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Thread: Game Day thread vs the Rams!

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    McCown has played really well. He's a gamer. He's not why we're losing. I have nothing but respect for McCown's efforts.

    Finally. . . the time has come naturally. I so badly want to see if JFF can be the man. I think he can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by legerdemain View Post
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    Yes and let's not forget how he knows how to engineer wins, like against Bama on their home turf in one of their title years, which is much better than that wannabe guy A&M has now can do ...

    Looking good and getting the stats is one thing, but winning without the greatest team around you takes something else ....
    I seriously doubt if Manziel can win with this team this year--at least not now. But I want the organization to see if there is a chance that he can do it in the future. Do I think Manziel can lead the Browns to a victory over the Arizona Cardinals? Not really.

    But I think it would be a total waste of time and effort to try to beat Arizona with McCown, even if McCown was completely healthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
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    We're 3rd in the division, one win behind Pittsburgh. The season isn't lost at all.

    And 11-5 is still possible. Not probable. But, hey, if Johnny is as good is you think that win streak to 11 wins will start this weekend.

    My spelling is fucked today - edit.
    If you think it is actually possible for the Browns to win out, I am sorry for you my friend. I don't expect Manziel to lead the Browns to a victory over the Cardinals. It would be nice but I don't expect it. And after we lose that game, it literally will be impossible for us to go 11-5 this year. But I just want to see how he does in that game as well as the Bengals and the Steelers before the break and then also how he does after the break. I am tired of conjecture. I want to know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by legerdemain View Post
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    That's not the kind of support Manziel or most Browns fans care for, what's been missing is that from the head coach of the Browns ....

    And yeah, he has the spotlight on him 24-7, and is considerably younger than Hoyer or McCown, hard not to mistep under such conditions, especially with a messed up girlfriend like he has.
    Digging this up again with Johnny's post game presser.

    Yeah, I love this organization,'' said Manziel. "These guys, from Mr. (Jimmy) Haslam to Ray Farmer, to coach Pettine, to everybody, they've treated me incredible, they've stuck by me going into the off-season through some rough times. This is the place I got drafted, this is the place that means a lot to me and I still have a lot that I want to prove and a lot that I want to do.

    "I haven't been in the league very long, haven't made a very big impact, but I know I'm hopefully getting some chances this year before the season's over to try and get out and make something happen.''
    "Absolutely. I find solace in that building,'' he said. "I find a sense of peace being around the guys that we have on this team. And I feel like the way that I'm treated in the building, the way that I'm treated when I'm there. I love it. I love the guys that we have on this team.

    "So when I'm in the building, when it's work time, I'm extremely excited to be in there. I'm extremely excited to be going to work every day. I was able to stay focused and be prepared as I would any other week.''
    "So Josh did some really good things, and then today, looking at minus two or minus three or whatever it was in the turnover ratio, you're not going to win a lot of games like that in the NFL. So I trusted in coach Pett. I hoped and thought that I might get a chance to come in sometime down the road later in the season, didn't know when it would be but whenever it came I'm excited to get back out there and it felt good to be back in the huddle today.''
    Doesn't sound like a guy who isn't treated well.

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    Every Browns fan should be a Manziel fanboy, or pulling for him like mad. Life's a whole lot better if he keeps playing like he has since last Spring. He looks plenty damn viable for a 22-year-old to me. Not David Carr just yet, but we'll get there (!).

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    If you think it is actually possible for the Browns to win out, I am sorry for you my friend. I don't expect Manziel to lead the Browns to a victory over the Cardinals. It would be nice but I don't expect it. And after we lose that game, it literally will be impossible for us to go 11-5 this year. But I just want to see how he does in that game as well as the Bengals and the Steelers before the break and then also how he does after the break. I am tired of conjecture. I want to know.
    Oh ye of little faith.

    Quietly, it'll be a fucking success if we manage to get to six wins. Personally, I'd just like to see good play. But I said that leading up to the season - we're not taking on scrubs. These are good teams we're facing, and the ability to simply stay in these games and play well is key. We're a young team who needs to continue growing, and we need more talent before we can actually go out there and win consistently. Half our secondary is injured, our dline is abysmal, we lack offensive weapons and we're not set at quarterback. We can't ask too much.

    If Manziel puts up a fight against Arizona, I'll be impressed. Straight up, he doesn't have to win it, I just don't care.

    LOUDLY! We're going to win every fucking game from here on our and win the Superbowl. You won't be sorry for me when it happens!

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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
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    Digging this up again with Johnny's post game presser.
    Doesn't sound like a guy who isn't treated well.
    For me it spells: "A+ for attitude" The guy talks like a winner for sure, got to admire that. On the other hand he hasn't had to overcome that much real adversity in life it seems

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
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    He looked good again.
    He did? What the hell were you watching?

    This QB thing is just bullshit. It can't be separated and guys like me who've been openly, directly, and consistently supportive of the kid get lumped in as some type of neanderthal.

    Manziel looked like shit in his mop up duty. He didn't do dick but dump the ball off and tuck and run quickly.

