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Thread: Game Day thread vs the Rams!

  1. #25
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    Nap time for Browns fans lol
    Always remember sports are like women:
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    Well, we don't know if Manziel is the answer, but it's time to get him in there and see what he's got. It's not like McClown is gonna run the table and lead the Browns to an 11-5 playoff record.

    Puny WRs don't have the strength to fight for the ball, get yards after contact, nor hold on to the ball, which leads to drops and fumbles. Right now, I'm watching Cooper and Crabtree destroy San Diego. That's after watching Browns WRs continue their perfect score of never breaking a tackle.

    The Browns defense doesn't have the players to get to the QB. Krueger can't do it all by himself. Add in the fact that the D can't stop the run and this team is going nowhere fast. I'd keep Krueger to play LDE, Shelton for NT, and Cooper for UT, then find a DE for the weak side of a 4-3. I'd also keep Desir and K. Williams (and see if Ifo can overcome overwhelming odds to get healthy). The rest can take a hike, including the coaches.

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    Post-game crickets here on BH. Feels like we are who we thought we were, or feared we were.

    ---

    I listened to the post-game interviews with McCown and Manziel.

    • McCown - sounded concussed to me. He could also have been tired + really down. Lots of mumbling and "well, you know, uhm, well" mixed in his responses. Really sounded defeated.
    • Manziel - frankly sounded up, eager, and excited he may get the start. Almost like he was holding back his excitement as he knew the loss was still fresh, but make no mistake, he's raring to go.
    • It sure seems like it's "Josh is banged up (and we need a spark), so Johnny will go against the Cardinals" time. At least it's a change at the reigns to look forward to.



    Other thoughts:

    • The defense actually played better, albeit not great or that good. Gurley had -2 yards in the first quarter and less than 50 at half. They held the Rams to 3 points well into the second half (since Gabriel gave up the 7). If the offense could have been productive, things could have been different. The best defenses hold teams to 17 points or less. 10 of the points were not really on them. The "fumble-6" surely wasn't.
    • Does anyone else feel like Crow isn't the answer after all? I'm starting to wonder. His vision isn't there. He doesn't scare anyone. Might be time to consider Zeke, Booker, or Henry.
    • Many want to blame Pett and the coaches, but this one is on the players. There's nothing Pett can do about the turnovers in this game. And that K'Waun pass interference penalty was BS.
    • Lastly, I've grown weary of seeing the smurfs "catch and cower" after a reception. Those short guys don't block well either. As much as I like the Rabbit, he totally whiffed on the Gabriel fumble.
    • If Manziel can show he's the QB to do the job, and that's one big fat IF, then I'm wondering if we shouldn't go RB and WR with our first two picks in the draft.
    Last edited by OconRecon; 10-25-2015 at 06:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Dumbass receiver .... Had abso-fucking-lutely nothing to do with the QB.
    Unreal.
    Again, McClown had held on to the ball for forever, not trusting his arm to make a more advantageous throw, or his feet to buy himself more time, and only as a last resort sought, almost as if just to inflate his passing numbers to pass it to the check-down guy who had obviously nowhere to go. I think this happened more than a few times ...

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    I can't wait until either Manziel turns into a great QB or flames the fuck out. Either way, I'll be done having to come on here only to read dipshit, QB fanboy posts fixated on a backup QB.

    There is so much that went wrong today outside the QB position, and yet I'm being flamed for not supporting the idea of giving Manziel the keys while he was in rehab? Fuck me.

    Gabriel gave the Rams an early Halloween present with his boneheaded approach to securing the football. That's entirely on his dumbass. 7 points

    McCown's first fumble was on McCown's on dumbassery as he simply holds on to the ball too damn long. Stupid. 3 points.

    Benji? His achilles heel. He simply can not allow himself to take any type of hit. He's fast but he's also too damn little.

    McCown's second fumble? The least atrocious of them all. Rams pinned their ears back and made a great play.

    Run defense? Embarrassing. The defense has no heart at all. Gurley's second touchdown made me sick. Five guys had shots at him and not one could make a play. Zero heart man, zero.

