ornery cuz he got all dem teef an' no toofbrush.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    Looking forward to HULK SMASH!

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    Underwhelming first game for DS. 1 solo tackle and 1 assisted tackle in his Browns debut.

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    Mangold is the real deal and I noticed, at least on a few plays, that he was getting doubled. Still, there wasn't much disruption starting with their last drive of the 1st half and beyond.

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    Yeah Mangold is a beast

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    If it's your first NFL game and you're drawing double-teams including one of the game's top centers, that should be a huge sign.

    The problem is the rest of the defense didn't take advantage of this. If you're dedicating two to stopping one, then there should be someone who is open to get through. They need to figure that out and take advantage if/when it happens again.
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    I thought he did alright. He can't be held responsible for others standing around and not tackling.

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    It's been said D line takes longer than any other position to peak-out. Let's hope Shelton is the exception to the Browns-1st-round-bust rule, and is simply following a typical D lineman maturation process:


    Last edited by OconRecon; 11-16-2015 at 12:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    It's been said D line takes longer than any other position to peak-out. Let's hope Shelton is the exception to the Browns-1st-round-bust rule, and is simply following a typical D lineman maturation:


    I graded out Shelton and Orchard pretty high going in to the NFL draft. Cooper good,at a second tier level. I'm still hopeful for these guys. Shelton will not be a total bust like weakling Mingo. Gaines had some tough moments yesterday but I think he can be good over time, too. Same with campbell. The biggest problem with the Browns may be the coaching, not the talent.
    Last edited by AttackOffense; 11-16-2015 at 12:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twizbuck View Post
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    And Thomas is overrated, because PFF said he's ornery cuz he got all dem teef an' no toofbrush.
    Joe Thomas is not that good as a run blocker. Only three teams -- KC, Miami and Jacksonville -- run in the direction of LT less. Browns run behind Thomas only 8% of the time. Compare that with: Cincinnati, 18%: Dallas, 17%, Pittsburgh 15%.

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    We really aren't in "fire all the players" mode on D.

    Iffo, Campbell, Gaines, and even still Desir are all various works in process.

    K'Waun's tackling yesterday was nothing short of phenomenal. He wraps better than any Browns player has in years.

    We need a DE and an LB on D. Mingo is an okay SAM and Captain Kirk is decent, young, and still waiting for the game to completely slow down for him. He's smart and a leader. Deserves more time.

    Most importantly, as bright-eyed and likable as O'Neil is, he has to go. A "distant 32nd" in defense just doesn't allow you to keep your job. It just doesn't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    We really aren't in "fire all the players" mode on D.

    Iffo, Campbell, Gaines, and even still Desir are all various works in process.

    K'Waun's tackling yesterday was nothing short of phenomenal. He wraps better than any Browns player has in years.

    We need a DE and an LB on D. Mingo is an okay SAM and Captain Kirk is decent, young, and still waiting for the game to completely slow down for him. He's smart and a leader. Deserves more time.

    Most importantly, as bright-eyed and likable as O'Neil is, he has to go. A "distant 32nd" in defense just doesn't allow you to keep your job. It just doesn't.
    These players aren't that bad. It is coaching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    We really aren't in "fire all the players" mode on D.

    Iffo, Campbell, Gaines, and even still Desir are all various works in process.

    K'Waun's tackling yesterday was nothing short of phenomenal. He wraps better than any Browns player has in years.

    We need a DE and an LB on D. Mingo is an okay SAM and Captain Kirk is decent, young, and still waiting for the game to completely slow down for him. He's smart and a leader. Deserves more time.

    Most importantly, as bright-eyed and likable as O'Neil is, he has to go. A "distant 32nd" in defense just doesn't allow you to keep your job. It just doesn't.
    I don't know that its fire all the players mode either, but its pretty clear we're lacking impact guys in the front seven. The young guys you listed are all unproven so its hard to determine what we have there. It could be just some development time or they may just not be that good. Gaines was atrocious for example. He's green as hell. Does he have the ability and just needs experience or is he just not going to make it at this level?

    Mingo's just not okay at anything in my book. I think he's a bust, certainly for his draft status, and maybe over all. One thing for sure: he is not a plug and play guy. If he has any chance at being effective its going to take a lot of scheming. We need an OLB who's just good no matter where he's plugged in. Mingo ain't that in my view.

    All that said the secondary has been a hot mess of injury all year. Its really hard to know how good they would have been with Haden, Williams, Whitner, Gibson, and Kwaun at the nickel. I wonder if we've even had one snap with that fivesome playing together this year?

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    I will say when Shelton has been on the field the last 2 games, he has looked MUCH better. Hes made a few great plays.

