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Thread: Game Day thread vs the Rams!

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    I was responding to your specific statement. If you want to know what I think is a cheap shot, read your fucking post.
    Ah, you stinging from self-identifying as a fanboy? I wasn't pointing that stick at you but if you think the shoe fits....

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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    Yeah, just making sure. I was kind of proud of my "fumble-six' thingy.

    -----

    Cleveland.com's take:

    Not good enough: McCown seemed too willing to settle for dinks and dunks during two drives, in particular, that produced first downs in Rams territory. Total points: six.

    The Rams forced the two McCown fumbles, but McCown ultimately is responsible for ball security.

    Bottom lines: McCown, while not dazzling, was functional against a quality defense on the road. He absorbed a beating but refused to fold. The collective performance of those around him left plenty to be desired. Nonetheless, McCown's offense produced six points and his team was soundly defeated.

    McCown's final grade: B-
    Just for posterity's sake, I wonder what grades were given to other units/players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    McCown just doesn't win games.

    He was 3 and 5 during career peak #1 in Chicago.
    He is 1 and 4 during career peak #2 in Cleveland.

    Call it bad luck, not his fault, shitty carma, whatever.

    It just doesn't happen for him. He's a sub .500 QB even when he plays well.

    A more specific example is last week:

    McCown gets the ball after the Mingo INT, needs 5 yards, and goes backwards.
    Manning, who is having a terrible game, finds a way to string a few plays together in the end.


    Vs the Titans, Manziel, with mundane numbers, put the game away with a bomb to Travis.

    Yes, I'm picking and choosing examples here, but Manning has historically been clutch and McCown hasn't.

    Manziel was known for rising to the occasion at A&M. Let's see if he can do it in the NFL. Need more starts to really know.
    Like Grey, I've gotta point at this one too.

    First play call was silly. A toss to the outside to the running back who'd been on the team practicing for a week. Turbin bobbled it and took a hit for a loss. That was silly by Flip. Too cute. Let that big fuck run it right up the guts, not chuck him looking for the outside.

    Second play was absolutely brilliant by Denver. The DE came on an inside stunt around the back of the NT. Mack didn't see it coming and commit to the NT double which allowed the DE to come running through untouched as Mack desperately reached too late. They faked the blitz on the right which got Schwartz and Greco protecting the edge, so the hole was there. McCown didn't have a throw, the play was a little pseudo-screen to Dray, and the play had not yet developed.

    Then, on the 3rd down, nobody was open. They defended it perfectly. McCown tried to take off running but there was nothing. It wasn't a pretty result, but if he forced a pass in overtime, people would have been pissed - especially if it resulted in a mistake.

    That drive really wasn't on McCown at all. One failed run, one blown up play due to a great call by Denver and one perfectly defended 3rd and long in which nobody was open.

    The thing with McCown is, he's being asked to win in these circumstances. Manning was able to generate plays thanks to two elite receivers, a rushing game that carved us and a dominant defense who generated plays when it mattered most. It just feels so very Cleveland - point at the quarterback and put it all on him, even if it's not fair, and then be upset if anyone has the audacity to suggest that, hey, the entire team sucks, let's not blame the guy who sucked a heck of a lot less than most of our players.

    It's true, McCown couldn't do enough to win the last two weeks, but holy fuck has he got absolutely zero help from people around him who are 10x more detrimental to our chances of success than McCown ever was. Is it really, really so wrong to view our recent performances on a credit where credit is due scale?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    what grades were given to other units/players
    It seems the only A would go to Barny.

    Travis and Gabe would get D's for the fumbles at horrible times.

    RB's would get C's.

    O line a C+

    2 cents.

    Here's the link: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...medium=twitter

    They point out many things were not McCown's fault. It's just hard to give a QB a good grade with zero TD's.
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    I hope my points aren't viewed as hating on McCown. The guy is super likable.

    It just doesn't happen for him.

