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Thread: It all starts at the top.

  1. #1
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    Default It all starts at the top.

    The Browns won't be winners until they can lure a REAL Head Coach here that has had success. I think it has been proven that former coordinators turned Head Coach DOES NOT WORK HERE. I know it's probably all they can get but, at some point you have to wonder just how serious is the owner about winning? And is it the reason why this place has a radioactive barrier around it for players and coaches alike.

    I refuse to believe that this team has gone so long without ANY real improvement. I mean, the Browns draft history is so bad that any Joe Shmoe off the street would probably accidently hit on more picks than the Browns have over the past decade or so. I am almost believing that it is mathematically impossible for anyone to miss on so many picks.

    The problems with the team start from the owner, down to the GM, coaches, and coordinators, all the way down to the very last guy one roster. From now on I am holding EVERYONE accountable. No more excuses, new coach , new coordinators, new quarterback. I'm holding everyone, even the veteran leaders like Joe Thomas and Joe Haden responsible. I see no leadership out there from anyone, including our clueless coach. When the team struggles, the leaders need to get in player's ears and light a fire under their ass. This team is TOO soft, has been for a long time.
    Last edited by Neo; 10-04-2015 at 10:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
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    The Browns won't be winners until they can lure a REAL Head Coach here that has had success. I think it has been proven that former coordinators turned Head Coach DOES NOT WORK HERE. I know it's probably all they can get but, at some point you have to wonder just how serious is the owner about winning? And is it the reason why this place has a radioactive barrier around it for players and coaches alike.

    I refuse to believe that this team has gone so long without ANY real improvement. I mean, the Browns draft history is so bad that any Joe Shmoe off the street would probably accidently hit on more picks than the Browns have over the past decade or so. I am almost believing that it is mathematically impossible for anyone to miss on so many picks.

    The problems with the team start from the owner, down to the GM, coaches, and coordinators, all the way down to the very last guy one roster. From now on I am holding EVERYONE accountable. No more excuses, new coach , new coordinators, new quarterback. I'm holding everyone, even the veteran leaders like Joe Thomas and Joe Haden responsible. I see no leadership out there from anyone, including our clueless coach. When the team struggles, the leaders need to get in player's ears and light a fire under their ass. This team is TOO soft, has been for a long time.

    Yep, it begins with the owner and the people he hires. The GM and head coach decisions ARE everything. It's beyond fathomable that a procession of clowns have been called to Berea and hired in these important jobs. You'd think the nature of odds would be the Browns would hit it right maybe one in every three GM hires. But, alas, not!

    It's depressing remembering that the defense that looks miserable now has occasionally played well.

    But the Browns now have lost 8 of their last 9 NFL games. And now the difficult part of the schedule begins! I thought we'd be 2-2 at this juncture and still finish 5-11. I can't imagine what's going to happen now.

    I mean, a San Diego offense without three starters on the offensive line and without 2 of its top 3 receivers much of the game and we couldn't stop them. Wow.
    Last edited by AttackOffense; 10-04-2015 at 11:17 PM.

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    So as I asked a few weeks back, "Who should we select with the number 1 overall pick in the draft?" 1-15 here we come! Are you ready for this... I say, put snickers in and then we can either A. See him get destroyed or B. Prove beyond all reasonable doubt that snickers belongs in the Arena League. Either way we can move on.

    Its officially time to start talking next years draft.
    If you don't watch the games yourself and only parrot what the talking heads say YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WRITE THAT I CARE TO READ BECAUSE YOU ARE AN ASSHAT. i mean that in the best way possible of course. At the behest of a much respected one here I have altered my sig. Will he notice? :-)

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    Not quite yet. Farmer's in the building.
    "The quarterback question lingers, but the Browns traded and traded and traded and traded and traded and acquired nine players and three high draft choices.

    It's tough to argue those results." Pat McManamon 5-3-16

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaydog View Post
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    Not quite yet. Farmer's in the building.
    And his first act upon returning should be to cut Dwayne Bowe. What a disgrace he turned out to be. He is earning the easiest 9 million dollars I've ever seen.

