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Thread: You're gonna eat lightnin' and you're gonna crap MEGATHREADS! (QB 29)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
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    At what point do you say it's time to commit to Manziel as the starter and see if he can grow into the role and answer all the questions about "Next Year" for once?
    2 weeks ago. Period! End of discussion!

    -Al
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
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    In an odd way, it did become worst case scenario: Josh played very well. No doubt about it. But we lost and we're 1-3 and have a 14% of making the playoffs... add in that we haven't seen the toughest part of our schedule (especially with the Chargers so depleted) and I'd put that at more like 3%.

    At what point do you say it's time to commit to Manziel as the starter and see if he can grow into the role and answer all the questions about "Next Year" for once? We really can't know much of ANYTHING about him until he starts a run of games with almost no chance of getting pulled. Losing with 36-year-old McCown playing well enough to hold the job adds up to a net zero: We aren't winning now and we aren't figuring out anything about the long-term stability of the most important position in team sports.

    It's really tough to pull him right now. I get that. He played extremely well. But at 1-4? Yeah, I'd say we need to shift the plan to developing Manziel with an eye to next year. Our offense is functioning at a pretty high level. We pass protect well. We ran the ball well today (100 yards, 4.9 a carry) and saw that Duke Johnson can be a serious factor in the passing game. Benjamin is expanding his repertoire. Hartline had over 100 the week before. Barnidge has been good all year. We need to get Hawkins and Gabriel involved.

    It's a pretty good situation for a young QB. But my great fear is that Pettine, even at 1-4 or 1-5, keeps saying that Josh "isn't the problem."

    Which also isn't the point.
    Shep- I've been down this road before- and it was said about Vinnie Testaverde in the past- "Josh is going to play just well enough to get you beat."

    That- and If Pettine is a defensive genius- how in the hell to you totally blow a couple coverages where the Browns don't have a defender within 10 yards of a Chargers receiver?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
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    Oh, I forgot: Pettine has dug in by saying he doesn't want to talk about "finding out about Manziel."

    When you aren't in a playoff chase, which we're approaching quickly, that makes no sense whatsoever.
    Well, after a bit of digging through this website ... somehow my posts from 2012 through 2014 are missing ... However, I remember somewhat joking around with you during Pet/Farmer's first draft that they would select defensive guys through and through, since Pet was a defensive coach and Farmer was a former Linebacker in the NFL. We both rolled our eyes, but the joke was on us!

    Despite his drunken ramblings, AO was always right! This is a passing league that needs passing assets!

    -Al

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoorta View Post
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    ... If Pettine is a defensive genius- how in the hell do you totally blow a couple coverages where the Browns don't have a defender within 10 yards of a Chargers receiver?
    I know you asked this question directly to Shep, but I must respond...

    They blew up coverages by over-pursuing. Neither Dansby nor Hitner (i.e. The Anti-Tackler, who I always used to love) bothered to cover the TE on SD's winning TD. yet it it has always, and continues to be a problem in Pet/O'Brien's scheme. I understand the point of sending the house, but not on the goal line. #SMH...

    -Al

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    Last edited by Geech; 10-04-2015 at 11:21 PM.

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    There is no defensive scheme that happily allows 400 yards and 450 yards in consecutive weeks, you don't get to the NFL, especially when that defensive scheme has a successful history of working. At some point, people have to start holding the players accountable instead of the coaches. It's always the same fucking story - blame the coaches, have a new coach come in to work with a bunch of bums who aren't going to be made or broken by a scheme.

    The front seven needs a rebuild. Badly. They consistently get their asses beat, nobody gets off blocks and nobody is able to contain the gaps. We're not just giving up big runs, we're giving them gaping fucking holes. Paul Kruger might have taken the largest regression I've seen from a player ever. He can't pass rush worth shit, and he doesn't seem to know what setting the edge is. Right now, we're getting no decent play at DE and OLB. These guys just cannot beat their matches. And we're lacking at ILB. I like Kirksey and Dansby, but neither of them are a dominant force. Dansby needs to be replaced anyway, he's going to retire either this season or next.

    It's a disgusting loss. The offense looks fantastic. They're all playing at a high level, and Flip's scheme is incredibly simple yet smart.

    As for finding out what we've got in Johnny, there's no point. Pettine is gone anyway so he's not going to waste his time benching McCown, who played lights out, just to find out what the next coach has got. It's a shame, it's not his fault the players don't give a fuck. None of them are playing with any sort of integrity, and it's embarrassing.

    I'm also pissed at Farmer. He's made no good moves at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
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    The front seven needs a rebuild.
    Um... we just rebuilt it lol

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geech View Post
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    I know you asked this question directly to Shep, but I must respond...

    They blew up coverages by over-pursuing. Neither Dansby nor Hitner (i.e. The Anti-Tackler, who I always used to love) bothered to cover the TE on SD's winning TD. yet it it has always, and continues to be a problem in Pet/O'Brien's scheme. I understand the point of sending the house, but not on the goal line. #SMH...

    -Al

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    That's totally moronic and another reason we need to clean house at the end of the season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    Um... we just rebuilt it lol
    Yeah, that's the underlying point.

    Bottom line to my eye: we don't have anyone in our front seven that is a real threat to win a one-on-one match-up. That's what a playmaking front seven player threatens on every play. Its an exception for us when it does happen. If Manziel proves he's the guy, an impact edge rusher becomes my number one need (or need 1a after receiver) in next year's draft. An ILB is sitting just a notch lower on the list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Yeah, that's the underlying point.

    Bottom line to my eye: we don't have anyone in our front seven that is a real threat to win a one-on-one match-up. That's what a playmaking front seven player threatens on every play. Its an exception for us when it does happen. If Manziel proves he's the guy, an impact edge rusher becomes my number one need (or need 1a after receiver) in next year's draft. An ILB is sitting just a notch lower on the list.
    All I can say is I saw JJ Watt for the first time yesterday
    "Hoping"

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    Um... we just rebuilt it lol
    And yet it seems to merit some more TLC
    BROWNS 2017: I'M JASON LA CANFORA'S INSIDER
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    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    And yet it seems to merit some more TLC
    Disappointed in Orchard and Cooper so far. I really think a good part of this is the coaching.

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    I'd like to say good job to McCown. He may be 1-14 in his last 15 starts but he played well this week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Browns next QB View Post
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    I'd like to say good job to McCown. He may be 1-14 in his last 15 starts but he played well this week.
    Yes, I am not a fan of McCown at all, but he deserves a round of applause from me for his performance on Sunday.

    But we've seen the last of the lesser teams.
    Last edited by AttackOffense; 10-05-2015 at 05:32 PM.

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    SOmething weird is going on with Joe Haden.. I asked LA about it awaiting a response.

    I noticed it started back in July. Ma-June he seemed normal, but then in July his demeanor changed, something happened. His interviews have been weird, smile gone, etc. Ever since July, it makes me wonder if its a personal or locker room issue as his play has been off too.

    Now Pettine threw him under the bus with the "Joe decided not to play" comment.


    This makes me wonder if Joe was one of the 3 TMZ leaks as ppl said to pay attention to who sees limited action on Sunday

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    SOmething weird is going on with Joe Haden.. I asked LA about it awaiting a response.

    I noticed it started back in July. Ma-June he seemed normal, but then in July his demeanor changed, something happened. His interviews have been weird, smile gone, etc. Ever since July, it makes me wonder if its a personal or locker room issue as his play has been off too.

    Now Pettine threw him under the bus with the "Joe decided not to play" comment.


    This makes me wonder if Joe was one of the 3 TMZ leaks as ppl said to pay attention to who sees limited action on Sunday
    Good read, PGL. Drugs? Remember, he was suspended the other year. I agree that something has happened there.

    Life is not easy. When you are a #1 DB on a team in the NFL, that's a lot of pressure. Some handle it and some don't. Maybe all he needs is someone to talk to. Are the Browns sensitive to that, or not? Will be interesting to follow. If I were Pettine and knew there was a problem, I would have been careful about what I said in public.

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    IDK, Im not sure if Im mis-remembering.. but if Im not mistaken wasnt there a report over the summer about a fallout between hima nd his wife?

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    IDK, Im not sure if Im mis-remembering.. but if Im not mistaken wasnt there a report over the summer about a fallout between hima nd his wife?
    Interesting thoughts, PGL.

    As I read your post on Haden, I kept thinking back to Joe's first plane flight to Cleveland, and a businessman who was on the fllght with him said Joe was so excited and just great to talk to and Joe was amazed at how much Browns fans already knew about him.

    Could very well be that women problems are at the root of this. Gotta encourage these kids -- and we forget they are just kids -- to talk somebody on staff who is an experienced counselor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    SOmething weird is going on with Joe Haden.. I asked LA about it awaiting a response.

    I noticed it started back in July. Ma-June he seemed normal, but then in July his demeanor changed, something happened. His interviews have been weird, smile gone, etc. Ever since July, it makes me wonder if its a personal or locker room issue as his play has been off too.

    Now Pettine threw him under the bus with the "Joe decided not to play" comment.


    This makes me wonder if Joe was one of the 3 TMZ leaks as ppl said to pay attention to who sees limited action on Sunday
    Yeah that's not cool. He had to know what he was saying there. I have a hard time believing Joe just suddenly became disgruntled. He's been a damn good player and teammate since the Adderall thing. It does seem strange tho.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
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    There is no defensive scheme that happily allows 400 yards and 450 yards in consecutive weeks, you don't get to the NFL, especially when that defensive scheme has a successful history of working. At some point, people have to start holding the players accountable instead of the coaches. It's always the same fucking story - blame the coaches, have a new coach come in to work with a bunch of bums who aren't going to be made or broken by a scheme.

    The front seven needs a rebuild. Badly. They consistently get their asses beat, nobody gets off blocks and nobody is able to contain the gaps. We're not just giving up big runs, we're giving them gaping fucking holes. Paul Kruger might have taken the largest regression I've seen from a player ever. He can't pass rush worth shit, and he doesn't seem to know what setting the edge is. Right now, we're getting no decent play at DE and OLB. These guys just cannot beat their matches. And we're lacking at ILB. I like Kirksey and Dansby, but neither of them are a dominant force. Dansby needs to be replaced anyway, he's going to retire either this season or next.

    It's a disgusting loss. The offense looks fantastic. They're all playing at a high level, and Flip's scheme is incredibly simple yet smart.

    As for finding out what we've got in Johnny, there's no point. Pettine is gone anyway so he's not going to waste his time benching McCown, who played lights out, just to find out what the next coach has got. It's a shame, it's not his fault the players don't give a fuck. None of them are playing with any sort of integrity, and it's embarrassing.

    I'm also pissed at Farmer. He's made no good moves at all.
    How do you know it isn't Pettine's fault. And even it isn't specifically his fault, as the head guy, team moral is his responsibility, is it not.

    Maybe Farmer's moves would look better with a better head coach. Reckon?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    Interesting thoughts, PGL.

    As I read your post on Haden, I kept thinking back to Joe's first plane flight to Cleveland, and a businessman who was on the fllght with him said Joe was so excited and just great to talk to and Joe was amazed at how much Browns fans already knew about him.

    Could very well be that women problems are at the root of this. Gotta encourage these kids -- and we forget they are just kids -- to talk somebody on staff who is an experienced counselor.
    At this point, I am not sure I would trust "somebody on staff."

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    How do you know it isn't Pettine's fault. And even it isn't specifically his fault, as the head guy, team moral is his responsibility, is it not.

    Maybe Farmer's moves would look better with a better head coach. Reckon?
    Are you really content with players who aren't self motivated?

    "I'd sure love to play hard, but I don't like the coach."

    I don't know about you, but I have no tolerance for that shit.

    Oh, and lastly, maybe Farmer just needs to draft better and not get suspended. He's got maybe one draft pick out there playing well, but it's all Pettine's fault. Right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    SOmething weird is going on with Joe Haden.. I asked LA about it awaiting a response.

    I noticed it started back in July. Ma-June he seemed normal, but then in July his demeanor changed, something happened. His interviews have been weird, smile gone, etc. Ever since July, it makes me wonder if its a personal or locker room issue as his play has been off too.

    Now Pettine threw him under the bus with the "Joe decided not to play" comment.


    This makes me wonder if Joe was one of the 3 TMZ leaks as ppl said to pay attention to who sees limited action on Sunday
    It's all in your head. His attitude in camp and preseason was fine, and not once did I ever see anyone raise concerns.

    We're making more anti-Pettine conspiracy shit, when in reality the dude got his ass kicked two weeks in a row and then missed a game with fucked up ribs and a broken finger because he didn't want to play against a top flight QB/Very good WR when he wasn't 100%. It happens.

    He's not been thrown under the bus, he's just been playing shit.

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    Does anyone else find it odd those who call others' "manziel apologist" make so many apologies/excuses for Pettine?

    I haven't seen the game yet.

    But I find it baffling, the idea of questioning pettines leadership is so crazy to some around here.

    Hell, the most leadership I've seen is farmer getting suspended for emotionally giving too much of a fuck.

    And that's a knock against the guy?

    This pet is football Jesus' to some of you.

    It's far more bizarre than any manziel fanboy you could show me.

    At what point does having the worst rushing defense fall on your defensive minded head coach?

    At what point does players/coaches getting suspended/cut/ for attitude/alcohol problems fall on the head coach?

    At what point do all the penalties fall on the head coach?

    All the inconsistency?

    And we're not even talking about it all being pettines fault, it's the suggestion it could be that's driving people nuts.

    It was before the season I asked what it was specifically Pettine did that made him such a great coach...

    I think the answers were...

    He gets the team to play hard
    And he gives good interviews.

    If anyone wants me to update that spreadsheet, let me know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoatShoes View Post
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    Does anyone else find it odd those who call others' "manziel apologist" make so many apologies/excuses for Pettine?

    I haven't seen the game yet.
    I think this speaks volumes. You haven't seen the game, but it's all Pettine's fault.

    Funnily enough, the people "defending" Pettine, like myself, seem significantly more interested in the players actually playing well than seeing the coach blamed for everything that's going to result in a blown up roster... because the fucking players aren't playing well.

    I'm sick of watching guys not get off blocks only for the fucking coach to be blamed because we didn't get a free runner every play.
    I'm sick of bums like Dwayne Bowe ruining this team but the coach being blamed because he can't get water from that stone.
    I'm sick of corners getting burned but the coaching being blamed even though it's a press man scheme and they've gotta be able to hold their own. It's not a bad scheme, it's bad play, and the players need to be held accountable for once in this team's history.
    I'm sick of this team taking dumbass penalties but it's the coaches fault, like he didn't think to tell them "Don't jump offside."
    I'm sick of this team missing tackles but the coach being blamed because apparently he didn't team them that, I don't know, you have to make tackles. Fuck it, Pettine, waste the next month teaching basic tackling techniques that no other team has to teach because we're the fucking Browns and it's all your fault when players don't tackle, how were they to know!
    I'm sick of half-heated performances being the "coaches responsibility" because apparently these players don't need to give a fuck on their own.

    What makes Pettine a great coach? What makes these players so damn good? Please point out to me all the guys playing at an all-pro level but are being fucked because of the scheme.

    Why do the people who point out the Manziel apologists 'defend' Pettine? Might be because every Manziel apologist seeks every excuse to blame Pettine for the dumbest shit on the weekly that has to be corrected.

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