    The penalties are inexcusable. The first down play calling is inexcusable. I can count at least 6 series that started either 1st and more than 10 due to penalties or 2nd and more than 10 due to a shitty first down play call.

    This team simply can't get out of its own way.

    Oh, but if only Manziel had started. We'd have won! Fuck that and fuck the fake Browns fans who only care about the damn second string QB. I wanted the win today, don't care who the QB was to get me one, and at the end of the day the QB that played did not lose the game.

  6. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by legerdemain View Post
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    Again, McClown had held on to the ball for forever, not trusting his arm to make a more advantageous throw, or his feet to buy himself more time, and only as a last resort sought, almost as if just to inflate his passing numbers to pass it to the check-down guy who had obviously nowhere to go. I think this happened more than a few times ...
    Watch the fucking tape Einstein. The play you decided to talk shit about was a designed quick pass. Had nothing to do with holding on the ball too long, not trusting his arm, or his feet. It wasn't a last resort. You want to bash McCown and support your boycrush? Pick a better play to use. There was plenty of McCown low lights to choose one. This one was not one of those. Your objectivity is a joke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    I can't wait until either Manziel turns into a great QB or flames the fuck out. Either way, I'll be done having to come on here only to read dipshit, QB fanboy posts fixated on a backup QB.
    There will always be fixations on backup QBS, Grey. Until the Browns find a true franchise QB, there will always be more fixations on backups. It's sad and alarming.

    Cleveland Browns, 1946-1995, R.I.P.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Pick a better play to use. There was plenty of McCown low lights to choose one. This one was not one of those. Your objectivity is a joke.
    Classic GreyBduMaster, basically get it right on the facts but if there's one little thing he can pick on he attacks you personally, complete with ad hominems about how we're supposed to be a "Fa##ots" and such for wanting to see what the first round pick can do at QB ....
    Last edited by legerdemain; 10-25-2015 at 07:10 PM.

  9. #33
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    I think the Manziel fixation has nothing to do with the fact that he's our backup grey

    Its due to the fact that hes a bonafide 1st round Heisman winning quarterback who shattered records, and our fanbase has a sneaking suspicion that his play has nothing to do with him not being on the field, and that it may have more to do with the coaches "comfortability" and short sightedness

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    As much as I like the Rabbit, he totally whiffed on the Gabriel fumble.
    I thought so, too, but after seeing the replay, it looked like the inside WR (Rabbit?) made his block. I saw the 3 WRs on the left side with only 2 CBs up and 1 really deep. I said to myself, "Shit, throw the bubble screen." But the deep CB came charging in to cause the fumble. It looked like the Rams D suckered the Browns (and me) into that play.

    -Al

  11. #35
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    Unfortunately for Browns Fans psychiatrists are closed on Sundays.
    Always remember sports are like women:
    High School all the girls play,
    NCAA only good looking girls play,
    Pro's only the Super Models play !

    the most important reading you might ever do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    I think the Manziel fixation has nothing to do with the fact that he's our backup grey

    Its due to the fact that hes a bonafide 1st round Heisman winning quarterback who shattered records, and our fanbase has a sneaking suspicion that his play has nothing to do with him not being on the field, and that it may have more to do with the coaches "comfortability" and short sightedness
    Other reasons, too. Like let's see if he is the answer because McCown 'aint it. I never understood the stance of "McCown gives us a better chance to win." Win what? 5 games instead of 4? #SMH

    -Al

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    I think the Manziel fixation has nothing to do with the fact that he's our backup grey

    Its due to the fact that hes a bonafide 1st round Heisman winning quarterback who shattered records, and our fanbase has a sneaking suspicion that his play has nothing to do with him not being on the field, and that it may have more to do with the coaches "comfortability" and short sightedness
    Yes and let's not forget how he knows how to engineer wins, like against Bama on their home turf in one of their title years, which is much better than that wannabe guy A&M has now can do ...

    Looking good and getting the stats is one thing, but winning without the greatest team around you takes something else ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geech View Post
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    Other reasons, too. Like let's see if he is the answer because McCown 'aint it. I never understood the stance of "McCown gives us a better chance to win."
    -Al
    I have understood this very well since last year when the same thing was being said about Hoyer. Look who is saying it and you will know the story ....

