Page 3 of 16 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 49 to 72 of 368

Thread: MEGATHREADmania XXX

  1. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    1,932
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Manziel wont start while pettine coach of this team.

    I bet manziel is traded probably due to his own demands or cut.

    Id refuse to come back to cleveland if i was him in 2016 unless pettine gone and whoever coach is says manziel is the guy.

    He needs to be the guy 100percent and get a franchise to build around him.

    Pettine wants to run....no turnovers n play d.

    Well we cant run.
    We been turning over the ball and having tons of costly penalties.

    And our defense is flat trash.


    Pettines way.....hasnt worked.
    Two years.... No playoffs. Gotten extremely worse. And the lockerroom hates him.

    Players arent excited to play. Thwy dont believe mccown can win....

  2. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Oklahoma City, Ok.
    Posts
    980
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Meh, even though Manziel is a shit head, the decision to start McCown is wholly uninspiring.
    You guys are good, some very good points. I'm repeating myself. I'm not a Manziel guy, but I don't understand why you wouldn't start him against zona. For one, Josh hasn't practiced and his shoulder is not going to be healed by Sunday. You're actually putting him in danger of being injured again. And this is the perfect opportunity to see what JM can do without benching Josh. (injury) You can't save JM to play against an easy team, there are no easy teams. My fear is that the Browns are going to pass on a good QB in the draft, and JM doesn't pan out because he didn't play enough to get a true evaluation.

  3. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Dublin, OH
    Posts
    7,838
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Listening to Pat Kirwan on NFL radio a couple hours ago. I generally like his takes and his resume is chock full of NFL experience.

    A Cleveland caller dialed in and did an admirable job of expressing his frustration and that of the broader fan base. Years of ineptitude, losing, turnover, etc.

    He posed the question about the QB position and his view that we should be starting Manziel this week and going forward. Kirwan (paraphrasing) said he's not starting because he's not better than the guy in front of him. He went on to say the QB position has been the least of the Browns problems this year.

    That has been a pretty consistent take from actual NFL types from what I've read and heard when asked about this conundrum of ours.

    I honestly think we have a syndrome as a fanbase. We're actually willing to concede the season (some, like BS, were willing to concede the last two) just to see if the QB we drafted might not be the answer. To give Boat some credit, that may have been "right" in the long run, but its a fantasy scenario. The 53 players on that roster, the dozens of coaches, the front office personnel, and everyone connected to football operations have one objective every year: field the best team possible.

    The reality with Manziel is likely one of three options in my view:

    1) He's really progressed. He's close to McCown and McCown's only "held him off" so to speak through his relatively strong play.
    2) He's progressed but he's still a meaningful gap away from McCown. This gap is further magnified through McCown's solid play.
    3) He's not the guy.

    I think its ridiculous to assert that he's clearly demonstrated he's a better QB (a fourth option I guess). There's no real foundation on which to make this assessment and you'd have to explain why an entire professional football organization is purposefully playing a lesser talent. It really makes no sense at all.

    So, if its scenario 1 we could see Manziel get the nod at any time. Maybe the staff has a timetable they are working on (they've alluded to as much). Maybe McCown's play has simply extended the waiting period. Maybe Pettine and Flip are making a mistake here. Certainly possible.

    If its scenario 2 (my best guess), there's just no way to make the switch right now. Ask yourself how you would address the other 52 guys? "Gang, I'm going to put the younger guy with a potentially higher ceiling in. Its a long term thing for the organization. Yeah, I know some of you aren't getting any younger, but we're moving into developmental mode barring Johnny just miraculously being great from the AZ game on." I think this is the fundamental difference between us as fans and the organization itself: you can't run a football team this way. Its the ultimate meritocracy and that's preached by all 32 teams, all the time. You'd lose all credibility; you'd lose the "team".

    Scenario 3 just sucks and I hope its not the reality. There are lots of NFL types that intimate this one though. Kirwan expressed his doubts about Manziel dating back to his draft class days.

