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Thread: The 2016 Draft

  1. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    Yes but 1) we have Manziel, 2) drafting a WR in the 1st round is the antithesis of Farmers philosophy. I would be shocked if it happens.

    Gilbert, a CB, Shelton a DT. Neither are get-after-the-QB pass rushers...
    We don't know if Manziel will even be on the team next year. And Mingo was drafted 6th, to be the pass rusher, plus Kruger was signed as a FA because of his pass rushing skill. Add Armonty Bryant and Orchard, both are supposed to be pass rushers. I'm with AO on this one, Browns need offensive play-makers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambler View Post
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    We don't know if Manziel will even be on the team next year. And Mingo was drafted 6th, to be the pass rusher, plus Kruger was signed as a FA because of his pass rushing skill. Add Armonty Bryant and Orchard, both are supposed to be pass rushers. I'm with AO on this one, Browns need offensive play-makers.
    It's a fair point, but IMO it would be foolish to give up on a 22-23 year old QB who has barely been tested. I would be really furious for this franchise to piss away yet ANOTHER first round QB pick.

    Mingo, as has been argued time and again, has not fulfilled that role so thus it is not requisite. He's a coverage OLB. Kruger has not been as advertised. Bryant a 7th round pick. Now Orchard, he is curious. Can he grow in to the role? Hopefully better than Mingo. As it stands this team has zero credible pass rushers. Bryant has 3.5 sacks through 6 games, he is 1/3 of our pass rush. Our pass rush is pathetic. Easily the weakest aspect of this team right now...

    Again, I don't disagree that we need play makers, I'm simply making my argument on the foundation that Ray Farmer has repeatedly and emphatically downplayed the importance of WR's and thus I see us drafting a pass-rush threat over a WR.
    BROWNS 2017: TIME TO SHIT THE BED IN ANOTHER DRAFT, YAY!
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

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    1. DE
    2. WR
    3. RB

    The position I see no one talking about. Crow is average at best. I am sorry but he just isn't going to cut it as a lead back. Turbin is a lifer backup, a good one but again not the lead man. Duke is a specialist and an injury waiting to happen.

    There are some great RB's coming out in this draft that would be worth taking in the first or second round.

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    If we draft another QB without upgrading the WR, RB, TE (maybe) postions and figuring out what's wrong with this talented O-line then we are just setting ourselves up for another "bust". Bust meaning we ruin another QB in this shitshow franchise because we toss them into the fire and expect them to fix things.

    Let's fix the run game and defense first is what I am getting at.

    I apologize to all the positive people, I can't be positive when losing has become the culture of my beloved Browns

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    Still haven't seen Erving play. If he can't break in as a guard now, and Mack leaves, then what?

    Were back to taking another interior lineman relatively high because he'll need to start alongside Erving who will be in his 1st season as a starter.
    "The quarterback question lingers, but the Browns traded and traded and traded and traded and traded and acquired nine players and three high draft choices.

    It's tough to argue those results." Pat McManamon 5-3-16

  6. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Browns next QB View Post
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    If we draft another QB without upgrading the WR, RB, TE (maybe) postions and figuring out what's wrong with this talented O-line then we are just setting ourselves up for another "bust". Bust meaning we ruin another QB in this shitshow franchise because we toss them into the fire and expect them to fix things.

    Let's fix the run game and defense first is what I am getting at.

    I apologize to all the positive people, I can't be positive when losing has become the culture of my beloved Browns
    This year's draft is a good one for QB s, there are 5 or 6 guys with the potential to be franchise QB s. You have to strike while the iron is hot. Can't keep waiting until next year to grab one. The time is now. Take a receiver in the 2nd or 3rd rd. Then draft your defensive needs. I'm sick of drafting defense first. (mingo, gilbert, shelton) and not seeing an impact. Offense the first two rounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambler View Post
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    This year's draft is a good one for QB s, there are 5 or 6 guys with the potential to be franchise QB s. You have to strike while the iron is hot. Can't keep waiting until next year to grab one. The time is now. Take a receiver in the 2nd or 3rd rd. Then draft your defensive needs. I'm sick of drafting defense first. (mingo, gilbert, shelton) and not seeing an impact. Offense the first two rounds.
    Is there an Andrew Luck in this years class? No? Then hold off on the QB position unless we have a killer free agency (which we won't). There may be a great QB when put into a good system. But there is no QB coming out that will thrive on this shitty team. It will be another first round pick wasted.