    McCown was no where near the top of the list of reasons why we lost this football game today. You aren't going to read any credible analysis that makes this case. Shit, the first attempt on these forums was to blame McCown for Gabriel's fumble. Pathetic.

    Yes, we will see plenty of Manziel before the end of the year. That's not was has me hopping mad about today's performance.

    And fuck this notion that Manziel "deserves" better treatment. He needs to just worry about keeping up his end of the deal which includes avoiding police encounters of any kind. Period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    All any of us fanboys have ever wanted was for Manziel to be given a legitimate chance to succeed. I must say it is mighty big of you to finally agree that that it would be a good idea to see if Manziel can turn into a great QB or flame out.

    Assuming he really is going to get an actual chance now, I am glad for small favors. It would have been nice for said chance to have occurred in games following the Tennessee game before the season was obviously lost.
    Horseshit Cliff. Cheap shot and horseshit. I expect better from you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep View Post
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    Every Browns fan should be a Manziel fanboy, or pulling for him like mad. Life's a whole lot better if he keeps playing like he has since last Spring. He looks plenty damn viable for a 22-year-old to me. Not David Carr just yet, but we'll get there (!).
    Don't stir the pot here Shep. I hate that shit. You know damn well that I'm a fanboy.

    What I won't stand for is bullshit posts like the one stating McCown created the turnover on Gabriel's fumble.

    Pardon me if on game day I'm more interested in winning than "seeing what x player can do". I'm pissed we played like shit today and the QB position wasn't the problem. So, when the folks who only show up to talk Manziel jump on the pile, I get a little edgey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    You aren't going to read any credible analysis that makes this case. Shit, the first attempt on these forums was to blame McCown for Gabriel's fumble. Pathetic.
    I just saw the highlights on NFL network, and I was shocked. I'd read twice on here that it was "McCown's fumble-six" and nobody had even mentioned Gabriel. Rolled my eyes so far into the back of my head that it hurt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
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    I just saw the highlights on NFL network, and I was shocked. I'd read twice on here that it was "McCown's fumble-six" and nobody had even mentioned Gabriel. Rolled my eyes so far into the back of my head that it hurt.
    Its a joke. Great play by the defender and a really stupid, fundamental mistake by a professional football player (Gabriel). However, it didn't fit the narrative so one of our resident football experts just "made shit up".

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    Quote Originally Posted by legerdemain View Post
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    For me it spells: "A+ for attitude" The guy talks like a winner for sure, got to admire that. On the other hand he hasn't had to overcome that much real adversity in life it seems
    Is it really that hard to just accept our coaches are doing a good job with him? If even he thinks the relationship is strong, surely that has to make it accepted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
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    Oh ye of little faith.

    Quietly, it'll be a fucking success if we manage to get to six wins. Personally, I'd just like to see good play. But I said that leading up to the season - we're not taking on scrubs. These are good teams we're facing, and the ability to simply stay in these games and play well is key. We're a young team who needs to continue growing, and we need more talent before we can actually go out there and win consistently. Half our secondary is injured, our dline is abysmal, we lack offensive weapons and we're not set at quarterback. We can't ask too much.

    If Manziel puts up a fight against Arizona, I'll be impressed. Straight up, he doesn't have to win it, I just don't care.

    LOUDLY! We're going to win every fucking game from here on our and win the Superbowl. You won't be sorry for me when it happens!
    The real problem at this point is that we are not a young team anymore, particularly on defense. Three years ago, we were a young team, but not anymore. Banner and Lombardi did a number on that with FA while they were in control and the aging of the team has continued with Farmer. The chances of getting much better with the players we already have are becoming bleak.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Horseshit Cliff. Cheap shot and horseshit. I expect better from you.
    Actually, Grey, I was responding to a cheap shot.

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    McCown just doesn't win games.

    He was 3 and 5 during career peak #1 in Chicago.
    He is 1 and 4 during career peak #2 in Cleveland.

    Call it bad luck, not his fault, shitty carma, whatever.

    It just doesn't happen for him. He's a sub .500 QB even when he plays well.

    A more specific example is last week:

    McCown gets the ball after the Mingo INT, needs 5 yards, and goes backwards.
    Manning, who is having a terrible game, finds a way to string a few plays together in the end.

    Vs the Titans, Manziel, with mundane numbers, put the game away with a bomb to Travis.

    Yes, I'm picking and choosing examples here, but Manning has historically been clutch and McCown hasn't.

    Manziel was known for rising to the occasion at A&M. Let's see if he can do it in the NFL. Need more starts to really know.
    2017 Draft: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
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    2019 EXTRA picks: 7th rnd (w/ Coates)
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Don't stir the pot here Shep. I hate that shit. You know damn well that I'm a fanboy.

    What I won't stand for is bullshit posts like the one stating McCown created the turnover on Gabriel's fumble.