  4. #52
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,453
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I honestly think we have a syndrome as a fanbase. We're actually willing to concede the season (some, like BS, were willing to concede the last two) just to see if the QB we drafted might not be the answer. To give Boat some credit, that may have been "right" in the long run, but its a fantasy scenario. The 53 players on that roster, the dozens of coaches, the front office personnel, and everyone connected to football operations have one objective every year: field the best team possible.
    I disagree that the "objective" is to "field the best team possible."

    The objective should be to build a winning franchise. To build a team that competes at the highest level. To build a team that wins division titles.

    That said. . . I don't disagree completely with the way the Browns have so far handled JFF. McCown's play has hopefully rubbed a little wisdom into JFF's head. Perhaps it's better long-term for JFF to sit and watch. That remains to be seen.

    But this idea that the Browns have to play McCown over Manziel because he's a little better is hogwash, that the other players will become depressed because their 2-5 team decides to see how far one of their 1st round draft picks from season before last has come.

    The Browns are not going to make the playoffs with McCown at QB. McCown will never lead the Browns to a division title. Sometime this season, the Browns need to find out if JFF can be the man.

    Let's face it, we beat the 1-5 Titans (barely) and the 1-6 Ravens (really barely).

    Do you, Greythan, believe the team should play to get as many wins as possible, damn the future? Or do you believe the franchise needs to play with a focus on building for the future?

  5. #53
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    747
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...isa_friel.html

    Interesting article by Mary Kay. Johnny met with NFL investigators tonight. Hopefully this process goes quickly and we can put it behind us. Let's hope Johnny keeps his nose clean and his name out of the tabloids for the rest of the season.

  6. #54
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Dublin, OH
    Posts
    7,838
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I disagree that the "objective" is to "field the best team possible."

    The objective should be to build a winning franchise. To build a team that competes at the highest level. To build a team that wins division titles.
    This is an interesting question and I'd love to hear the unfiltered reaction to this by owners, GM's, and coaches.

    I think its safe to say the objective each week is to win the game. What did Herm Edwards famously say? "We play to win the game." Most of us probably played sports at some points in our lives. I know for me personally I wanted to win every time out regardless of my position in the standings/rankings/etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    But this idea that the Browns have to play McCown over Manziel because he's a little better is hogwash, that the other players will become depressed because their 2-5 team decides to see how far one of their 1st round draft picks from season before last has come.

    The Browns are not going to make the playoffs with McCown at QB. McCown will never lead the Browns to a division title. Sometime this season, the Browns need to find out if JFF can be the man.
    Why is it hogwash? I think you'd have one hell of a time standing up in front of the other 52 saying "We want to see how far one of our 1st round picks can take us". Going back to my previous comments, I think any athlete worth his salt would want the best 10 guys around him.

    Now, the specific point in time on a schedule probably plays into this quite heavily. We aren't even half way through the year yet. That's probably a factor whether you, I, or even the people inside the organization (players, coaches, etc) think the playoffs are out of the question. Again, as competitors the players are likely thinking they can clean up a few things and rip off a bunch of wins. I'm not saying its a correct or realistic view, but it certainly is the competitor's, the athlete's view. Don't you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Do you, Greythan, believe the team should play to get as many wins as possible, damn the future? Or do you believe the franchise needs to play with a focus on building for the future?
    Remember, I've been very consistent about my desire to see Manziel play. I want that franchise QB in a bad bad way.

    That said I'm not going to castigate the organization for the decisions they've made thus far on the QB position. Quite frankly after seeing how well McCown has represented himself so far I have to give credit where credit is due. First, Farmer went out and got a steal in McCown as a gap starter/mentoring backup. Dude's 9th in passer rating with a suspect receiving corps and zero rushing offense. Second, Pettine steadfastly stood by the plan to play McCown even after Johnny electrified the field during his lone start. Third, Manziel looks much improved so credit back to the coaching staff seems logical.

    They have maintained they have an approach they plan to stick to. So far its looked pretty damn good in terms of our QB room.

    Into that headwind, I'm going to criticize them for not letting me see Manziel play just yet? Nope, not me. Now, if its week 12 and we're sitting at 2-9 with a McCown who's slipped to 15th or something in passer rating (vs moving up to 1st or some crazy shit); then I'd start getting vocal in questioning their "plan".