    Seriously, QB isn't our problem. The pass rush and run game are our glaring holes. Adding a rookie QB to the mix won't solve either.

  8. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Browns next QB View Post
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    Is there an Andrew Luck in this years class? No? Then hold off on the QB position unless we have a killer free agency (which we won't). There may be a great QB when put into a good system. But there is no QB coming out that will thrive on this shitty team. It will be another first round pick wasted.

    Seriously, QB isn't our problem. The pass rush and run game are our glaring holes. Adding a rookie QB to the mix won't solve either.
    To get an Andrew Luck, we'll need the first overall pick.

  9. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Browns next QB View Post
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    Is there an Andrew Luck in this years class? No? Then hold off on the QB position unless we have a killer free agency (which we won't). There may be a great QB when put into a good system. But there is no QB coming out that will thrive on this shitty team. It will be another first round pick wasted.

    Seriously, QB isn't our problem. The pass rush and run game are our glaring holes. Adding a rookie QB to the mix won't solve either.
    Absolutely QB is our problem. That's all everyone has said forever, "when will Cleveland get their franchise QB." Doesn't have to be an Andrew Luck. Been trying to fix the d for years and it's not working. Get your QB and build around him. McCown is good for one more year, if need be sit the rookie for a year. This is some of the top rated college QBs, all are at least 6'4". Jared Goff, Connor Cook, Christian Hackenberg, Jacoby Brissett, Cardale Jones, and my new favorite, Paxton Lynch.
    Last edited by Gambler; 10-21-2015 at 06:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambler View Post
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    Absolutely QB is our problem. That's all everyone has said forever, "when will Cleveland get their franchise QB." Doesn't have to be an Andrew Luck. Been trying to fix the d for years and it's not working. Get your QB and build around him. McCown is good for one more year, if need be sit the rookie for a year. This is some of the top rated college QBs, all are at least 6'4". Jared Goff, Connor Cook, Christian Hackenberg, Jacoby Brissett, Cardale Jones, and my new favorite, Paxton Lynch.
    There is no viable approach to building everything BUT the QB before trying to GET the QB. We've been doing that for 15 years. If Manziel isn't the guy then there is a first priority next year following by all other priorities: QB.

    Its really that simple. Hard to execute, but easy to prioritize.

  11. #107
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    I still really like Christian Hackenberg. It's just not coming together for him with that shitty team and highly questionable offense. I feel like he's going to be a kid who performs better at the pro-level than he does in college. Against Ohio State, they only let him throw 13 times and he STILL took five sacks. The kid is on pace to take something like 70 sacks so they're just not letting him throw. I again take people back to the infamous play from the Temple game - three pass rushes, six blockers, sacked in under 2.5 seconds. Fucking mental.

    What the kid has?

    - Age. He's only 20. He'll be 21 shortly before being drafted. He's very young.

    - Intelligence. He's learned two different pro-style offenses in three years, and is known as a true intelligent quarterback.

    - Mental toughness, He's getting his ass kicked on a program held back by mistakes that were not the fault of the students, yet he's refused to give up and has accepted that sacrifices have to be made. He takes so many damn hits but doesn't lash out and blame his team, and he supports the coaches fully as they constantly tinker with the game plan. Against Ohio State, he was asked about his career lowest of 13 pass attempts and how badly it hurt him. His response? "What matters is what we’re being asked to do and we need to be able to go out and execute at a high level. That’s how we all approach it, that’s how I approach it. I know that these coaches are game-planning hard each and every week. Whatever is being asked of us, we go with that 1,000 miles an hour, we make a mistake we move on and we try and get better from it." What I also love about that, for us, is that's the type of kid who isn't going to complain if we want him to develop behind McCown next season. If McCown is still playing well, and beats out Christian, the kid isn't going to go all Johnny Diva on us.

    - Size and arm. 6'4", 235 pounds, cannon. He can make every single throw, he just needs to put it all together. Good thing he's got those brains and work ethic.

