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Thread: The 2016 Draft

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonh8806 View Post
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    A big play making tight end would be such a great thing for Manziel. A big guy for Manziel to throw the ball up to in the end zone and a security blanket in tough situations when the pocket breaks down. It boggles my mind that Dray is still on the roster... he can't catch anything.

    Fleener would be a decent option. I've only seen Martellus play a few times but he always seems to have a bad attitude, maybe that's b/c he's playing for the Bears with Cutler? lol
    Call me crazy, but I actually like Dwayne Allen more than Fleener. He'd be cheaper, and he's really flashed when he's had the opportunity. It's a hard task to be drafted the round after your franchise quarterback lands his college tight end in the second round, but he's really built up. Last season he only had 400 yards, but he quietly had 8 touchdowns and 24 of his 29 receptions went for first downs. I really think he could explode.

    You're actually not wrong mentioning Cutler - he and Bennett do not get along one bit. Not that anyone likes Cutler, but there has been a lot of tension there. He's been in a difficult situation given the Bears had Marshall and Jeffery, and have now added Kevin White. Two pro-bowl wide receivers, plus Matt Forte, and he still put up 1,500 yards and 11 touchdowns over the past two seasons with Cutler playing off and injured more often than not. He's got a healthy track record, and I think he could make a big difference. Big motherfucker, too. 6'6" and 275, but he moves like he's a lot smaller. I think Johnny would have a lot of fun with him. Who knows, though, I'm just spitballing. There is every chance they're not interested in trading him, especially if they end up in range of a new QB they really like.

    I had a quick look at some of the rookie prospects, too. Didn't watch anything, but I see a lot of big guys touted for their athletic ability. Like PGL has said recently, we're really missing Jordan Cameron, so it'd be nice to try and catch up at TE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay View Post
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    If Manziel is a blue chip franchise juggernaut, he will elevate this team and make them all play better than we can conceive ....as is.

    Don't build more excuses for the kid before he actually fails, you play him this season, you have a damned good idea of what you've got, and you move forward accordingly.
    What?

    Who is saying this kid is anything close to that right now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    Bingo. It's time for the training wheels to come off.
    And that's the problem I think.

    I think manziel went rogue on his deep attempts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by threesheets View Post
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    This organization can't be trusted with young QBs - so no to drafting another with the current regime. Get some non QB difference makers on both sides of the ball - then worry about QB. At that point either Manziel or Davis may have a good enough team to play with and win. If not, you have a good enough team to attract a good vet QB, not the garbage we've been served the last two years. Who knows, maybe future draftees won't have to put out word that they don't want us to pick them.
    We don't know if JM is a franchise QB. I do think we will know by the end of the season. IF HE'S NOT, this is a QB rich draft class, Browns should be in draft position to get one. I think Jared Goff is the best QB since Andrew Luck, you have to get him by any means necessary.

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    Pathetic.

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    What is Mike Pettine?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoatShoes View Post
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    Who is saying this kid is anything close to that right now?
    I should have been more specific and said prospect? He either is or he isn't.

    I can't stand it when a player whines to me or his teammates or his wife or the writers or anyone else.
    A whiner is almost always wrong. A winner never whines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoatShoes View Post
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    BDU,

    I explained my reasoning for departing with Thomas.

    Again...

    I believe he's in decline; 2-3 years down the road I don't think he's going to be the guy he is this year (which many over rate)(and we're not competing this year/probably not next)

    Because of who he is-he is the leader. And that isn't working.

    The only reason Mack stays at this point is we don't want him to.

    And on Firin-the-coaches/this is about the philosophy of pet-it's old, predictable, low ceiling. And it's terrible for a manziel-in every way imaginable.

    And quite frankly, I wouldn't trust pet with a first round QB under any circumstances.
    Joe Thomas...bless his heart...is not a difference maker. I have no problem with his playing out the string in Cleveland but also realize that when the end comes for a left tackle the decline is usually sudden and painful to watch. One day Orlando Pace was pancaking everyone in sight, the next day he couldn't get in front of a slow moving motorized scooter.