    He just needs to be on the field more. I feel like hes getting like 3 snaps a series

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    I don't know that its fire all the players mode either, but its pretty clear we're lacking impact guys in the front seven. The young guys you listed are all unproven so its hard to determine what we have there. It could be just some development time or they may just not be that good. Gaines was atrocious for example. He's green as hell. Does he have the ability and just needs experience or is he just not going to make it at this level?

    Mingo's just not okay at anything in my book. I think he's a bust, certainly for his draft status, and maybe over all. One thing for sure: he is not a plug and play guy. If he has any chance at being effective its going to take a lot of scheming. We need an OLB who's just good no matter where he's plugged in. Mingo ain't that in my view.

    All that said the secondary has been a hot mess of injury all year. Its really hard to know how good they would have been with Haden, Williams, Whitner, Gibson, and Kwaun at the nickel. I wonder if we've even had one snap with that fivesome playing together this year?
    Always the excuses for the Browns. New England plays with two rookies, a normal practice squad guy and other young players on its OL and still blocks about 10xs better than Joe Thomas and the Browns. Teams make adjustments and players make adjustments. pettine and his staff are clueless.

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    Yup, New England's a fair comparison for any franchise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Yup, New England's a fair comparison for any franchise.
    Yes, because they are the benchmark.

    [bench-mahrk]
    noun
    1. a standard of excellence, achievement, etc., against which similar things must be measured or judged:
    The new hotel is a benchmark in opulence and comfort.
    2. any standard or reference by which others can be measured or judged:
    The current price for crude oil may become the benchmark.
    3. Computers. an established point of reference against which computers or programs can be measured in tests comparing their performance, reliability, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    I graded out Shelton and Orchard pretty high going in to the NFL draft. Cooper good,at a second tier level. I'm still hopeful for these guys. Shelton will not be a total bust like weakling Mingo. Gaines had some tough moments yesterday but I think he can be good over time, too. Same with campbell. The biggest problem with the Browns may be the coaching, not the talent.
    I was certainly high on Shelton and I still am.

    Orchard... not so much. I didn't like the trade up to get Orchard and I still don't. He's been somewhat (surprisingly) steady and solid as a rookie, but nothing spectacular.

    After the 2014 season, I posted indisputable evidence that anyone below 255 pounds is not a sack machine, aside from the very rare talent. Rare talent like Khalil Mack who is currently tied with 4 others at 20th in sacks at 250 lbs. Another tied at 20th is Von Miller, who is currently listed at 250 lbs, but was listed at 255lbs in 2014. From top 5 to top 20. Coincidence? In 2014, the 41st sack leader was the first player under 255 lbs. Some dude from Cincy. I can't even remember his name.

    It takes POWER (i.e not speed, but better yet power AND speed) to be a sack machine in today's NFL. Orchard is listed at 255 lbs, but the biggest knock against his game is his lack of power moves. No bull rush, no rip, and no swim move. Despite his college production, he will not be a force against the QB until he develops some power moves.

    -Al

    P.S. Vic "The Bust" Beasley has 2.0 sacks through 9 games. Another pure speed Mingo/Wimbley clone...

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    Orchard is also slow.

    I really hated that pick.

    I loved the Xavier Cooper pick.. but I'm blown away. How can a guy with as much physical talent as Cooper find himself constantly out of position.


    It was his biggest knock in college.. and it's looking ugly for him out there. Cooper clearly has the size power and speed.. He's a monster.. but he looks like an idiot.

    As I said before though. Shelton is improving each week. By the end of the season we will see why we drafted him I'm sure.

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    Orchard is also slow.

    I really hated that pick.

    I loved the Xavier Cooper pick.. but I'm blown away. How can a guy with as much physical talent as Cooper find himself constantly out of position.


    It was his biggest knock in college.. and it's looking ugly for him out there. Cooper clearly has the size power and speed.. He's a monster.. but he looks like an idiot.

    As I said before though. Shelton is improving each week. By the end of the season we will see why we drafted him I'm sure.
    I liked the Cooper pick, as well. I called him a poor man's John Randle. That's what he is and that's what he does. He's a penetrating Undertackle. Maybe, that's why he dropped so far. He has what it takes everywhere except "upstairs." I don't expect miracles from rookies. I give them the benefit of the doubt, but sooner rather than later, it suddenly must start to make sense.



    -Al

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    Last edited by OconRecon; 11-09-2016 at 11:44 AM.
    2017 Draft class: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 Draft picks: Extra picks - a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), & a 6th (Steelers/Gilbert) - 12 total
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)
    OTA's: 5/23-25, 5/30-31, 6/1, 6/5-8, Veteran MiniCamp: 6/13-15

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