    It's a hard one for me. Looking back at the successful players in the NFL, it's amazing how many are incredibly successful in college. I've been trying to push myself to take that into consideration with incoming prospects, but the challenges he personally faces on that team aren't alike to any other player. He's in a very unique situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
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    I still really like Christian Hackenberg. It's just not coming together for him with that shitty team and highly questionable offense. I feel like he's going to be a kid who performs better at the pro-level than he does in college. Against Ohio State, they only let him throw 13 times and he STILL took five sacks. The kid is on pace to take something like 70 sacks so they're just not letting him throw. I again take people back to the infamous play from the Temple game - three pass rushes, six blockers, sacked in under 2.5 seconds. Fucking mental.

    What the kid has?

    - Age. He's only 20. He'll be 21 shortly before being drafted. He's very young.

    - Intelligence. He's learned two different pro-style offenses in three years, and is known as a true intelligent quarterback.

    - Mental toughness, He's getting his ass kicked on a program held back by mistakes that were not the fault of the students, yet he's refused to give up and has accepted that sacrifices have to be made. He takes so many damn hits but doesn't lash out and blame his team, and he supports the coaches fully as they constantly tinker with the game plan. Against Ohio State, he was asked about his career lowest of 13 pass attempts and how badly it hurt him. His response? "What matters is what we’re being asked to do and we need to be able to go out and execute at a high level. That’s how we all approach it, that’s how I approach it. I know that these coaches are game-planning hard each and every week. Whatever is being asked of us, we go with that 1,000 miles an hour, we make a mistake we move on and we try and get better from it." What I also love about that, for us, is that's the type of kid who isn't going to complain if we want him to develop behind McCown next season. If McCown is still playing well, and beats out Christian, the kid isn't going to go all Johnny Diva on us.

    - Size and arm. 6'4", 235 pounds, cannon. He can make every single throw, he just needs to put it all together. Good thing he's got those brains and work ethic.

    It's a hard one for me. Looking back at the successful players in the NFL, it's amazing how many are incredibly successful in college. I've been trying to push myself to take that into consideration with incoming prospects, but the challenges he personally faces on that team aren't alike to any other player. He's in a very unique situation.

    Hackenberg is Matt Barkley with measurables. NO THANK YOU.

    Oh, and FTR - I'm still laughing at tall the "fail for Cardale" geniuses.
    Last edited by The_QCT; 10-24-2015 at 08:18 AM.

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    Still take Cardale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twizbuck View Post
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    Still take Cardale.
    I'd stay away from Cardale. Nothing I've seen from him this season makes me believe he's ready to succeed in the NFL right now. I'm not even sure he will ever get to that point.
    In the words of Tony Rizzo... "FIND ME A FREAKING QUARTERBACK!"

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    I dunno...there are several QB's coming out. Cardale has all the physical attributes, but is not dedicated from what I've heard and that's why he was 3rd string QB last year. I like Cook or Goff over Jones.
    "The quarterback question lingers, but the Browns traded and traded and traded and traded and traded and acquired nine players and three high draft choices.

    It's tough to argue those results." Pat McManamon 5-3-16

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    Quote Originally Posted by next2nothing View Post
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    I'd stay away from Cardale. Nothing I've seen from him this season makes me believe he's ready to succeed in the NFL right now. I'm not even sure he will ever get to that point.
    They're trying to make him the total opposite of the QB he is. They kept things simple last season for him and he thrived. There's a guy deep, there's a guy short, or you run. This offense will look better with Barrett because he fits it. It's truly amazing how much we miss our old OC. With Ash and Fickell, these Coordinatorsites give me a headache.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jaydog View Post
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    I dunno...there are several QB's coming out. Cardale has all the physical attributes, but is not dedicated from what I've heard and that's why he was 3rd string QB last year. I like Cook or Goff over Jones.
    I've just never been big on Cook. Feel like he's a do it all but nothing great kind of guy with limited upside.

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    We need elliot or bosa.

    No qb. We got manziel and he needs given real shot with real players and real head coach.

    Gordon back.
    Elliot and duke johnson

    Id draft braxton miller. He is best qb in country.


    Pharoah cooper south carolina
    Dural lsu
    Shepard oklahoma
    Michael thomas osu

    If we can get elliot miller and pharoah cooper we will be explosive.