    If there is a market for Joe by all means field offers. Losing Joe Thomas will have next to no effect on the teams record and he might be turned into a piece for the future. NFL trades are not like NBA or MLB trades however, your probably not going to fetch anything eye-opening. This is why my eyes glaze over whenever someone starts talking trade in the NFL. If its not a franchise QB (that never get traded anyway), your talking mid round draft picks...nothing special.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoatShoes View Post
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    And that's the problem I think.

    I think manziel went rogue on his deep attempts.
    Last night, I saw Rogers do the same thing Johnny did on that roll out late in the Jets game on the pass to Benjamin. It was basically the same result for Rogers!

    Manziel is not the right kind of QB for a puckered up tight head coach like Pettine. Why did they draft him for Cleveland??? That's part of what is going on here.
    Last edited by AttackOffense; 09-29-2015 at 09:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brutalfacts View Post
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    Joe Thomas...bless his heart...is not a difference maker. I have no problem with his playing out the string in Cleveland but also realize that when the end comes for a left tackle the decline is usually sudden and painful to watch. One day Orlando Pace was pancaking everyone in sight, the next day he couldn't get in front of a slow moving motorized scooter.

    If there is a market for Joe by all means field offers. Losing Joe Thomas will have next to no effect on the teams record and he might be turned into a piece for the future. NFL trades are not like NBA or MLB trades however, your probably not going to fetch anything eye-opening. This is why my eyes glaze over whenever someone starts talking trade in the NFL. If its not a franchise QB (that never get traded anyway), your talking mid round draft picks...nothing special.
    This is what I was trying to say about Thomas before BDU went all ballistic on me. I have a great deal of respect for Thomas who deserves to be admitted to the Hall of Fame someday. While he continues to provide the Browns with solid play, he is not the kind of difference maker anymore a Hall of Fame caliber LT should be. I remember in the past how some of the great LTs of all time made their presence on the field known in such meaningful and positive ways. I don't see that difference making anymore with Thomas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    Last night, I saw Rogers do the same thing Johnny did on that roll out late in the Jets game on the pass to Benjamin. It was basically the same result for Rogers!

    Manziel is not the right kind of QB for a puckered up tight head coach like Pettine. Why did they draft him for Cleveland??? That's part of what is going on here.
    I was thinking the same thing watching Rodgers. If Manziel can continue to improvise and cut down on mistakes then he could be a sure fire franchise QB. They need to open the play book, realize that we just aren't a ground and pound team and let him improvise.
    #WeBarkTogether
    #Believeland

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    This is what I was trying to say about Thomas before BDU went all ballistic on me. I have a great deal of respect for Thomas who deserves to be admitted to the Hall of Fame someday. While he continues to provide the Browns with solid play, he is not the kind of difference maker anymore a Hall of Fame caliber LT should be. I remember in the past how some of the great LTs of all time made their presence on the field known in such meaningful and positive ways. I don't see that difference making anymore with Thomas.
    Walk it back bro, walk it back.

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    Back on the topic of the 2016 draft. Who are some of your favorite prospects, regardless of position?
    #WeBarkTogether
    #Believeland

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Walk it back bro, walk it back.
    Walk what back? I said Thomas was overrated, now a good player but not a great player anymore, and your fellow hate buddy went nuts. It appears a lot of people agree with me, not only on this board but at cleveland.com as well. A Hall of Fame caliber tackle is a difference maker. Joe Thomas has not been that this year, although still a solid contributor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonh8806 View Post
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    Back on the topic of the 2016 draft. Who are some of your favorite prospects, regardless of position?
    Treadwell, the receiver at Mississippi, looks good. I like QB Goff. There's a linebacker for Duke, can't remember his name, who is all over the field - the kind of intense, hard hitting, playmaking LB the Browns need to solidify that run ndefense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Walk it back bro, walk it back.
    He can preferably take my balls out of his mouth, too. Even on ignore, I remain the hot topic, and he remains wrong.

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    Ahh Grossi. He's a miserable sumbitch.


    2017 Draft class: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 Draft picks: Extra picks - a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), & a 6th (Steelers/Gilbert) - 12 total
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)
    Training Camp schedule: Rookies report 7/23, vets 7/26, 1st practice 7/27

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    Okay. So here is my opinion:

    1st Round (QB, WR, DE): (QB) Jared Goff, (WR) Laquon Treadwell (DE) Joey Bosa.

