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Thread: MEGATHREADmania XXX

  1. #25
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    Meh, even though Manziel is a shit head, the decision to start McCown is wholly uninspiring.
    BROWNS 2017: I'M JASON LA CANFORA'S INSIDER
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    "Hue and the guys are gonna turn that Frankenstein into a Frankenfine!" - next2nothing on RGIII

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!


  2. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    Meh, even though Manziel is a shit head, the decision to start McCown is wholly uninspiring.
    I agree 100%....I'm just saying this isn't necessarily about being stubborn or stupid.

    One thing though...I never understood if you have a 'potential' QBOTF on the bench why people comment on 'giving up on the season'. I would hope that a second year guy with more physical skills would have the 'potential' to jump-start the team and 'save the season'.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



  3. #27
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    Well I have made my points clear as to both our QB's pros and cons but whereas my head understands the logic of starting McCown my heart hates the decision. It's not about throwing away the season, it's just to me about testing your prospect. Give Josh a week to get healthier, play Manziel. Maybe you're inviting controversy but I am skeptical that Manziel lights up Arizona to the point where we're going "Okay, you've got to play Johnny." He already had a good game and we went back to McCown so the precedent is set.
    BROWNS 2017: I'M JASON LA CANFORA'S INSIDER
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    "Hue and the guys are gonna turn that Frankenstein into a Frankenfine!" - next2nothing on RGIII

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!


  4. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgFan View Post
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    One thing though...I never understood if you have a 'potential' QBOTF on the bench why people comment on 'giving up on the season'. I would hope that a second year guy with more physical skills would have the 'potential' to jump-start the team and 'save the season'.
    Many have argued that is the case. Are Manziel's personal issues THAT much of a barrier? Other players have got playing time through worse... This is IMO why some suggest a vendetta on the part of the coach against the young QB, it's easier to rationalize...
    BROWNS 2017: I'M JASON LA CANFORA'S INSIDER
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    "Hue and the guys are gonna turn that Frankenstein into a Frankenfine!" - next2nothing on RGIII

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!


  5. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
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    Well I have made my points clear as to both our QB's pros and cons but whereas my head understands the logic of starting McCown my heart hates the decision. It's not about throwing away the season, it's just to me about testing your prospect. Give Josh a week to get healthier, play Manziel. Maybe you're inviting controversy but I am skeptical that Manziel lights up Arizona to the point where we're going "Okay, you've got to play Johnny." He already had a good game and we went back to McCown so the precedent is set.
    I hear ya, EE, but my head doesn't even understand the decision to play McCown at this point. It just feels like there isn't any point to what we are doing. What are we hoping to accomplish by starting Josh now, when the season is all but lost? At least I can understand the line of thought by playing Manziel. You're hoping that the young guy can provide a spark to (maybe but unlikely) save the season, or at the very least get him game experience and evaluate him moving forward so that we can determine what we need to do in the offseason. We can't afford to end this season with more unanswered questions about Johnny.

  6. #30
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    Well you've got to look at the Logic for Pettine. Remove the names...

    Do you play the Veteran QB who plays responsible QB, makes good decisions (on average) and is more efficient with the ball
    or
    Do you play the Rookie QB who has good skill, but shows a proneness to fumble the ball/be less responsible (to the point where playcalling is obviously more conservative)?

    Pettine has shown a propensity for conservatism, this is why the veteran option logically makes sense. Pettine is also an old school guy, McCown is named starting QB, and other than being mediocre but not terrible, he hasn't done anything to really merit losing the job. It's the same kind of arguments that Hoyer was getting last season more-or-less...

    I agree that we need to answer the Johnny question, the issue becomes when do you start exploring the research in order to do that?
    BROWNS 2017: I'M JASON LA CANFORA'S INSIDER
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    "Hue and the guys are gonna turn that Frankenstein into a Frankenfine!" - next2nothing on RGIII

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!


  7. #31
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    Yea. When you look at it from Pettine's perspective, it definitely makes more sense. I just don't know how they ever expect to bring on a young guy and make him better if they always want to go with the grizzled vet. Eventually this team has to develop a quarterback. I thought that was part of the reason they brought Flip in as the OC. Because he showed that he could develop quarterbacks as the Raiders QB coach last season. And when I hear Flip talk about Manziel, he always sounds so enthusiastic, like he sees all of this potential in him. I would love to see what he could do with him if they would just give him the chance to be the guy.

