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Thread: Manziel Time, Take 2

  1. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    We're struggling PGL as fans. No doubt. I think we all want continuity but performances like Sunday's don't breed it.

    Farmer's in the soup too. After all he was gift wrapped four first round picks in his initial two drafts and on Sunday only one was actually starting. No matter how much disconnect there is between a GM and a HC, the GM has to own that.
    Right, the lone started has not had the impact we thought. If Pettine and Farmer are fired, can Haslam find a better coach and GM that will come to Cleveland?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    I know Farmer supports Manziel. I support Manziel and I want to see him play... and Im afraid with Farmer gone, Manziel may be traded away or cut before we even get to see him.


    I think theres a disconnect with Pettine on the Manziel front. I really do.

    In addition to that, LA even said, Pettine has been hand in hand with the personnel decisions with Farmer (as in Farmer has been getting the players Pettine wants (or type of players, however you interpret it). Pettine has co-signed this stuff.
    Dude, you should have just left it at the first line.

    Pettine does not have a hand in drafting. People just try to blame him for the very reason you originally stated - He's the Manziel scapegoat, and Manziel needs Farmer to survive. That's why after every failed Farmer pick, there is some random story about how Pettine beat up Ray and made the poor guy make the pick.

    I remember a lot of the rumors, like this one from Jason La Canfora - "Browns will be exploring both Stevie Johnson, who has ties to coaching staff, and Dwayne Bowe." Tell me, who won that one? Did Ray Farmer get his guy from KC, or did Pettine get his guy? Browns also expressed interest in Andre Holmes, who had 700 yard with Flip in Oakland last season. (Note, shit like this is why people hate La Canfora - When he gets it right, it doesn't make wonderboy Farmer look like a "Genius.")

    What about when Pettine wanted Revis? Arthur Moats? Trent Cole? Shit, there is more. We know he wanted Hoyer but didn't get him. It makes me wonder what he felt about losing Sheard, Taylor, Rubin, Skrine. That defense you shit on Pettine lost a lot of players, lost out on a lot more and to anyone with functioning eye vision is playing like total shit on their own accord.

    Like I started out saying, you should have just left it. It was the first honest thing you've said in months. You'd rather watch this team lose talent and gain none at the hands of Farmer because you want Johnny that bad. But don't make up shit about how it's anyone else's fault. Farmer blows on his own accord.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambler View Post
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    Right, the lone started has not had the impact we thought. If Pettine and Farmer are fired, can Haslam find a better coach and GM that will come to Cleveland?
    Odds are, and history shows, probably not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    Odds are, and history shows, probably not.
    I still have hope for Farmer. DeFilippo would be better than Pettine and would accept the job.
    Last edited by Brownsfan; 10-27-2015 at 09:17 PM.

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    Pettine needs demoted if he will take the demotion. Flip gets promotion.

    Farmer gets a draft to himself. Flip should tell him.....rb and wr. We need both....but joey bosa is there then duh.
    Connor cook
    Braxton miller
    Ezekiel elliot
    Washington if we trade down or up later


    Noah spence in late rounds. He would be great de for us.we have to get a paas rush and nasty dline to penetrate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambler View Post
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    If Pettine and Farmer are fired, can Haslam find a better coach and GM that will come to Cleveland?
    He can but will he ? the word is WAY out there. for good/great hires he must set and watch FootBall People work. the $$ is there ...but can he get out of their way ?
    If he just wants Yes men keep the ones he has those puppets will do anything to keep their jobs. that's a proven fact.
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    Sort of off topic, but if Pettine is fired, who do we go after?

    - I think Flip absolutely deserves an interview to make his case for a head coach vacancy.
    - Kevin Sumlin is an interesting one. Great record at two different schools, and he's got an existing relationship with Johnny if he's still part of Farmer/Haslam's plan.
    - Carolina's DC, Sean McDermott, is apparently a highly respected figure who is viewed as the next favorite to make the leap.
    - Gase is still hanging around in Chicago.
    - Josh McDaniels gets love, but I don't trust it, and he apparently wanted nothing to do with Cleveland pre-Pettine hiring.

    Nobody really gets me hard, to be honest.