    Jared Goff: I am one of the few that like Manziel, but looking at game footage and stats, Goff should be able to easily make the transition to the NFL. Goff has a 69.2 PCT, 1240 yds, 11 TDs, 3 INT, and a passer rating of 170.3. On top of that, his Offensive Line ranks something like 119th in time allowed in the pocket. Which is awful. Yet Goff continues to make accurate, smart throws.

    Laquon Treadwell: There really isn't much that needs said about this guy. He plays like Dez Bryant without the off field issues and attitude problems. I would almost guarantee that if a WR wins ROTY it's going to be this guy.

    Joey Bosa: The guy has been compared to J.J. Watt quite a few times but I personally don't think he is going to live up to that sort of hype. He will still be an absolute monster, but those are some big shoes to fill.

    1st Round Pick - Goff. [Other options: (RB) Ezekiel Elliot , (WR) Tyler Boyd, (OLB) Jaylon Smith]

    Assuming Goff is drafted...

    Round 2 (WR, DE, RB): (WR) Travin Dural, (DE) Chris Jones, (RB) Derrick Henry

    I won't go into much detail about these guys, but Dural is 6'2 and runs a 4.52. He has long arms, big hands, and is versatile. He plays all over the field for LSU. I'd compare him to Jordan Matthews of the Eagles. He's a guy that can play on the outsides, but he might actually be best used as mismatch in the slot. And Pettine/Farmer love versatility in their players. (I actually wouldn't mind drafting both Treadwell and Dural. All of a sudden our WR group would be Gordon and Treadwell on the outsides with Dural in the slot.

    Derrick Henry is a real replacement for Crow. Zeke is the better all around back, especially when it comes to his outstanding blocking. But Henry is still an absolute monster. 6'3 242 lbs and runs a 4.54. He is an athletic freak. A man that size shouldn't be running 4.54. He can break tackles, has good vision, and should be a monster at the goal line. My only concern with him would be that he did fracture his leg in 2013, but really hasn't had any injury issues since that I can recall. Right now he is going early 2nd round in a lot of mocks, but I highly doubt he stays there as the season goes on. If he IS there in the 2nd round, it would be hard for me to pass on him.

    2nd Round pick - Travin Dural (Since I doubt Henry will actually be there).

    That's all I have time for right now, but Goff/Dural - Treadwell/Dural - Treadwell/Henry - Bosa/Dural seem like the combinations I'd be looking at. The way I see it, Goff is the only QB I'd target in the first round. And if we get a QB we absolutely need a WR for him to throw to other than Gordon. If we stick with Manziel then Treadwell is most definitely the way I'd go.

    Honestly though, if the Browns have a top 5 pick but want to stick with Manziel, I could definitely see them trading down yet again. Which I wouldn't mind so much as long as we still get a WR with our new 1st or our 2nd round pick. If we traded down and drafted Zeke/Dural that would be cool with me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoatShoes View Post
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    We need to put Manziel in a position of leadership/that will never happen with Thomas and Pet here.

    The Pet-Thomas leadership model has failed up to this point.
    Here's another thing that is happening that is related to this and involves the front office. I'll preface this by saying I don't get attached to administrative personnel (GM, coach, etc.). They mostly are very replaceable and I can't recall anyone let go over the last 15 years that has made us regret letting them go. The largest issue with turnover is continuity in that young players can be set back for a bit when having to learn new coaching schemes.

    At this point, the team is in a freefall going back to last year (2-8 W/L). Pettine has been given everything he desires - pick of his coaching staff, an emphasis on defense in talent acquisition both in the draft and FA (both #1 picks were defense), emphasis on veteran/older players. He has absolute power in who plays on any given Sunday. The results are that the team is regressing - especially on the defensive side of the ball which is supposed to be his strong suit. The offense is also a mess.

    This brings me to Ray Farmer. If the team's play continues on this trend, Pettine deserves to be fired at the end of the year. But what to do with Farmer? I think Pettine's refusal to play Manziel could actually save Farmer's job because how can you terminate a GM for poor drafting when his biggest chips never saw the field? Really, how bad would Haslam look if he fires Farmer and Manziel goes on to be a star in the league - here or elsewhere?