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    At this point, Farmer is drafting the same level of talent Charlie Strong is getting in Texas. And, there's a shitload of talent in that state! Meanwhile, Houston, with a former Buckeye's/offensive guru, is rolling along like a raped ape. Farmers seat is hot, and the 3-4 defense is obsolete in CLE without a bunch of animals up front.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brownsfan1956 View Post
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    So as I asked a few weeks back, "Who should we select with the number 1 overall pick in the draft?" 1-15 here we come! Are you ready for this... I say, put snickers in and then we can either A. See him get destroyed or B. Prove beyond all reasonable doubt that snickers belongs in the Arena League. Either way we can move on.

    Its officially time to start talking next years draft.
    If Farmer is still GM:

    With their first pick in the 2016 NFL draft, the Cleveland Browns trade with the Houston Texans for ...."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sarge View Post
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    At this point, Farmer is drafting the same level of talent Charlie Strong is getting in Texas. And, there's a shitload of talent in that state! Meanwhile, Houston, with a former Buckeye's/offensive guru, is rolling along like a raped ape. Farmers seat is hot, and the 3-4 defense is obsolete in CLE without a bunch of animals up front.
    Has anyone noticed how spectacular the Atlanta offense has been with Shanahan at the helm? Of course, he has a real QB and several real receivers ottowork with!

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    What a mixed bag this season...

    I haven't been able to watch the last 2 games; my opinion isn't worth much...

    But man, from the stat line--we gotta win a game the offense plays like that.

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    Default Be careful what you wish for.

    I know everyone is frustrated. . . and some people want everyone fired. But the issue we've experienced over the past decade and a half really come down to lack of continuity in the front office, coaching staff, etc. If you are calling for Farmer to be fired. . . guess where those dominoes fall? Pettine also gets fired, DeFilippo also is out, as well as O'Neill, and guess where that leads. . . get rid of those players and bring in their own.

    I honestly like Pettine, best coach we've had in quite some time. I also am excited about the promise that Defilippo has showed in how he is evolving, adjusting. Pettine obviously has some work to do. . . I've heard it here, he needs to put his focus on D and allow Flip to focus on the O. Give that a shot for a while.

    Just please, don't blow it up again yet. . . please. Not again already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fooleeze View Post
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    I know everyone is frustrated. . . and some people want everyone fired. But the issue we've experienced over the past decade and a half really come down to lack of continuity in the front office, coaching staff, etc. If you are calling for Farmer to be fired. . . guess where those dominoes fall? Pettine also gets fired, DeFilippo also is out, as well as O'Neill, and guess where that leads. . . get rid of those players and bring in their own.

    I honestly like Pettine, best coach we've had in quite some time. I also am excited about the promise that Defilippo has showed in how he is evolving, adjusting. Pettine obviously has some work to do. . . I've heard it here, he needs to put his focus on D and allow Flip to focus on the O. Give that a shot for a while.

    Just please, don't blow it up again yet. . . please. Not again already.
    I think it has little to do with continuity. It has everything to do with lack of competence! You don't hire people who aren't prepared or good enough to coach or be a GM in the NFL! Period.

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    Ok, if you fire another regime, who is going to come here? Pettine was our 8th choice based on the opinion of some people. Fire him again, do you think you get your 1st choice next time? Probably not. . . maybe we're down to our 10th choice because this organization is where coaches go to ruin their careers.

    Don't you think that showing the commitment to giving a regime just ONE more year to execute their plan shows a little more commitment and allows us the opportunity to maybe get our 4th or 5th choice instead of our 8th to 10th choice?

    Fire another regime after 2 years, and NOBODY is going to want to take a job here.

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    And for the record, Farmer was actively courted by other organizations, so it's not like we're just hiring people that nobody wants. Bills fans and the organization were upset to lose Pettine. Outside of the negative Cleveland media, these were both viewed as good hires. And, for the record, Pettine has the second best record of any coach in Cleveland in the past 20 years behind Bill Belichick through their first 20 games.

    The most I would accept this offseason would be to possibly move on from a D coordinator. . . but beyond that, I'm ready for a LITTLE bit of continuity for a change.

    Some people here are never going to be happy unless we hire Bernie or Bill Polian as GM and Gruden or Cowher as Coach. And none of those are going to happen.
    Last edited by Fooleeze; 10-05-2015 at 12:32 PM.