    Not at this stage, however.

  7. #55
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Cleveland (Euclid)
    Posts
    7,263
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Once again I'd like to bring back the thought process after johnny won that game...

    Johnny got to the point where the coaching staff had to have a discussion whether to roll with johnny the rest of the way.. or go back to josh.

    If it was that close weeks ago that it needed a round table...

    Why all of a sudden is it josh or bust?

    I guess that's a question I would have for pettine

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

  8. #56
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,453
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think its safe to say the objective each week is to win the game.
    Just because you start Manziel doesn't mean you're not trying to win the game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Why is it hogwash? I think you'd have one hell of a time standing up in front of the other 52 saying "We want to see how far one of our 1st round picks can take us". Going back to my previous comments, I think any athlete worth his salt would want the best 10 guys around him.
    It's hogwash because these are professional athletes. What "they" want individually comes second to what the "team" needs to do to get better. There shouldn't be a need to coddle these men. Your posts, to me, suggest you feel the players are fragile and the coaches and front office have to worry about the team not playing hard because McCown is a little better than JFF.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Into that headwind, I'm going to criticize them for not letting me see Manziel play just yet? Nope, not me. Now, if its week 12 and we're sitting at 2-9 with a McCown who's slipped to 15th or something in passer rating (vs moving up to 1st or some crazy shit); then I'd start getting vocal in questioning their "plan".
    I haven't criticized the team for not playing Manziel. I said it might turn out that keeping him on the bench watching McCown is the best thing for him. I don't think it is, but only time will tell.
    Last edited by Martin Eden; 10-29-2015 at 08:41 AM.

  9. #57
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Dublin, OH
    Posts
    7,838
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Martin, I'm not fighting with you on this topic. I'm just explaining my thought process as I interpret the actions coming out of Berea.

    I think the bottom line here is that the staff must still feel there's a marked gap between McCown and Manziel at least in terms of the earlier part of the season when winning is job one. That and the undeniable fact that the QB position has been the least of our concerns with McCown's more than solid play. The entire team is probably killing themselves to get the defense and rushing offense figured out. If those had improved as had been the goal, we'd be sitting here with the 9th rated passer and a winning record.

    It just isn't the QB.

  10. #58
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,453
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Greythan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think the bottom line here is that the staff must still feel there's a marked gap between McCown and Manziel at least in terms of the earlier part of the season when winning is job one. That and the undeniable fact that the QB position has been the least of our concerns with McCown's more than solid play. The entire team is probably killing themselves to get the defense and rushing offense figured out. If those had improved as had been the goal, we'd be sitting here with the 9th rated passer and a winning record.
    I agree with you that the least of the Browns problem is the QB situation. And I'm sorry if you think I'm trying to fight with you.

    I'm not as optimistic as you regarding the teams ability to "fix" what's wrong with the rest of the team this season and end up with a winning record.

    Our two wins have come against two of the worst teams in the NFL.

    I respect your opinion. Your posts are among the most soundly reasoned on this forum.

    Do you believe the Browns have a good chance of improving their running game and defense this season? To the point they can win the division and make the playoffs?

  11. #59
    brownsdownunder's Avatar
    brownsdownunder is offline Fuck Cancer! R.I.P Sean Webb I am a Golden God!!
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    13,125
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Once again I'd like to bring back the thought process after johnny won that game...

    Johnny got to the point where the coaching staff had to have a discussion whether to roll with johnny the rest of the way.. or go back to josh.

    If it was that close weeks ago that it needed a round table...

    Why all of a sudden is it josh or bust?

    I guess that's a question I would have for pettine
    Because Josh threw something like 7 passes before Johnny got his shot. Josh has since returned and broken franchise records while putting together a string of impressive performances. Pettine understands what Grey and I keep saying - the problem with this team is not quarterback. In fact, the only position playing as well as McCown is LT with Joe Thomas.