  8. #32
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    Well, one thing, Manziel is getting all the starter reps this week...and he has already shown vast improvement since last year.

    Also...keep the schedule in mind.

    This Sunday is Arizona...then a short week to Thursday night football IN Cincinnati. Then comes the 10 days off before Pittsburgh IN Pittsburgh.

    After that is they bye week...and three straight home games...two against teams with losing records.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



  9. #33
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    To be honest.. I'd rather not put Manziel in Vs. The Honeybadger and Patrick Peterson.. he needs POSITIVE momentum to get up to that challenge. I'd rather Mccown take thie licks there

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

  10. #34
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    If you don't start Manziel this week, don't start him vs cinci either.

    And then McCown will have a chance to get healthy during the bye week.


    Last edited by OconRecon; 10-28-2015 at 11:57 AM.
    2017 Draft class: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 Draft picks: Extra picks - a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), & a 6th (Steelers/Gilbert) - 12 total
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)
    Training Camp schedule: Rookies report 7/23, vets 7/26, 1st practice 7/27

  11. #35
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    To me, I'd rather watch a second year QB, learning the offense, struggle to drive the ball down field than a 13 year veteran. Maybe it's boredom, but I just cannot get over how watching McCown last week made me want to claw my eyes out. I have not had the fanfire/rage lit under my ass like that in years. Since Shurmur was our HC...
    BROWNS 2017: I'M JASON LA CANFORA'S INSIDER
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    "Hue and the guys are gonna turn that Frankenstein into a Frankenfine!" - next2nothing on RGIII

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!


  12. #36
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    I can respect the argument of wanting to put Johnny in the best possible situation to succeed. But to what end? He's going to have to face good teams. This is the NFL. And I agree with EE, It's hard to get excited about watching McCown play. I know the coaching staff and the team is in the business of winning -- not making the game exciting for the fans. But right now they aren't doing either.

  13. #37
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    Absolutely nothing has changed since the day manziel stepped foot in camp over a year ago.

    We weren't a team that could compete to win a super bowl then and we aren't now.

    it's never been about how hoyer or mccown played-that's always been irrelevant unless you actually thought either one of those guys could win a super bowl.

    Pettine and his enablers have put this franchise in ice.

    Sadly, we don't know how good manziel would be had he be invested in from day 1. Hell, or day 400.

    the boatshoes was/is right.

    Not playing manziel has gotten us nothing.

    We would be in a better situation today had he played/sink or swim/good or bad.

  14. #38
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    The Boat Shoes doesn't seem to understand the concept of how a depth chart works... Starting QB's, regardless of mediocrity, don't lose their jobs willy nilly if they are playing well or winning. (McCown, playing "Well" with top 10 stats, although misleading and Hoyer well he was winning before he lost the job to Manziel and we know how that went)

    Playing Manziel last year would've been disastrous for his confidence and could have shattered the team's vision in him as well, given how he was clearly not to a performance standard due to alcohol and whatever else. It's a mute point now... Not playing him now, well I just don't see the sense in it. He deserves a shot. How many more stinkers does McCown have to throw up, I'm thinking after a possible loss to Arizona, the idea may be more appealing IF McCown escapes unscathed that is.

    I get it, but I just think your all-or-nothing approach is a bit narrow sighted, perhaps the opposite spectrum of our coach's propensity to ride the veteran QB for the aforementioned reasons (see: my other posts).
    BROWNS 2017: I'M JASON LA CANFORA'S INSIDER
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    "Hue and the guys are gonna turn that Frankenstein into a Frankenfine!" - next2nothing on RGIII

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!


  15. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangelo930 View Post
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    I can respect the argument of wanting to put Johnny in the best possible situation to succeed. But to what end? He's going to have to face good teams. This is the NFL. And I agree with EE, It's hard to get excited about watching McCown play. I know the coaching staff and the team is in the business of winning -- not making the game exciting for the fans. But right now they aren't doing either.
    Maybe you give McCown until the bye week at game 10 and re-evaluate then. If the Browns are 3-7 or 2-8 at the break, I personally think it makes sense to turn to Manziel to assess what you got before the 2016 draft.