    The same goes for Gilbert. Even though I believe they reached in picking him because the coach just had to have another CB, he was still very highly rated going into the draft. When I see young talented players that get zero playing time going on two years now, I start thinking the coaching staff doesn't know how to use them properly. How much do you want to bet that somebody like Belichik would gladly take him off our hands and somehow make him useful? He's doing it with Sheard right now (high 2nd rounder for the Browns).

    Kosar keeps harping on the culture at the top of the organization but does not go into detail what exactly that means and who it involves. I have no idea on that one way or another. What I do see is this clique culture on the team with guys like Thomas running interference for the coaching staff and he has no clue he has hooked his wagon to a loser.

    Regardless, it is pathetic that a LT is the so called leader of the team. All other NFL teams - when drafting a possible FQB in the 1st round, get behind them as their current and future leader and let nature take its cours - for good or bad. Farmer acquired one in the draft. Pettine's actions have done nothing but minimize his importance to the organization and this is by design as his philosophy is to minimize the QB position. In that vacuum, somebody else will become the focal point. It is possible that JT is just stepping into the void that Pettine has created and may go back to being normal again with a proper HC in charge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDonziel View Post
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    Okay. So here is my opinion:

    1st Round (QB, WR, DE): (QB) Jared Goff, (WR) Laquon Treadwell (DE) Joey Bosa.

    Jared Goff: I am one of the few that like Manziel, but looking at game footage and stats, Goff should be able to easily make the transition to the NFL. Goff has a 69.2 PCT, 1240 yds, 11 TDs, 3 INT, and a passer rating of 170.3. On top of that, his Offensive Line ranks something like 119th in time allowed in the pocket. Which is awful. Yet Goff continues to make accurate, smart throws.

    Laquon Treadwell: There really isn't much that needs said about this guy. He plays like Dez Bryant without the off field issues and attitude problems. I would almost guarantee that if a WR wins ROTY it's going to be this guy.

    Joey Bosa: The guy has been compared to J.J. Watt quite a few times but I personally don't think he is going to live up to that sort of hype. He will still be an absolute monster, but those are some big shoes to fill.

    1st Round Pick - Goff. [Other options: (RB) Ezekiel Elliot , (WR) Tyler Boyd, (OLB) Jaylon Smith]

    Assuming Goff is drafted...

    Round 2 (WR, DE, RB): (WR) Travin Dural, (DE) Chris Jones, (RB) Derrick Henry

    I won't go into much detail about these guys, but Dural is 6'2 and runs a 4.52. He has long arms, big hands, and is versatile. He plays all over the field for LSU. I'd compare him to Jordan Matthews of the Eagles. He's a guy that can play on the outsides, but he might actually be best used as mismatch in the slot. And Pettine/Farmer love versatility in their players. (I actually wouldn't mind drafting both Treadwell and Dural. All of a sudden our WR group would be Gordon and Treadwell on the outsides with Dural in the slot.

    Derrick Henry is a real replacement for Crow. Zeke is the better all around back, especially when it comes to his outstanding blocking. But Henry is still an absolute monster. 6'3 242 lbs and runs a 4.54. He is an athletic freak. A man that size shouldn't be running 4.54. He can break tackles, has good vision, and should be a monster at the goal line. My only concern with him would be that he did fracture his leg in 2013, but really hasn't had any injury issues since that I can recall. Right now he is going early 2nd round in a lot of mocks, but I highly doubt he stays there as the season goes on. If he IS there in the 2nd round, it would be hard for me to pass on him.

    2nd Round pick - Travin Dural (Since I doubt Henry will actually be there).

    That's all I have time for right now, but Goff/Dural - Treadwell/Dural - Treadwell/Henry - Bosa/Dural seem like the combinations I'd be looking at. The way I see it, Goff is the only QB I'd target in the first round. And if we get a QB we absolutely need a WR for him to throw to other than Gordon. If we stick with Manziel then Treadwell is most definitely the way I'd go.