    Or how about this. You can't wholesale change the WR core, RB core, or O line. You can change the QB and McCown's beat up as hell anyway.

    It's Johnny time.
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    In regards to the post I made about Denver's pass rush on our second play of the drive following Mingo's interception, I just saw Barnidge make a highlight catch on our website, and the exact same thing happened. Clearly they watched the tape and decided to give it a crack themselves, and once again it worked. Luckily, McCown was able to get it off and Barnidge made an insane catch, but this is what I'm talking about.

    http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media...3-0fd71d2207a6

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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    It seems the only A would go to Barny.

    Travis and Gabe would get D's for the fumbles at horrible times.

    RB's would get C's.

    O line a C+

    2 cents.

    Here's the link: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...medium=twitter

    They point out many things were not McCown's fault. It's just hard to give a QB a good grade with zero TD's.
    Rushing ATT YDS TD LG
    R. Turbin 5 30 0 22
    J. McCown 4 21 0 9
    D. Johnson 6 17 0 10
    I. Crowell 8 9 0 8
    J. Manziel 1 5 0 5

    <100 yds rushing. Failing grade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Ah, you stinging from self-identifying as a fanboy? I wasn't pointing that stick at you but if you think the shoe fits....
    Regardless of who you were directing it to, I thought it was a cheap shot. And as for LD, I thought his posts in this thread have been rather mild. And even if they weren't, I agree with them. And, yes, I have wanted to see Manziel play for some time and particularly since the Tennessee game. McCown is a good guy, but he is not the future. I think Manziel might be.

    But I will admit something: after giving the matter some thought, while I think his recent reference to the GreyBduMaster was clever, I must admit that it was slightly "economical."

    Just understand that I am on the other side and I agree with the guys you call fanboys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sarge View Post
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    <100 yds rushing. Failing grade.
    Pretty much no bright spots offensively. Well, Barnidge is still an A.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
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    It's true, McCown couldn't do enough to win the last two weeks, but holy fuck has he got absolutely zero help from people around him who are 10x more detrimental to our chances of success than McCown ever was. Is it really, really so wrong to view our recent performances on a credit where credit is due scale?
    Granted. And McCown is a great guy and undoubtedly deserves better. But it really doesn't matter if McCown played well in a losing cause. He lost. Now if Manziel was to play well in a losing cause, it is different. That, at least, portends something positive for the future.

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    I love the GreyBduMaster reference. Gotta be clever if you're arguing a point you know isn't right against people more intelligent than you.

    The part I love most? If Johnny plays out the rest of the season, we'll go from being mocked to the voice of reason. Suddenly the absurd notion that the team sucks and we shouldn't individually blame the quarterback for everything, especially when the quarterback plays well in spite of everyone else sucking, will be something the Johnny fans will magically want to agree with now that it's their boy involved.

    Actually, I agree, the GreyBduMaster is too Pettine-spokesman, and the desire to see the entire team improve on weaknesses is just disgusting. I admit I was wrong, and my involvement was misguided. From this point on, starting against Arizona, I am going to change my ways and blame the quarterback entirely, even if he plays well, for every loss and every little mistake. I don't care if the defense gives up 140 rushing yards per game, 4+ sacks per game, nobody gets open, 100 yards of penalties and every other issue that previously pissed me off. That shit is inconsequential. It's all on the quarterback, and you guys have my full support from now on.

    Should be fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    But it really doesn't matter if McCown played well in a losing cause. He lost. Now if Manziel was to play well in a losing cause, it is different..
    I literally just died. Send flower to my mother and tell my girlfriend I thoroughly appreciate her letting me touch her boobs as much as I did. I have a few grand hidden in a money box in my bedroom, donate it all to the BDU party fund. Get drunk in my honor, swear at strangers, punch a Ratbird fan and make it rain on some agreeable young exotic dancers who'll do errythang for a hundy.

    BDU, 1991 - 2015, floored from such brutal honestly that is greatly appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
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    I love the GreyBduMaster reference. Gotta be clever if you're arguing a point you know isn't right against people more intelligent than you.

    The part I love most? If Johnny plays out the rest of the season, we'll go from being mocked to the voice of reason. Suddenly the absurd notion that the team sucks and we shouldn't individually blame the quarterback for everything, especially when the quarterback plays well in spite of everyone else sucking, will be something the Johnny fans will magically want to agree with now that it's their boy involved.

    Actually, I agree, the GreyBduMaster is too Pettine-spokesman, and the desire to see the entire team improve on weaknesses is just disgusting. I admit I was wrong, and my involvement was misguided. From this point on, starting against Arizona, I am going to change my ways and blame the quarterback entirely, even if he plays well, for every loss and every little mistake. I don't care if the defense gives up 140 rushing yards per game, 4+ sacks per game, nobody gets open, 100 yards of penalties and every other issue that previously pissed me off. That shit is inconsequential. It's all on the quarterback, and you guys have my full support from now on.

    Should be fun.
    Yup, let's see now:

    1. Straw man argumentation
    2. Ad hominem attacks
    3. Arguing facts out of context and ignoring previous background
    4. Smug self satisfied air about him


    Check, check, check, and check, sounds like the GreyBduMaster!

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    Quote Originally Posted by legerdemain View Post
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    Yup, let's see now:

    1. Straw man argumentation
    2. Ad hominem attacks
    3. Arguing facts out of context and ignoring previous background
    4. Smug self satisfied air about him


    Check, check, check, and check, sounds like the GreyBduMaster!
    I've come to know "Strawman arguement" as "Okay, I can't respond, so I'm going to say you took it all out of context and you're smug so I still have a reply but I don't have to reply to the points raise."

    I love that you're bitching about ad hominem attacks while you've made a nickname to attack three different posters personally simply because of the stance they've taken. You know what a hypocrite is, right? Dumbass.

    Why don't you try again when you get on my level? That's not smug, it's infinite swagger. In the words of Kanye West, I gahhhd it.

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    I think there is a little difference if Manziel looks good in a loss as we don't know his ceiling.

    We know McCown's long track record of either terrible play or damn good play that yields a losing record.

    But really, what I like about Manziel's one start this year, is that he didn't put up great numbers, but did do the game sealing drive thing. He put someone away. A "you can't coach that" vintage Manziel bomb.

    It's just one game, but that's why I want to see more of the 2015 Manziel. Being 2-5 with a banged up McCown also plays into it.

    I totally dig McCown in a bunch of ways, but the stars have aligned for a Manziel start.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Don't stir the pot here Shep. I hate that shit. You know damn well that I'm a fanboy.

    What I won't stand for is bullshit posts like the one stating McCown created the turnover on Gabriel's fumble.

    Pardon me if on game day I'm more interested in winning than "seeing what x player can do". I'm pissed we played like shit today and the QB position wasn't the problem. So, when the folks who only show up to talk Manziel jump on the pile, I get a little edgey.
    Right on Grey: This game was not about QB play. This team played like crap. Josh was getting beat-up all day, yes he had two fumbles, one was his fault, one was the pathetic line's fault. Gabriel didn't secure the ball and it got punched out.
    Pettine is suppose to be a defensive guru, but the defense is terrible. Some of it is the players, but some of it is coaching or lack of.
    Do you realize that Shelton did not have a tackle of assist today, that concerns me.
    Start Manziel the rest of the season. The coaching staff must decide if he's the man or not.
    I'm sorry to keep saying this, but the up-coming draft is a very good one for QBs. I don't know if Farmer or Pettine is capable of selecting the right player for the Browns.

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    I really find the whole attack on the internet thing amusing
    if no one got your bank details, your address, your employers cell phone...you weren't "attacked"
    someone disagreed...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambler View Post
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    Do you realize that Shelton did not have a tackle of assist today, that concerns me.
    My humble, or smug, opinion is that it's a result of circumstance.

    Shelton is very raw. He's struggling with the speed and strength of blockers. He'll get accustomed to it, it takes a year, yet in spite of those typical rookie struggles, teams are scared of him. He's constantly getting doubled and it's leaving our defensive ends in one on one situations that they are incapable of winning.

    That's our fucking problem. We suck at the DE position, and outside linebacker isn't any different.

    I haven't seen the game today, but Starks and Desmond Bryant both had sacks. Nice, finally, yet they were the ONLY tackles those two made. How fucked up that our starting defensive ends, in constant one on one situations, only had a single tackle each that came as a result of sacks. That means they didn't make any tackles in the rushing game.

    Our three outside linebackers in Kruger, Orchard and Armonty Bryant had two tackles, both of them Armonty. Armonty also had a tackle assist while Kruger and Orchard had three combined tackles assists.

    So, between Kruger, Orchard, Des Bryant and Randy Starks - none of them made a solo run stopping effort. The same for Xavier Cooper, who had two assists but no solo tackles. The same for John Hughes, one tackle assist. That's SIX players, and none of them made an individual tackle against the run. Again, I've not seen the game, but I will be stunned if I watch those SIX players not make a fucking tackle against the run but come away impressed.

    Once again, our team was led by the safeties and inside linebackers, because teams are constantly getting past the defensive line in the running game.

    This notion we have one of the most talented defensive lines, much less a viably talented defensive line, is the best stand-up comedy act I've seen since Eddie Murphy's Delirious.

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    Only thing was McCown didn't look that good out there at all... Unless I watched a different game than you guys.

    Don't worry, I'm just grinding my axe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    Only thing was McCown didn't look that good out there at all... Unless I watched a different game than you guys.

    Don't worry, I'm just grinding my axe.
    I agree 100%

    his stat line looked good, however he didnt.

    We were 3 out of 12 on third down conversions.. thats bad.

    6.9 yards per passing play including sacks... ouch

    2 fumbles...

    He looked "meh"

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Shelton is waste of pick.

    Mccown thru a pick at end of regulation against denver remember so yes he fucked us. We shoulda never went to OT. He wented MCCOWN!!! Duhhh we were in fg range or cpl yards away with 1 minute left and he throws pick. Dont gimme that fucking shit. Him and pettine cost us game vs undefeated Broncos. He cant finish games. He never has been a winner ever even in his best stretch of his life. He has played waayyyy better then i thought he would since coming back. I will give it to him, but he had 2 fumbles and lost both today. He missed wide open hawkins like PGL said on 3rd down in our own endzone and ran to get few yards so we could have better punt. That was first down if he throws it... Look at it again.... I think when schwartz and thomas both got false starts and we in endzone. Mccown has played well and showed manziel how to read defense and make easy throws to get first downs and move chains and extend drives. But.....manziel now has to face cardinals and bengals and hardest schedule in nfl rest of season and he didnt get any reps with offense all summer. We should have had manziel playing and working on scramble drills so lineman know how to block longer and move with him....and wr to go deep or come back to him.

    Crowell needs sat. He has had shitty season flat out. He onllyyyy getting annnyyyy carries bc he had a good year last year. 2015 crowell had been worst starting rb in expansion browns era.

    Zbs is shitty for us right now. No holes. We need to pull guards,mack, and motion te to hole.

    Shelton is a bust. Waayyyy overrated and he isnt doing shit in this scheme. Not 1 tackle today. Poyer 11 with fumble rec. Kirksey with 8. Mingo with 0 kruger with 1. Des bryant needs cut. Mack needs cut. Bowe needs cut. Bibbs needs to start with barny. We need to get a bigger stronger wr for 50 50s and blocking.