  15. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by legerdemain View Post
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    Yet managed to generate what like four times as many points? Always some excuse for the Hoyers/McCowns, who know they just need to look good while losing to hold on to their jobs with the Pett. Personally I see a clear double standard, McCown turns the ball over on two strip sack fumbles, but "the offensive line didn't do it's job, and the other team's defense was playing lights out", while when JM fumbles twice but Browns recover, it's "Manziel has major issues with ball security and we're not going to play him until he improves in that and other aspects."




    This part I agree with.
    I didn't see the game. I overslept (Game starts at 4am here) and woke up at McCown was injured and Johnny was coming in, so I do want to make it clear I'm talking out of my ass here.

    However, McCown was 28/32 for 270 yards and Foles was 15/23 for 163 yards. Clearly, quarterback play wasn't the difference today, and I'd be utterly shocked if I watch the film and come away feeling like Foles not only outplayed McCown, but also was the reason they won, because the stat line sure doesn't support it.

    This is exactly why I keep saying we need to upgrade talent around the quarterback. If you like it or love it, that doesn't matter if it's Hoyer, McCown, Manziel, McCoy, Weeden, Lewis, Campbell, etc. Not once in my time on this forum have I ever been content with our talent around the quarterback or on the defense, so we can clear that up right now. This TEAM is not good enough, and I don't like pointing at the quarterback every week.

    At least on the stat line, their defense generated twice as many turnovers and twice as many sacks. Their offense generated twice as many rushing yards and twice as many touchdowns. That is an issue to me, and I ain't going to apologize for it just because some want to pretend it's making an excuse for the quarterback. I'll say it loud and proud - We're fucked next week when we take on a team loaded across the board with talent in a way we can only dream of, and that is going to hurt Johnny as he'll likely be the starter. His chances of success are greatly diminished given Arizona, as a team, are far and away more talented. That is not an excuse for Johnny, it is an accurate observation - But you know that, and accept it, because it's Johnny and not Josh.

    I didn't see McCown's fumbles so I don't know if he's at fault or what. I do know that fumbling is never a good thing, and I also know it's not always on the quarterback. If you're referring to last week when Denver got a free, untouched rusher who absolutely destroyed McCown - I maintain that's not entirely on him, and a fumble is understandable and would have happened to anyone. I also Maintain that Manziel turning the ball over like five times against the Jets, in our own half, isn't a damn pretty sight and it deserves criticism. With that said, I don't think anybody has been overly harsh on Manziel's play at all this year, especially given he's got a 99 passer rating. He's sure not been perfect, but he's played quite well, and that's been unanimously acknowledged - so, honestly, you're being a little oversensitive.

    Something we agreed on, Manziel does have ball security issues. All young quarterbacks do. He's made a bunch of turnovers and he's going to make a bunch more as he learns. Pointing that out isn't unfair on him. He acknowledges it himself. It's going to happen, and people generally understand that.

    What was the quote from the coach in the movie Draft Day? "I hate rookie quarterbacks. They're stupid and they're scared." It's not a double standard to be frustrated with young players. They're frustrating.

    For what it's worth - McCown has played exceptionally well and he's been smashed for it. Dude goes 28/32 for 270 yards and people are mad at him for it because he didn't win the game. $400 says people would not be upset with that stat line if it was Johnny out there. So, please, enough with the double standard bullshit. Johnny has continuously fucked up on and off the field and has got significantly more support than McCown and Hoyer, both of whom played quite well for the Browns and did nothing wrong off the field. There is a double standard, it just goes the other way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
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    enough with the double standard bullshit. Johnny has continuously fucked up on and off the field and has got significantly more support than McCown and Hoyer, both of whom played quite well for the Browns and did nothing wrong off the field.
    That's not the kind of support Manziel or most Browns fans care for, what's been missing is that from the head coach of the Browns ....

    And yeah, he has the spotlight on him 24-7, and is considerably younger than Hoyer or McCown, hard not to mistep under such conditions, especially with a messed up girlfriend like he has.