    Honestly though, if the Browns have a top 5 pick but want to stick with Manziel, I could definitely see them trading down yet again. Which I wouldn't mind so much as long as we still get a WR with our new 1st or our 2nd round pick. If we traded down and drafted Zeke/Dural that would be cool with me.
    Good stuff. But I think we need to draft a LB pretty high. Take a look at the LB kid from Duke. He wowed me last weekend.

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    Now Pettine and JT are in cahoots?

    I've read it all lol.
    BROWNS 2017: ANALYTICS, IT'S NOT JUST SOMETHING YOU TRY IN THE BEDROOM ANYMORE!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!

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    Its like an insane asylum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    Now Pettine and JT are in cahoots?

    I've read it all lol.
    Things are very dark in Browns land right now. That means they'll probably win on Sunday!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DonnieDonziel View Post
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    Okay. So here is my opinion:

    1st Round (QB, WR, DE): (QB) Jared Goff, (WR) Laquon Treadwell (DE) Joey Bosa.

    Jared Goff: I am one of the few that like Manziel, but looking at game footage and stats, Goff should be able to easily make the transition to the NFL. Goff has a 69.2 PCT, 1240 yds, 11 TDs, 3 INT, and a passer rating of 170.3. On top of that, his Offensive Line ranks something like 119th in time allowed in the pocket. Which is awful. Yet Goff continues to make accurate, smart throws.

    Laquon Treadwell: There really isn't much that needs said about this guy. He plays like Dez Bryant without the off field issues and attitude problems. I would almost guarantee that if a WR wins ROTY it's going to be this guy.

    Joey Bosa: The guy has been compared to J.J. Watt quite a few times but I personally don't think he is going to live up to that sort of hype. He will still be an absolute monster, but those are some big shoes to fill.

    1st Round Pick - Goff. [Other options: (RB) Ezekiel Elliot , (WR) Tyler Boyd, (OLB) Jaylon Smith]

    Assuming Goff is drafted...

    Round 2 (WR, DE, RB): (WR) Travin Dural, (DE) Chris Jones, (RB) Derrick Henry

    I won't go into much detail about these guys, but Dural is 6'2 and runs a 4.52. He has long arms, big hands, and is versatile. He plays all over the field for LSU. I'd compare him to Jordan Matthews of the Eagles. He's a guy that can play on the outsides, but he might actually be best used as mismatch in the slot. And Pettine/Farmer love versatility in their players. (I actually wouldn't mind drafting both Treadwell and Dural. All of a sudden our WR group would be Gordon and Treadwell on the outsides with Dural in the slot.

    Derrick Henry is a real replacement for Crow. Zeke is the better all around back, especially when it comes to his outstanding blocking. But Henry is still an absolute monster. 6'3 242 lbs and runs a 4.54. He is an athletic freak. A man that size shouldn't be running 4.54. He can break tackles, has good vision, and should be a monster at the goal line. My only concern with him would be that he did fracture his leg in 2013, but really hasn't had any injury issues since that I can recall. Right now he is going early 2nd round in a lot of mocks, but I highly doubt he stays there as the season goes on. If he IS there in the 2nd round, it would be hard for me to pass on him.

    2nd Round pick - Travin Dural (Since I doubt Henry will actually be there).

    That's all I have time for right now, but Goff/Dural - Treadwell/Dural - Treadwell/Henry - Bosa/Dural seem like the combinations I'd be looking at. The way I see it, Goff is the only QB I'd target in the first round. And if we get a QB we absolutely need a WR for him to throw to other than Gordon. If we stick with Manziel then Treadwell is most definitely the way I'd go.

    Honestly though, if the Browns have a top 5 pick but want to stick with Manziel, I could definitely see them trading down yet again. Which I wouldn't mind so much as long as we still get a WR with our new 1st or our 2nd round pick. If we traded down and drafted Zeke/Dural that would be cool with me.
    Outstanding DD, look if JM does not prove he is the QBF, it's a no-brainer, Goff! If the front office thinks JM is the QB going forward, Treadwell. The first two picks should be on play-makers. Elliot or Henry probably won't be there in the second round, but I still go with RB or WR. I'm not counting of Gordon to be on the team next season. LB in third round.

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