    What furthers that is Johnny didn't play exceptionally well. He got his ass kicked by New York, and Tennessee was a disaster with the exception of two (admittedly, wonderful) throws to a wide open Travis Benjamin. As I've pointed out before, Johnny has been wonderful on three throws - you take them away, he's right at the bottom of the league. He didn't play as well as people are romanticizing. He got his ass kicked one game, and held on in another under near ideal circumstances - defense destroyed Mariota and Benjamin went off on offense and special teams.

    It's just the reality of the world that Josh McCown is currently a better quarterback by a noticeable difference, and that's a blessing in itself. The current "problem" is just typical Browns fans. We're not winning? Bench the quarterback, ignore the litany of other issues. I know you think it's cute now, but we both know if Johnny starts the rest of the season and we're not winning, people will be begging to draft a quarterback in the next draft EVEN if Johnny is playing at a high level - and you won't like it then.

    To continue on that point, I pointed out that more often than not our defense is WORSE than what Johnny had to deal with in the Cinci game - sometimes dramatically. We've allowed fucking 400 yards of offense in more games than not. It's unfair to ask Johnny to deal with that, it's unfair to ask Josh to deal with that, but Josh is just handling it incredibly well.

    It all comes back to the same point, though - We've not made the change at quarterback because we're getting very good quarterback play, and quarterback is not the reason we're losing games. It's just not a point that can be argued, in spite of how furiously the fan base wants to argue it.

  12. #60
    brownsdownunder's Avatar
    brownsdownunder is offline Fuck Cancer! R.I.P Sean Webb I am a Golden God!!
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    13,125
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Browns HC Mike Pettine on Manziel: ppl focusing on off-field incident, but from football standpoint he's improved dramatically in all facets
    Took this from the twitter feed, from a radio station. Pettine also said trust factor with Manziel has "Improved dramatically."

  13. #61
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Cleveland (Euclid)
    Posts
    7,263
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I have re-tweeded the sound bite from Pettines statement.

    That is the most positive Ive heard him (tone wise) say nice things about Johnny..


    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

  14. #62
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    your toolbox
    Posts
    5,365
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Everyone keeps saying the qb is the least of our issues....

    If you have a winner at qb then your winning.

    If you have a loser at qb then your 2-5. Do we have a winner on this roster?


    PGL...you made me chuckle when you suggested we close out the season 7-2...
    just beat it

  15. #63
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Cleveland (Euclid)
    Posts
    7,263
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Hey man. If we take it 1 week at a time, and our players play up to their potential, I see no reason we CANT win 7 of the next 9. Honestly. I really do believe we have the talent. We just need to execute.

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

  16. #64
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    15,863
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I agree with you that the least of the Browns problem is the QB situation. And I'm sorry if you think I'm trying to fight with you.

    I'm not as optimistic as you regarding the teams ability to "fix" what's wrong with the rest of the team this season and end up with a winning record.

    Our two wins have come against two of the worst teams in the NFL.

    I respect your opinion. Your posts are among the most soundly reasoned on this forum.

    Do you believe the Browns have a good chance of improving their running game and defense this season? To the point they can win the division and make the playoffs?
    One of the things that is stunning is that this team was able to run the ball effectively the first part of the 2014 season and now it struggles, from both a RB and OL standpoint. I think the Browns really miss having a good OL coach and Mack's poor play is having a multiplier negative effect on the entire OL.

  17. #65
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    15,863
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gambler View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You guys are good, some very good points. I'm repeating myself. I'm not a Manziel guy, but I don't understand why you wouldn't start him against zona. For one, Josh hasn't practiced and his shoulder is not going to be healed by Sunday. You're actually putting him in danger of being injured again. And this is the perfect opportunity to see what JM can do without benching Josh. (injury) You can't save JM to play against an easy team, there are no easy teams. My fear is that the Browns are going to pass on a good QB in the draft, and JM doesn't pan out because he didn't play enough to get a true evaluation.
    That's my view. I agree with you that I can't imagine McCown really being fully capable to play well against a good Arizona defense and its ball hawking secondary. Like I said before, I predict McCown's injury problems will lead him to the bench and he'll be replaced at some point in the game by Manziel.

  18. #66
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Dublin, OH
    Posts
    7,838
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Eden View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I agree with you that the least of the Browns problem is the QB situation. And I'm sorry if you think I'm trying to fight with you.