    Manziel is our qb and mccown shouldnt have even taken a snap all year barring injury. Again pettine failure.... Pettine could get one more year if he got manziel experience for next year but nope.

    Haden is still young, but he might as well sit the rest of year till hes healthy or for rest of season. Desir gor toasted today.... Bad. Gilbert needs to play......SOMEWHERE. Cb safety nickle or wr. He needs play wr atleast 15 snaps a game. We need end arounds with pulling bitonio to lead way. Pettine cant use the talent we got. We shoulda tried to get revis and brandon marshall long term. Cut des bryant....and Mack. Never signed bowe and tramon williams and we have the money.

    Ezekiel elliot is what we need if joey bosa isnt available. Id trade back up for Adulphous washington too and move to. 4 3. Kruger washington shelton cooper.

    Braxton miller is a must. He is a playmaker. He can play qb or wildcat.... If manziel dont work id try miller out. No point in drafting qb until manziel gets two years fully from camp to finish. 32 straight starts with same scheme.

    Gordon back.
    We need doctson from tcu michael thomas or braxton from osu.

    If not ezekiel this year then fournette next year...idc if it costs 3 1sts. We need to take for sure playmakers quit taking busts from weak teams weak conferences that had weak seasons. Gilbert had shitty jr year....manziel is only first round baller we got. He is gonna make believers out of all u haters by end of this year....and especially next year when we takes us to playoffs or maybe superbowl.


    Urban meyer needs to be called right after he wins title this year.


    Mike pettine needs fired immediately and flip hired as interim. Or pettine demoted to dc and Oneil fired.


    This season is over.....unless manziel duke jr and benji m barny can blow up


    No huddle.... Let manziel be johnny 🏈 fuckin football.

    And try anything

    Gilbert offense
    Poyer as starter
    Whitner at lb
    Mingo at ilb

    Try 4 3 now...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    I can't wait until either Manziel turns into a great QB or flames the fuck out. Either way, I'll be done having to come on here only to read dipshit, QB fanboy posts fixated on a backup QB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    I agree 100%

    his stat line looked good, however he didnt.

    We were 3 out of 12 on third down conversions.. thats bad.

    6.9 yards per passing play including sacks... ouch

    2 fumbles...

    He looked "meh"
    Wow. I go away for a week and all the McCown love seems to have vanished ... as I predicted it would once the Browns started playing some real football teams.

    McCown deserves a lot of credit for getting the most out of his limited abilities, but his lack of good side vision and inability to see rushing blitzers is his achilles heel, leading to so many fumbles year after year. He also won't be an accurate thrower over the course of a season and has trouble with the deep ball. Browns didn't go deep yesterday -- outside of Benjamin the wide receiving crops is a joke and they desperately need a big, fast, athletic, sure-handed receiver to complement Benjamin. Just look at the impact Brandon Marshall has made for the Jets this year, or Cooper for the Raiders. Incredible.
    Last edited by AttackOffense; 10-26-2015 at 07:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambler View Post
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    Right on Grey: This game was not about QB play. This team played like crap. Josh was getting beat-up all day, yes he had two fumbles, one was his fault, one was the pathetic line's fault. Gabriel didn't secure the ball and it got punched out.
    Pettine is suppose to be a defensive guru, but the defense is terrible. Some of it is the players, but some of it is coaching or lack of.
    Do you realize that Shelton did not have a tackle of assist today, that concerns me.
    Start Manziel the rest of the season. The coaching staff must decide if he's the man or not.
    I'm sorry to keep saying this, but the up-coming draft is a very good one for QBs. I don't know if Farmer or Pettine is capable of selecting the right player for the Browns.
    This team's woes, above all, come down to two things: 1) a reflection of a bad GM who doesn't know how to evaluate players in the draft or free agency and doesn't understand offensive football; and, 2), a mediocre head coach who picked a friend, O'Neill, to coach his defense who is a guy in over his head as an NFL defensive coordinator.

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