    Pardon me if on game day I'm more interested in winning than "seeing what x player can do". I'm pissed we played like shit today and the QB position wasn't the problem. So, when the folks who only show up to talk Manziel jump on the pile, I get a little edgey.
    I can't speak for anyone else, but I do not see us winning with what we have. We are no longer young and it is difficult to see how our aging team is going to get much better without an infusion of new talent. To win, I think we are going to have to make some changes. And to that extent, I am very interested in seeing what x player can do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    Actually, Grey, I was responding to a cheap shot.
    From this thread or an older vendetta? I'd hope you'd give me a bit of leeway after Leger's astute observation about McCown's fumble six.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
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    McCown's fumble-six
    I called it a fumble-six many times, but never did I pin that on McCown. That was on Gabriel, and secondary blame to Benji for missing the block.
    2017 Draft: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
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    Is it really that hard to just accept our coaches are doing a good job with him? If even he thinks the relationship is strong, surely that has to make it accepted.
    The kid has the knack of saying what he wants you to hear. I doubt if the kid has ever told the unvarnished truth in his life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    From this thread or an older vendetta? I'd hope you'd give me a bit of leeway after Leger's astute observation about McCown's fumble six.
    I was responding to your specific statement. If you want to know what I think is a cheap shot, read your fucking post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    The real problem at this point is that we are not a young team anymore, particularly on defense. Three years ago, we were a young team, but not anymore. Banner and Lombardi did a number on that with FA while they were in control and the aging of the team has continued with Farmer. The chances of getting much better with the players we already have are becoming bleak.
    We've certainly got a veteran presence on defense, but not for the future. We're waiting on guys like Gilbert, Desir, Kirksey, Shelton, Orchard, Cooper, A. Bryant, K. Williams and Meder to take a leap and fit in - these are players getting opportunities, with the exception of Gilbert, to consistently play, and that's over half our defense. So I absolutely think we're still very much a young defense. Having a few stop gap players doesn't change that - especially when the veterans really aren't doing a whole lot to solidify their positions.

    But, again, we need more talent than we've got. Of that, I am certain, which is going to come at the expense of some of these veterans who aren't performing as we'd like to see. That's going to quickly take us back to being an entirely young team. Expect Tramon Williams, Donte Hitner, Karlos Dansby, Randy Starks, Desmond Bryant, Mingo/Solomon to all be overturned within the coming two or three years, as a result of being off contract, cut or simply retired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    A more specific example is last week:

    McCown gets the ball after the Mingo INT, needs 5 yards, and goes backwards.
    Manning, who is having a terrible game, finds a way to string a few plays together in the end.
    I think its unnecessary and somewhat illogical to try and build some type of causal relationship justifying the playing of Manziel through a critique of McCown's play. They can, and actually are, mutually exclusive.

    McCown didn't call a toss sweep to Turbin on 1st down leading to a four yard loss and putting the Denver defense in an obvious pass rush setting on 2nd down. The actual facts here are that McCown has played pretty respectable football most of this season. I would challenge anyone to have predicted we'd have the type of passing stats through 7 games with our league craptastic rankings in rush offense and rush defense (the TWO focal points of this offseason).

    Any fair, objective evaluation of our 5 losses this year would be hard pressed to pin them on poor QB play. We really haven't had poor QB play including both McCown and Manziel's contributions. Its really been the lone bright spot of our season.

    So, why the smashing of McCown? Why the creation of narratives such as the Gabriel fumble thing or even (sorry Ocon I love ya but..) the "McCown screwed up the Mingo INT oppy"? Doesn't make any sense to me.

    Separately, now that we are 2-5 and sucking air in so many other aspects the desire to see Manziel makes sense. I get it and look forward to seeing the kid play. However, to blast Pettine, Flip, and/or McCown for having put out a more than respectable passing offense through 7 weeks reeks of Manzealotism or even flat out football ignorance.

    This defense was supposed to be better this year. This running game was supposed to be better. If either of those things had actually transpired, we'd likely have a handful more wins and be in the playoff hunt. Sure, the Manzealots would still be pissed, but would any other brand of Browns fan be screaming "McCown's a waste"? He hasn't been the problem.

    Again, water under the bridge since even a top 10 passing offense hasn't been enough to get this team wins. Its likely Manziel time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    I called it a fumble-six many times, but never did I pin that on McCown. That was on Gabriel, and secondary blame to Benji for missing the block.
    Wasn't pointing at you mate. All good.

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    Yeah, just making sure. I was kind of proud of my "fumble-six' thingy.

    -----

    Cleveland.com's McCown take:

    Not good enough: McCown seemed too willing to settle for dinks and dunks during two drives, in particular, that produced first downs in Rams territory. Total points: six.

    The Rams forced the two McCown fumbles, but McCown ultimately is responsible for ball security.

    Bottom lines: McCown, while not dazzling, was functional against a quality defense on the road. He absorbed a beating but refused to fold. The collective performance of those around him left plenty to be desired. Nonetheless, McCown's offense produced six points and his team was soundly defeated.

    McCown's final grade: B-
    Last edited by OconRecon; 10-25-2015 at 08:59 PM.
    2017 Draft: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 EXTRA Draft picks: a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), a 5th (Chiefs/Cam) - 12 total
    2019 EXTRA picks: 7th rnd (w/ Coates)
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)

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