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    Continuity is hard to argue for when we consistently see 10+ penalties each week. Everything this team hypes up goes to the wayside: D Line, Secondary, JF, you name it. One step forward, two steps back. And, people just take it in stride like no biggy. So, continuity cannot rightfully be argued that well if at all. But, the point about the media in CLE is accurate. They're afraid of somebody looking good for a change.

    It's rigged.

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    You make some really strong points Fooleeze. The pendulum swings in emotion for our fanbase is certainly challenging; especially considering our history since '99.

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    To all you doubters...nobody said it was going to be painless getting the #1 pick in the draft...

    I say that tonge in cheek because somehow I feel we could screw that up


    The glass half full attitude has taken shot to its hull...




    - - - Updated - - -

    To all you doubters...nobody said it was going to be painless getting the #1 pick in the draft...

    I say that tonge in cheek because somehow I feel we could screw that up


    The glass half full attitude has taken shot to its hull...


    just beat it

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    I think some of this up and down play is part of an easy...way to easy training camp. Combined with the fact this coaching staff looks like they coach scared and players don't appear interested at times.

    Just heard on Rizzo that Hawkins was on his cell phone at halftime and banned a twitter follower at the half. I think Pettine needs to shake these guys up somehow. The veteran "leadership" in particular needs to smack these pups around a bit and piss off the saps like Bowe who are only collecting a check.

    Pettine also needs to smack around his OC, DC and all the assistants. Or Farmer needs to tell Pettine when his friends are not cutting it as coaches and if he refuses to address these coaches properly, then he needs to do it and make them uncomfortable. Piss them off.

    Every last mother fucker in that building should be pissed off all week and until we win a game.
    "The quarterback question lingers, but the Browns traded and traded and traded and traded and traded and acquired nine players and three high draft choices.

    It's tough to argue those results." Pat McManamon 5-3-16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    You make some really strong points Fooleeze. The pendulum swings in emotion for our fanbase is certainly challenging; especially considering our history since '99.
    Nobody is getting fired this year at least until the end of the season. If the current regime wants to fix this there is going to have to be blood on the damn floor and a clear direction.

    I contend Farmer gets a bum rap, yeah he bought the groceries but Pettine has shown himself to burn or undercook about everything provided. 2-11 people, TWO AND FUCKING ELEVEN. I hope there is a damn power struggle, though I find it real hard to imagine the 2-11 guy winning it. The guy who is responsible for the schemes, the selection of assistants, who has been an utter failure at "changing the culture" or making the lineup decisions, yeah that guy. Ray could provide filet minion and the 2-11 guy will turn it into hamburger.

    Let's keep playing the old guy with the stats...yep that is the ticket. We finish 3-13 but McCown is the leagues top passer getting ready to turn 37 and maybe makes the pro bowl. Let's keep trotting out the fossils like Whittner and Dansby because a veteran breakdown is soooooo much better than a youngster making a mistake and learning from it for like....the FUTURE. It will be awesome with all the veteran "leadership", we won't win any games but we will be setting an excellent example of what "Playing like a Brown" really means. Is there anything more inappropriate for this team to use as a slogan than "play like a Brown?"

    If I am Ray I show up this morning and after cutting Bowe and apologizing for that misstep I get ready for ready for war. I tell Pettine to forget about attending offensive meetings and fix his damn defense. I tell him to play the youngsters. I tell him that he isn't allowed to rely on washed up veterans anymore, his is tasked with developing players for the FUTURE. If I am going to go out I go out on my terms and take Pettine with me. If Farmer is fired you know Pettine will go too, any new GM will want his own guy anyway.

    This team is adrift. Time for SOMEONE to take charge and move it forward otherwise we will waste more time going nowhere. Go bold or go home.
    Last edited by brutalfacts; 10-05-2015 at 01:29 PM.

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    Who brought in McCown, Dansby, and Whitner?

    Name me one edge rusher on this roster that would start for any other NFL franchise?

    Look, regardless of what you think of the coaching staff why would you excuse Farmer? To use your metaphor; we're burning spoiled food at this point.

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    I really don't understand the Pettine hate today. Given all that has happened with this franchise since Pett was hired, how can it POSSIBLY be his fault that these players can't make plays to finish games?

    Seriously, consider the Manziel mania (not his fault), the trade down (no idea if he approved of that but doubt he would NOT have wanted K. Mack) before drafting Gilbert (yes, he probably had a vote but his job is not to know whether Gilbert was a head case or not), then they have a GREAT start last year which is derailed by Mack's loss plus Manziel mania.