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    Kevin Sumlin is at the top of my list. lol... I mean that lombardi loving reporter who we dont mention the name of said if Farme rhad it his way he'd hire him in a heartbeat.

    I still like Gus Malzahn at Auburn.

    Josh Mcdaniels is a pipe dream, the reason he didnt interview here, is because he was promised the Patriots Job once Belicheck retires, but I do like him.

    Chip Kelley if he gets fired.

    Sean Payton if he gets fired.

    Jason Garrett if he gets fired.

    I'd interview Chan Gailey

    Mike Shula

    Steve Wilks

    Jon Gruden



    Id start there

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    Kevin Sumlin is at the top of my list. lol... I mean that lombardi loving reporter who we dont mention the name of said if Farme rhad it his way he'd hire him in a heartbeat.

    I still like Gus Malzahn at Auburn.

    Josh Mcdaniels is a pipe dream, the reason he didnt interview here, is because he was promised the Patriots Job once Belicheck retires, but I do like him.

    Chip Kelley if he gets fired.

    Sean Payton if he gets fired.

    Jason Garrett if he gets fired.

    I'd interview Chan Gailey

    Mike Shula

    Steve Wilks

    Jon Gruden



    Id start there
    I don't think Malzahn is ready for the NFL. Stay away form Chip Kelly.

    I think the biggest problem is talent evaluation in the draft and free agency and we need a GM who can do that well.

    But we also need a head coach who understands the modern NFL and the importance of having explosive talent at the skill positions of RB, QB and WR, building an offense that can consistently move the chains and be effective in the red zone, where the current Browns team flounders. And we need a GM/Coach tandem that does a much better job of aligning talent with scheme. Right now we have a bunch of OLBs who are not strong against the run and not particularly effective rushing the passer, either.

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    Manziel is not to be reprimanded by the NFL, per Rappaport...

    so lets put that baby to bed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    Manziel is not to be reprimanded by the NFL, per Rappaport...

    so lets put that baby to bed.
    Good news. Manziel needs to find lady friends who don't need to drink alcohol to enjoy life.

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    I've long been a proponent of blowing it up if it seems like it isn't improving within a year and a half.

    There are too many coaches out there that can turn a bad team into a good one, to stick with a shitty one for long.

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    Default Spend like Dan Gilbert

    Jon Gruden
    Bill Cowher

    or for cheaper
    Norv Turner - did he get stabbed as he left ?
    Always remember sports are like women:
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    Quote Originally Posted by pl4tinum View Post
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    I've long been a proponent of blowing it up if it seems like it isn't improving within a year and a half.

    There are too many coaches out there that can turn a bad team into a good one, to stick with a shitty one for long.
    We have a winner!! I really hope that should the Pettine lead Browns continue this collapse (and make no mistake, it is a collapse) Haslem cuts ties quickly. Farmer can stay, Pettine was a Banner hire, but we have seen Mike Pettine 1.0 is not NFL ready or worthy. Talented coaches make a mark quickly, change cultures, get players to buy in and win. Continuity is really overrated, especially when your losing. Also, the next hire NEEDS to an offensive minded guy...period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brutalfacts View Post
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    Continuity is really overrated, especially when your losing.
    Teams with same head coach for at least the past five years:

    New England Patriots
    Cincinnati Bengals
    New York Giants
    Green Bay Packers
    New Orleans Saints
    Pittsburgh Steelers
    Baltimore Ravens
    Dallas Cowboys
    Seattle Seahawks

    Teams with new head coaches during past two years:

    Cleveland Browns
    Detroit Lions
    Houston Texans
    Minnesota Vikings
    Tampa Bay Buccaneers
    Tennessee Titans
    Washington Redskins
    Atlanta Falcons
    Buffalo Bills
    Chicago Bears
    Denver Broncos
    Miami Dolphins
    New York Jets
    Oakland Raiders
    San Francisco 49ers

    You tell me which list you want to be on.

    Browns coaches since '99:

    Palmer
    Davis
    Robiskie
    Crennel
    Mangini
    Shurmur
    Chut
    Pettine

    7 or 8 head coaches over 16 years depending on how you count and 1 playoff berth to show for it.

    Continuity can not be overestimated in terms of importance. Yes, you need the right guy, but firing a guy for losing isn't the best metric. Folks were trying to run Coughlin out of NY in 2006 and he's since gone on to won 2 championships.

    I'm not saying Pettine has proven he's a guy to stick with, but saying continuity is overrated is just a ridiculous statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmadworld View Post
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    Jon Gruden
    Bill Cowher

    or for cheaper
    Norv Turner - did he get stabbed as he left ?
    Norv was pissed when we fired Chud.. he went on a whole tirade about it. I dont think he and Haslam are friends anymore

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    There is only one conclusion to be drawn if Manziel doesn't play this week, given how banged up McCown is:

    Manziel is simply not as good -- RIGHT NOW -- as we all wish/hope he is, i.e., he is not yet better than Josh McCown.

    That's the only logical conclusion and not a dig at either guy. It must be the simple fact of the matter. Because to think that Pettine and Flip and O'Connell all are either a. stupid or b. blind or c. don't like their jobs, is just ignorant. Clearly, O'Connell in particular did not come to Cleveland to get fired after one year. Clearly, Pettine knows BETTER THAN ANYONE the risk/reward of having Manziel on the bench vs. on the field. And he continues to choose the bench for him.

    Despite all the conspiracy theories and wishes of the fans (myself included, btw), the principle of Occam's Razor is in effect: when all logical possibilities are accounted for, the simplest is likely true.

    Which means, given a. that Manziel is not playing plus b. the coaching staff in the lucrative professional football profession does not want to get fired = Manziel is not yet good enough to play at a high level.

    I know we all WANT that to be different because we are tired of watching Josh McCown (again, myself included) but the fact is that Josh McCown has been more than credible in his role.

    Yes, there are deficiencies in his game. No, he won't make the higlight reel plays. No, he doesn't scare defenses.

    But you know what he HAS done? He's made Gary Barnidge into freaking Rob Gronkowski. He's made Duke Johnson useful. He's been way more good than bad. And he's been every bit the warrior and leader that an NFL QB must be.

    I want to watch Johnny Manziel play, I admit it. I want to watch him do the spectacularly great and (more likely) the spectacularly stupid on the football field. I have decided that the Browns are going to lose, no matter which QB plays. I am okay with this.

    But I don't get paid based on if the Browns win or lose (well, except in Fan Duel, where they help me get paid by being the Browns . And I'm not the one risking limb and brain on Sundays.

    So if the guys actually killing themselves on Sundays (all too literally, it seems) want Josh, then I (grudgingly) accept.
    Last edited by damajuki; 10-29-2015 at 02:09 PM.

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    Mary Kay has a problem...

    She has a bee in her bonnet about this Manziel "domestic issue"

    Her tweets over the last 2 days come off like shes just BEGGING for him to get suspended or something. Shes covering it HARD.

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Dama...I agree with you....to a point.

    As we are dealing with multiple people...not just if Manziel or McCown is better...there is another potential 'reason' for McCown to remain the starter.

    Continuity.

    A QB and his OL, his WR's, his RB's all have to be not only on the same page, but on the same letter of the same word on that page....because one person being off can cause the entire play to blow up.

    To this point, outside of one previous week and this week, McCown has been the guy out there developing that continuity. Fine tuning the timing of the routes, the call of the snap count, the time he takes to throw the ball and from where he throws it. How he hands the ball off...where, when and how hard he puts it in the breadbasket.

    I know this all sounds trivial...but like I said...football is a game of timing and inches...and changing a QB affects all of that.

    That is why...even if it is a dead heat...a lot of coaches will err on the side of the guy with the reps.

    Manziel may light things up once he gets in there...but there likely will be a lot more plays that blow up as well. My guess, they wait until after Cinci...or after the bye...if they are planning a change at QB. And I did say "IF".

    (IMHO)
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
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    Teams with same head coach for at least the past five years:

    New England Patriots
    Cincinnati Bengals
    New York Giants
    Green Bay Packers
    New Orleans Saints
    Pittsburgh Steelers
    Baltimore Ravens
    Dallas Cowboys
    Seattle Seahawks

    Teams with new head coaches during past two years:

    Cleveland Browns
    Detroit Lions
    Houston Texans
    Minnesota Vikings
    Tampa Bay Buccaneers
    Tennessee Titans
    Washington Redskins
    Atlanta Falcons
    Buffalo Bills
    Chicago Bears
    Denver Broncos
    Miami Dolphins
    New York Jets
    Oakland Raiders
    San Francisco 49ers

    You tell me which list you want to be on.