    Manziel is gonna be a stud. We arent drafting qb. Mccown can play another year. Manziel is future...

    Passrush
    Rb
    Wr


    Qb isnt even a problem for us.

    Benjamin
    Gordon
    Braxton miller
    Sterling shepard or dural

    Thats a offense.

    Manziel will take this team to next level when he actually get starter reps from day one.

    He has been in two systems....and not gotten reps except one week. He looked sooo much better with reps.

    Same offense next year and manziel starter from day one.


    We need washington or bosa.
    Our dline needs built.

  18. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Browns next QB View Post
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    1. DE
    2. WR
    3. RB
    Yep on these top three, IF Manziel shows he is worth another year.

    The order would depend on who's available and if we think Gordon is going to make it back. I might be able to live with Gordon, Hartline, and Benjamin + a second to third rounder or real FA signing.

    Would love to land either Zeke, Bosa, or Jaylon Smith - and then Will Fuller in the second round.

    (Damn, we're really close to entering our true medium. Draft talk and listening to bitching about the FO. That sucks)

    Would rather trade all of those mid round garbage draft picks to move up vs moving back, collecting picks, and drafting all of the "diamond in the rough" misses.
    2017 Draft picks: #1, #12, #33, #52, #65, #108, #145, #175, #181, #185, #188 - 11 total
    2018 Draft picks: Extra picks - Two in 2nd (Eagles/Wentz & Texans/Osweiler), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), & a 6th (Steelers/Gilbert) - 11 total
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, S. Coleman, Kessler, Drango, Kindred, 2017 #12 (Eagles) & #52 (Titans), 2018 2nd rnd (Eagles) pick
    Draft: 4/28-30, Rookie MiniCamp: 5/12-14, OTA's: 5/23-6/8, Veteran MiniCamp: 6/13-15

  19. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgsDefense View Post
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    We need elliot or bosa.

    No qb. We got manziel and he needs given real shot with real players and real head coach.

    Gordon back.
    Elliot and duke johnson

    Id draft braxton miller. He is best qb in country.


    Pharoah cooper south carolina
    Dural lsu
    Shepard oklahoma
    Michael thomas osu

    If we can get elliot miller and pharoah cooper we will be explosive.


    Manziel is gonna be a stud. We arent drafting qb. Mccown can play another year. Manziel is future...

    Passrush
    Rb
    Wr


    Qb isnt even a problem for us.

    Benjamin
    Gordon
    Braxton miller
    Sterling shepard or dural

    Thats a offense.

    Manziel will take this team to next level when he actually get starter reps from day one.

    He has been in two systems....and not gotten reps except one week. He looked sooo much better with reps.

    Same offense next year and manziel starter from day one.


    We need washington or bosa.
    Our dline needs built.
    I agree with DawgDefense the Browns need a big, fast , good RB to complement Duke. Crowell is a nice third string back in my opinion.

    Browns also need a tough guy at defensive end and better linebackers. Just watching the game last night I was thinking about the Browns LBs vs. the tough, fast guys I saw for Carolina and Philly at the LB position. No comparison. It was interesting watching last night and seeing Carolina actually have LBs able to cover the edges, unlike the Browns.
    Last edited by AttackOffense; 10-26-2015 at 09:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    I hope Holmgren rots in hell.

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    2011 - Phil Taylor
    2012 - Trent Richardson, Brandon Weeden
    2013 - Barkevious Mongo
    2014 - Justin Gilbert, Johnny Manziel
    2015 - Danny Shelton, Cameron Irving

    2016 - ?????


    DOES IT MATTER?

  23. #119
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    Well that's depressing lol
    BROWNS 2017: TIME TO SHIT THE BED IN ANOTHER DRAFT, YAY!
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    "Hue and the guys are gonna turn that Frankenstein into a Frankenfine!" - next2nothing on RGIII

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Force Ten View Post
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    2011 - Phil Taylor
    2012 - Trent Richardson, Brandon Weeden
    2013 - Barkevious Mongo
    2014 - Justin Gilbert, Johnny Manziel
    2015 - Danny Shelton, Cameron Irving

    2016 - ?????


    DOES IT MATTER?
    That's why the most important decision an owner makes is the GM. Browns owners since 1999 have chosen crap at the GM position and it's reflected int he drafting and team record.

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