    This year, they lose Josh on the FIRST SERIES OF THE YEAR but rebound to play well enough with Manziel to win -- at home against a rookie QB -- before having two AWFUL defensive weeks in a row to lose two close games.

    And, frankly, those two losses, while painful and terrible to absorb, were at least PROFESSIONAL LOSSES. And yes, such a thing exists. These weren't Shurmer-esque or Mangini-esque losses where it wasn't clear that the Browns even knew they were ALLOWED to score points.

    These were NFL losses: both games came down to the final play.

    And, though Pett doesn't want to allow excuses, we should: missing four starters on D and being forced to play your special teams ace at CB and your backup safety for most of the game?

    Rather than roasting this guy, maybe we should be praising this staff for having those guys even capable of playing at a decent level.

    I'm not willing to hang a second-year coach with a first-year OC and a second-year DC given the talent level on this team. They need all hands on deck to have a shot and they are FAR below that right now.

    Instead, I'm going to wait and judge how they bounce back this week, win or lose. Two desperate 1-3 teams playing to stay out of the AFCN basement? Should be a vicious dogfight. This will be a REAL test of the coach and the team. We'll know more about who gives a shit next week at this time.

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    Remember when Marvin Lewis was in his 2nd or 3rd year and most folks had him getting fired? It never happened and now the continuity that was provided him by ownership has paid off.

    Does anybody think Pettine gets another year let alone two more? I think Pettine might be part of the problem, but not the crux of the problem. The other side is players that don't care enough to try to get the team over these locker room issues. It's also busted 1st rd picks that go back to forever, but recently Mingo, Gilbert, Erving, Taylor and shitloads of other picks.
    "The quarterback question lingers, but the Browns traded and traded and traded and traded and traded and acquired nine players and three high draft choices.

    It's tough to argue those results." Pat McManamon 5-3-16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Who brought in McCown, Dansby, and Whitner?

    Name me one edge rusher on this roster that would start for any other NFL franchise?

    Look, regardless of what you think of the coaching staff why would you excuse Farmer? To use your metaphor; we're burning spoiled food at this point.
    I am not excusing anyone, this mess was created by both and if they both have to go so be it. McCown was not a poor move given the alternative, Dansby and Whitner were local boys brought in to provide stability. I got no gripe with Dansby, he is an old warrior who is just quietly aging out. Whitner is a shell of what he was even last year who seems to be the last one to realize it.

    What I am saying is....Pettine has proven himself to be in over his head. There is really no hope for him, the team will not turn any corners as long as his love of "veterans" rules the day, his "players coach" persona is in place, and his conservative nature holds this team back. Best case for Mike Pettine without intervention is he gets fired in Cleveland (which will happen long before this team sees a playoff berth), goes somewhere as a DC, learns from his mistakes and gets another shot. Worst case...back to High School.

    Farmer will get another shot long before Pettine does, and has very little to lose by going on the offensive. Worst case for him is he gets a job in some teams personnel department and bides his time waiting for another opportunity. Realistically if this is going to be turned around (far from certain) Ray Farmer has a better chance of making that happen than Mike Pettine. Or we just blow it all up and start over.

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    The Browns are going nowhere until they accept the fact that the team needs a complete overhaul.

    Dump the older vets (Like the Bears are doing) for whatever you can get.

    Keep Pettine, and if he doesn't want JFF, then trade him to the Cowboys or Texans for whatever they can get.

    They need a three year plan. Every year we hear that they are going to compete for the division. Every year they do not compete for the division.

    Everyone on the team should be playing for a spot on next year's team. Bitch, moan, or complain and you're outta here!

    But it all starts with the Browns admitting they need to rebuild from the ground up. Patching together a team they "think" can win has proven to be a disaster year after year.

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    This is just my opinion..

    But I think Ray Farmer is about to light a fire under everyones asses.

    Ray Ray if you all dont remember doesnt take BS..




    I think he's gonna layeth the smacketh down on some candy asses. I'd be afraid to be Mike Pettine and Jim O'Neil in Berea right now.

    Ray gave Pettine the defense he wanted.. LA said Pettine "definitely had a hand in picking the groceries"

    If this team comes out with a new fire this week, we will know why

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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