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    BDU Im sorry you didnt see the game.

    I mentioned in the chat that Mccowns statline was going to look good but he wasnt playing well.

    Evidence of this in the numbers can be found when looking at Duke Johnsons #'s. 7 catches for 73 yards... that was essentially 7 dump offs on 3rd and long situations.

    As you can also see the WR's had hardly any targets or receptions, and those receptions were for minimal yards they did get.

    Today Mccowns issue was, that he got plenty of time, and found no one down the field.

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by legerdemain View Post
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    That's not the kind of support Manziel or most Browns fans care for, what's been missing is that from the head coach of the Browns ....

    And yeah, he has the spotlight on him 24-7, and is considerably younger than Hoyer or McCown, hard not to mistep under such conditions, especially with a messed up girlfriend like he has.
    I think our coaching staff has done a heck of a job with Johnny. They've given him the freedom to make mistakes without being harsh to penalize him or trying to control his life. Through all the incidents, the only time he's actually been in trouble is when he missed treatment and the team couldn't get in touch with him, so they had to send security out only to find he was passed out drunk. Everything else, EVERYTHING, they've let it slide and supported him 100%.

    As far as on field, they did their best to understand he wasn't ready and have supported his development. They brought in an OC who loves him while firing one who refused to work with him, a QB coach who loves him while firing one who didn't like him at all. They got rid of a starting QB that Johnny didn't get on with, and brought in a guy who has been nothing short of an amazing mentor. They resisted drafting or signing another quarterback with ambitions of the future, and only two weeks ago Johnny publicly said everyone is telling him they still view him as the future.

    I just don't see how he's not getting the support that he cares for, or that we care for. A lot of teams would have cut him, sought to move on, been much more strict or, worst of all, thrown him out on the field to drown before he's ready. I personally feel the team has done a great job handling Manziel.

  19. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    BDU Im sorry you didnt see the game.

    I mentioned in the chat that Mccowns statline was going to look good but he wasnt playing well.

    Evidence of this in the numbers can be found when looking at Duke Johnsons #'s. 7 catches for 73 yards... that was essentially 7 dump offs on 3rd and long situations.

    As you can also see the WR's had hardly any targets or receptions, and those receptions were for minimal yards they did get.

    Today Mccowns issue was, that he got plenty of time, and found no one down the field.
    I'll have a look at it this week. The ultimate question, I suppose, is if anyone was open or not.

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    I know there was one third down, hawkins was open on (wide open) but he ran it for a short gain to a punt

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    This isn't even about McCown. He's a 36 year old journeyman and that makes this season pointless and frankly boring. Manziel is our 22-year-old first round Heisman winner keeps annoying the coaches by looking like he knows what he's doing now. He looked good again.

    You play him. Period. There's no Plan B. McCown gets hurt every game anyway. It's fucking Browns retardation, as usual.

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    Johnny will get his chance next week. It sucks, Arizona is a good team, but on the bright side it's certainly a platform to make an impression. Playing well against a team like Arizona is something that cannot be ignored.

    CJ2K has me shitting my pants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    I can't wait until either Manziel turns into a great QB or flames the fuck out. Either way, I'll be done having to come on here only to read dipshit, QB fanboy posts fixated on a backup QB.
    All any of us fanboys have ever wanted was for Manziel to be given a legitimate chance to succeed. I must say it is mighty big of you to finally agree that that it would be a good idea to see if Manziel can turn into a great QB or flame out.

    Assuming he really is going to get an actual chance now, I am glad for small favors. It would have been nice for said chance to have occurred in games following the Tennessee game before the season was obviously lost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    It would have been nice for said chance to have occurred in games following the Tennessee game before the season was obviously lost.
    We're 3rd in the division, one win behind Pittsburgh. The season isn't lost at all.

    And 11-5 is still possible. Not probable. But, hey, if Johnny is as good is you think that win streak to 11 wins will start this weekend.

    My spelling is fucked today - edit.
    Last edited by brownsdownunder; 10-25-2015 at 07:41 PM.

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