  16. #40
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    2017 Draft class: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 Draft picks: Extra picks - a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), & a 6th (Steelers/Gilbert) - 12 total
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)
    Training Camp schedule: Rookies report 7/23, vets 7/26, 1st practice 7/27

  17. #41
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    I'm Josh McCown... I just need walk-throughs to get ready. Lah de dah!

    ...sorry, still salty :P
    BROWNS 2017: I'M JASON LA CANFORA'S INSIDER
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    "Hue and the guys are gonna turn that Frankenstein into a Frankenfine!" - next2nothing on RGIII

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!


  18. #42
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    I dont know man..

    I feel like this is last year on replay.

    By the time Johnny does get to take this team over. We will be in moral victory mode and any fire they have will be gone. He needs to be in while they're still playing for something.

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

  19. #43
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    What do we have to play for? We are 2-5... IMO we could at best salvage a 6 win season, sure all the games are winnable but .500 seems out of the question at this point, the way we're playing. On one hand, you want to 'protect' Johnny but on the other you don't see the point in delaying his ascension. Come on PGL, you can't have it both ways.
    BROWNS 2017: I'M JASON LA CANFORA'S INSIDER
    "I just do not get worked up over games anymore. I realized some time ago there is no point in getting worked up over them. I have no control over the outcome, it has no impact on me personally, and I have little to no actual facts to work from on properly analyzing the results." - Masters

    "My Mother's day card always says "Mum, I love you less than I love Joe Thomas. You can't even block, for fuck sakes." - brownsdownunder

    "Don't try to make me feel dumb for my opinion. You can kiss my ass." - MalcolmBrown

    "Hue and the guys are gonna turn that Frankenstein into a Frankenfine!" - next2nothing on RGIII

    WOOF WOOF WOOF!


  20. #44
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    I mean.. we have 9 games left..

    If we can win 7 of 9...

    thats a 9-7 record and we might make the playoffs.


    Im saying give Johnny the chance to make the best out of a bad situation and take us there while we still have a chance!


    I guess I want to win this weekend.. but have Josh perform to the point where Johnny would need to come in afterwards and take over.. if that makes sense.

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    I mean.. we have 9 games left..

    If we can win 7 of 9...

    thats a 9-7 record and we might make the playoffs.


    Im saying give Johnny the chance to make the best out of a bad situation and take us there while we still have a chance!


    I guess I want to win this weekend.. but have Josh perform to the point where Johnny would need to come in afterwards and take over.. if that makes sense.
    I completely understand what you are saying. That is a VERY specific set of circumstances to look forward to. And after hearing Pettine's press conference today, whether we like it or not, Johnny is never going to start for this team as long as they are in playoff contention AT ALL this season. Pettine wants McCown starting, period.

  22. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    I feel like this is last year on replay.
    Me too. We don't believe the current guy is the long term answer and we're not winning. It's just coming earlier this year.

    You don't need big QB numbers. You just need to do it when it counts.

    Here's a late game mid-field play. It's 3&6 with a few minutes to go. Come on Browns. Just a first down or two. Or heck, a bomb for a TD will do too. Done.

    2017 Draft class: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 Draft picks: Extra picks - a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), & a 6th (Steelers/Gilbert) - 12 total
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)
    Training Camp schedule: Rookies report 7/23, vets 7/26, 1st practice 7/27

  23. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    I mean.. we have 9 games left..

    If we can win 7 of 9...

    thats a 9-7 record and we might make the playoffs.


    Im saying give Johnny the chance to make the best out of a bad situation and take us there while we still have a chance!


    I guess I want to win this weekend.. but have Josh perform to the point where Johnny would need to come in afterwards and take over.. if that makes sense.
    I really wonder what kind of health McCown will have going in to Sunday's game. I don't feel good about that. But this is a winnable game. Arizona has a lot of good players but they play kinda flat at times. The danger is that the Arizona secondary is so athletic and the Browns receiving corps, except for Benjy, is pretty mediocre. Browns could win IF they find a running game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    I dont know man..

    I feel like this is last year on replay.

    By the time Johnny does get to take this team over. We will be in moral victory mode and any fire they have will be gone. He needs to be in while they're still playing for something.
    This is a lot like last year. Easy early schedule fools people and then once they start playing good teams over .500 it begins to unravel. The Browns' two wins are against teams with 1-5 records.

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