    Browns coaches since '99:

    Palmer
    Davis
    Robiskie
    Crennel
    Mangini
    Shurmur
    Chut
    Pettine

    7 or 8 head coaches over 16 years depending on how you count and 1 playoff berth to show for it.

    Continuity can not be overestimated in terms of importance. Yes, you need the right guy, but firing a guy for losing isn't the best metric. Folks were trying to run Coughlin out of NY in 2006 and he's since gone on to won 2 championships.

    I'm not saying Pettine has proven he's a guy to stick with, but saying continuity is overrated is just a ridiculous statement.
    If you was a head coach, tell me which teams you would prefer to coach.

    Maybe these?

    New England Patriots
    Cincinnati Bengals
    New York Giants
    Green Bay Packers
    New Orleans Saints
    Pittsburgh Steelers
    Baltimore Ravens
    Dallas Cowboys
    Seattle Seahawks

    or would you prefer?

    Cleveland Browns
    Detroit Lions
    Houston Texans
    Minnesota Vikings
    Tampa Bay Buccaneers
    Tennessee Titans
    Washington Redskins
    Atlanta Falcons
    Buffalo Bills
    Chicago Bears
    Denver Broncos
    Miami Dolphins
    New York Jets
    Oakland Raiders
    San Francisco 49ers

    Your choice

  21. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by damajuki View Post
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    Manziel is simply not as good -- RIGHT NOW
    I'm thinking he won't ever have it then.

    If he can't overcome a beat up journeyman like McCown, while all the other QB's from the last two drafts lap him in over and over in time played, then maybe he just doesn't have it.

    I've said it before. I've never seen a team work so hard not to start it's first round QB. He had an admirable game vs a Jets team (QBR around 80), and we now know the Jets D is insanely good. He had a great game vs the Titians - QBR 133 and most importantly, slammed the door with 3 minutes left.

    Any first round player ought to be looked at as if he can contribute on day one.

    Yes, Rodgers sat for a while, but it at least made sense because he was behind an HOF'r.

    Maybe Manziel simply doesn't have it. At all. At any NFL time. It's another possible conclusion. At least in this staff's assessment.
    Last edited by OconRecon; 10-29-2015 at 03:15 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    Mary Kay has a problem...

    She has a bee in her bonnet about this Manziel "domestic issue"

    Her tweets over the last 2 days come off like shes just BEGGING for him to get suspended or something. Shes covering it HARD.
    Mary Kay needs to take her bonnet back to journalism school and learn how to do some real sports reporting...
    BROWNS 2017: ANALYTICS, IT'S NOT JUST SOMETHING YOU TRY IN THE BEDROOM ANYMORE!

    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldDawgCliff View Post
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    If you was a head coach, tell me which teams you would prefer to coach.

    Maybe these?

    New England Patriots
    Cincinnati Bengals
    New York Giants
    Green Bay Packers
    New Orleans Saints
    Pittsburgh Steelers
    Baltimore Ravens
    Dallas Cowboys
    Seattle Seahawks

    or would you prefer?

    Cleveland Browns
    Detroit Lions
    Houston Texans
    Minnesota Vikings
    Tampa Bay Buccaneers
    Tennessee Titans
    Washington Redskins
    Atlanta Falcons
    Buffalo Bills
    Chicago Bears
    Denver Broncos
    Miami Dolphins
    New York Jets
    Oakland Raiders
    San Francisco 49ers

    Your choice
    Yes, but the expectations are so much higher with the quality franchises. With the right GM and head coach the Browns easily could have been a contender this year with smart drafting/free agent signing and a smart strategic approach to building and coaching a team.
    If the Browns had drafted Mack, Carr and Matthews (or another quality receiver) last year and made a smart pick with the second first round pick this year that in itself could have meant a couple of more wins for this team in 2015.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    Mary Kay needs to take her bonnet back to journalism school and learn how to do some real sports reporting...
    Cabot is not all that good. You compare her against Paul Hoynes who covers baseball for the PD superbly and Cabot is a joke.

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