    I'm not as optimistic as you regarding the teams ability to "fix" what's wrong with the rest of the team this season and end up with a winning record.

    Our two wins have come against two of the worst teams in the NFL.

    I respect your opinion. Your posts are among the most soundly reasoned on this forum.

    Do you believe the Browns have a good chance of improving their running game and defense this season? To the point they can win the division and make the playoffs?
    We're all good Martin. I didn't think you were trying to fight with me at all; rather I wanted to state directly that I wasn't trying to fight with you.

    Oh, and I'm not truly optimistic beyond my approach to every game where I convince myself we will win. Lots more to be pessimistic about at this stage for sure.

    As to your questions about righting the ship and making the playoffs: No, I have serious doubts. I am very much concerned that we may have less elite talent than necessary to drive top performance in rushing offense and overall defense. I hope that I'm wrong and a proverbial switch could, indeed, be fiipped. That would have to happen literally this weekend. 2-5 is on life support. 2-6 is DOA. 3-5? Well, you're now two wins from being .500.

    Long shot stuff for sure, but its not zero.

  19. #67
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Naples, FL
    Posts
    6,897
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Good news....it is anticipated Manziel is off the hook with the NFL...no sanctions or suspensions.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



  20. #68
    brownsdownunder's Avatar
    brownsdownunder is offline Fuck Cancer! R.I.P Sean Webb I am a Golden God!!
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    13,125
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    NFL.com listed in their "Trades we'd like to see" a trade between Cleveland and Jacksonville. We send them Alex Mack and Joe Haden, they send us their first round pick - and we use our two first round picks to trade up for Jared Goff.

    We should just throw in Joe Thomas, Joel Bitonio, Danny Shelton and our jerseys. I mean, if we're going to let them fuck us that hard, we may as well let them have the best fuck of their lives.

  21. #69
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Oklahoma City, Ok.
    Posts
    980
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    NFL.com listed in their "Trades we'd like to see" a trade between Cleveland and Jacksonville. We send them Alex Mack and Joe Haden, they send us their first round pick - and we use our two first round picks to trade up for Jared Goff.

    We should just throw in Joe Thomas, Joel Bitonio, Danny Shelton and our jerseys. I mean, if we're going to let them fuck us that hard, we may as well let them have the best fuck of their lives.
    will they take alex mack, justin gilbert, and coach o'neal for their 1st rd pick?

  22. #70
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    4,542
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    NFL.com listed in their "Trades we'd like to see" a trade between Cleveland and Jacksonville. We send them Alex Mack and Joe Haden, they send us their first round pick - and we use our two first round picks to trade up for Jared Goff.

    We should just throw in Joe Thomas, Joel Bitonio, Danny Shelton and our jerseys. I mean, if we're going to let them fuck us that hard, we may as well let them have the best fuck of their lives.
    Idk much about Goff other than people have been up and down on him all year but if Goff worked out and turned the franchise around that trade wouldn't even be judged harshly.
    In the words of Tony Rizzo... "FIND ME A FREAKING QUARTERBACK!"

  23. #71
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    your toolbox
    Posts
    5,365
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    NFL.com listed in their "Trades we'd like to see" a trade between Cleveland and Jacksonville. We send them Alex Mack and Joe Haden, they send us their first round pick - and we use our two first round picks to trade up for Jared Goff.

    We should just throw in Joe Thomas, Joel Bitonio, Danny Shelton and our jerseys. I mean, if we're going to let them fuck us that hard, we may as well let them have the best fuck of their lives.
    The way this season is trending and the general well being of the team, no one is safe...not even Andy Lee.

    I want a franchise QB. We need a franchise QB. Question should be, who is that guy??
    just beat it

  24. #72
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Broken Arrow, OK
    Posts
    6,445
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hammertime View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The way this season is trending and the general well being of the team, no one is safe...not even Andy Lee.

    I want a franchise QB. We need a franchise QB. Question should be, who is that guy??
    Good question. We don't know if Manziel is that guy and we are not even trying to find out. Maybe later this season. Maybe next year. Maybe never.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •