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Thread: Trades

  1. #121
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    Congratulations to Ray Farmer for going above and beyond to trade Joe Thomas to Denver. 1st and 2nd in exchange for Thomas and a 5th, is what he wanted. Given Denver's success, that's pretty much a 2nd and 3rd round pick.

    Thank god that fat piece of shit fucked it up. Utterly useless cunt. Thanks for the drive, Denver, we want to add the hall of famer to that list of shame for dirt cheap.

    I really hate that man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackOffense View Post
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    Curious as to what the hell happened to Haden? What a disastrous decline. There's something going on we don't know about. But is part of it the awful coaching of O'Neil's staff?
    What happened to Joe "The Grabber" Haden is that the refs won't let him grab anymore ... and since he can't cover with his feet... you could have stuck a fork in him in 2014.

    -Al

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    Joe Thomas is a GOAT! The only way you trade away a GOAT is if you got Don Corleone and Luca Brazzi in your face.

    Otherwise ... go fuck yourself!

    -Al

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    Yeah denver picks are gonna be bottom. Glad didnt happen....

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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgsDefense View Post
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    Yeah denver picks are gonna be bottom. Glad didnt happen....
    That's a good point! Denver may get to the Super Bowl and that first rounder will be semi-laughable since the Browns will probably draft about 4th in the second round anyhow!

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    From what I have seen/heard, this wasn't a case of Farmer TRYING to trade JT...it was a case of Denver trying to trade FOR him...and the Browns basically were willing to listen as long as the Broncos were willing to pay a premium....and they weren't. I doubt any of the 'details' we have seen in the news are even close to accurate.

    I really don't care. These conversations happen ALL THE TIME...the problem is somehow this got out to the media. The 'real' question is, who had the most to gain from letting it get out? Easy....Denver. They can now tell their fans that they TRIED to get JT...but the Browns were unreasonable. The Browns had absolutely ZERO reason to leak anything on this trade.

    So....we are now crucifying the Browns for Denver trying to play the blame game for not upgrading the LT position?

    Brilliant!!!
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



  7. #127
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    Alec Scheiner was putting the pressure on to trade

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    ....man, you guys and your conspiracy theories...the ONLY person talking Scheiner is Grossi...and he is a frickin' malcontent beat reporter that got fired for saying shit unsupported...then finally crossed the line by calling out the owner.

    Here is a direct quote regarding the 'trades':

    Browns general manager Ray Farmer said Tuesday the Browns had not shopped any player.

    "We didn't actively try to go out and move anybody,'' Farmer said. "There's not a single team that I called and said, 'Hey I'm shopping so and so.' There was no shopping from my perspective. But I definitely listened. I think that's part of my job.''
    ...and Farmer is CORRECT! He must ALWAYS listen. But to his benefit, when they didn't meet HIS demands, nothing happened.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



  9. #129
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    Funny....I had to go to a DENVER writer to get this info:

    It was Cleveland management's insistence on a first-rounder in the 2017 draft rather than in the opening round in April, when the Broncos figure to pick late on Day 1, plus a disagreement on an exchange of picks in the 2016 draft that caused trade negotiations to break down, according to a league source. As the deadline expired at 2 p.m. Tuesday, Elway calculated the cost to Denver in the next two drafts as too burdensome to accept.
    THAT is some negotiating. Make sure the 1st rd pick is WORTH getting...not some late (almost 2nd rd) pick. So much for Farmer being an idiot.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



  10. #130
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    Of course Ray Farmer came out afterwards and insisted they tried to trade for Joe Thomas and he was only listening but resilient in his love of Joe. Shame he opened his presser by saying "So for an example, I would call another team and say 'Hey, take a look at our roster, you see anything you like, give me a call back.'"

    The guy couldn't make it 23 seconds into his presser without tipping his hand that HE called them. Although, the whole "Give me a call back" line really does give him the ability to say "Hey, they called me!" without the caveat of "After I called them first and asked them to call me back."

    Also interesting, it came out days before the discussion itself that the BROWNS were SHOPPING Thomas, Mack and Mingo, and had the price in mind for what they actually wanted - Including a 3rd for Mack and Mingo, neither of whom apparently drew any interest so no team actually set that price but Cle.. Ray Farmer.

    And we have no idea what their 2017 pick is worth, but we do know they have the #1 ranked defense and an abundance of offensive talent. They might lose Manning, but they're undefeated with his 75 passer rating, so it's entirely likely they're not going to tumble to #1 overall in the space of a year. In fact, they might get even better.

    Bottom line is Ray Farmer tried to trade Joe Thomas, and smart fans are rightfully pissed at his lack of respect for the team, the team's legend and common sense that dictates a hall of fame left tackle is actually a good thing to have.

    Thanks for the 2017 first round pick, Farmer, we really looked forward to spending it filling the MASSIVE hole Joe would leave behind. I wonder if New England would trade Tom Brady because a young quarterback in the draft might be good. Seems like a smart move everyone could get behind.

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    BDU...I get it...you hate Farmer (based on your posts) and nothing he does or says is going to change that....BUT...there are a lot of variables out there that we are not privy to.

    For example...
    Perhaps there is an issue with JT and moving on to a guy like JM? He hasn't been shy about calling him out...just sayin'.
    I know Erving isn't starting, but maybe a younger more athletic LT is more what JM needs to defend him as he moves around...and Erving is better at that type of LT than JT?
    I looked at the rushing yards by direction stats....rushing behind JT to the left end is THE LOWEST stat by far...averaging 1.76...compared to right end at 3.07...do the Browns know something we don't know yet?

    I am not saying trading JT is the best thing...just that there are issues that may have made it worth looking into.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    Scheiner has become the loudest voice in the ear of owner Jimmy Haslam, said the source.
    Wonder who the source was. Could it be TBPP of BarkingHard? lol

    I can't stand it when a player whines to me or his teammates or his wife or the writers or anyone else.
    A whiner is almost always wrong. A winner never whines.
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  13. #133
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    Something can change my hate of Ray Farmer. More specifically - He can stop sucking at his job, he can not be such an arrogant prick and he can get a new face that I don't want to punch. Simple enough.

    - Joe Thomas is not standing in the way of Johnny. He simply said Johnny had lost trust LAST season, and any rational person, including Manziel, completely agreed. He's since gone on to speak extremely highly of him. Some may say that's just media talk, but Joe has shown that he's not afraid to tell it how he see's it. Most importantly, though, Joe's love of the Browns is unmatched. I don't think anyone wants to see this team winning as much as he does, and I don't think anyone has been as patient and supportive of the team as he has. If Johnny is that future, Joe isn't standing in his way at all.

    - That just hurts my head. Firstly, Irving is terrible at tackle. He wasn't even good at tackle in college. He was a fantastic center, a good guard, but a shit tackle. Cam Irving is not upgrading or even coming close to filling Joe's shoes any time soon. As for him protecting Johnny, how many guys does the dude have to shut down before he gets the rightful credit for being really, really, really, really good at protecting quarterbacks? Johnny should be so bloody lucky to have Joe Thomas watching his back, there literally isn't a better man for the job. Anyone watch Khalil Mack and Von Miller vs Joe Thomas? I think the winner of those battles, along with countless others, is evident. Question - Do you propose benching Joe Thomas for this Bengals game for Cam Irving?

    - Honestly, I don't know why the numbers are low on that side. Never looked in to it too deep. What I do know is I've never watched a game and thought "Wow, we'd be so much better without Joe Thomas." I suppose this is just another moment in which I point to the fact he's a future hall of famer and is quickly approaching double digit Pro-Bowl appearances - If the guy can't run block, nobody else has seen it. Although, the sentence "Maybe the Browns know something we don't know yet" because Ray Farmer is smart and everyone is dumb - Joe Thomas can't block.

    I'm not saying Joe Thomas being traded was a bad idea, but... wait, it is. It's a terrible idea and Farmer should be beaten with a kendo stick that is laced with razor blades and lemon juice for even considering it, much less actively trying to do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
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    I'm not saying Joe Thomas being traded was a bad idea, but... wait, it is. It's a terrible idea and Farmer should be beaten with a kendo stick that is laced with razor blades and lemon juice for even considering it, much less actively trying to do it.
    Now THAT is funny.

    Seriously...I was more impressed with the kings ransom requested than anything else...it told me that he really wasn't all that serious about it. Again...all the 'real' info is coming out of Denver...so it seems to me that Elway is trying to save face that he 'tried' to get JT....not that the Browns were really all that interested in trading him.

    The Erving stuff...meh...I was just spitballing. I agree that JT is the face of the Browns and even his name in trade talks irked the shit out of me...but I am not going to call out a GM for 'listening' or for shit that almost but didn't happen. There is enough shit that DID happen to worry about.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgFan View Post
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    Perhaps there is an issue with JT and moving on to a guy like JM? He hasn't been shy about calling him out...just sayin'.
    I know Erving isn't starting, but maybe a younger more athletic LT is more what JM needs to defend him as he moves around...and Erving is better at that type of LT than JT?
    I looked at the rushing yards by direction stats....rushing behind JT to the left end is THE LOWEST stat by far...averaging 1.76...compared to right end at 3.07...do the Browns know something we don't know yet?
    Dawg, I love you brother but this list was beyond a reach. There is no more athletic tackle in football than Joe Thomas. Bar none. His footwork will go down as one of, if not THE, best to ever play the game. Erving or any other young tackle can only dream of being as athletic.

    Sure, you might be right just like the sun might not come up tomorrow. I'm not putting much stock in it.

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    Farmer's suspect based if nothing else on two really tough facts at present: He's currently batting 1 for 4 with his first rounders in terms of active contribution to the team and b) textgate.

    I can't honestly give him the benefit of the doubt on this Thomas thing in light of the above. Yes, the fact is we did not trade Thomas so there is that. However, to just presume that Farmer was shrewdly testing the market versus we were really just one round away from trading Thomas for two shitty picks to a team that is going to draft late 20's this year and likely next is a big leap.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgFan View Post
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    Now THAT is funny.

    Seriously...I was more impressed with the kings ransom requested than anything else...it told me that he really wasn't all that serious about it. Again...all the 'real' info is coming out of Denver...so it seems to me that Elway is trying to save face that he 'tried' to get JT....not that the Browns were really all that interested in trading him.

    The Erving stuff...meh...I was just spitballing. I agree that JT is the face of the Browns and even his name in trade talks irked the shit out of me...but I am not going to call out a GM for 'listening' or for shit that almost but didn't happen. There is enough shit that DID happen to worry about.
    I guess I'm not impressed with the king's ransom because I view that as a very baseline representation of his value. A first round pick is merely what we'd need to recover from the loss of Thomas, to replace him, so a 2nd round is all we'd really be getting to invest elsewhere. That's how I see it - all we get is a second, and a first to use on a LT who likely won't be as good and, worst of all, could potentially be a bust. I think Joe is just one of those players who is too good to really ever get your value for in a trade because he's good enough to get a lot for, but it just doesn't equate to a huge profit.

    I appreciate the spit-balling, but I don't think there is much that could comfort me about it. It just rubs me the wrong way with a player like Joe. To be objective and fair, if I get trade requests when playing Madden, I'll always open them even if I have no intention of trading my player, even if just out of curiosity for what a team is offering. If I was a general manager, I'd list to every trade request and every player would be available in terms of me being open to listening to any potential deals they're willing to make. What I don't like though is that, as far as I can tell, that deal almost happened. It wasn't just hearing out deals, he was ready to make Joe Thomas walk with just a little more value in spite of the fact there isn't much value there. As was reported, if Thomas was traded, Mack would demand out. Jason Pinkston was pissed, so imagine how a lot of guys in the locker room would feel. Joe is a very popular guy, and it would have destroyed everyone and all faith in the locker room. Trading Joe says "Fuck it, I quit, we're starting over" and that's such a terrible move half way into the season - much less ever.

    Also, imagine Johnny getting his start this weekend, and us having no idea who the fucking left tackle would be. Man, that would be rough even to just mentally take. There isn't anything that could make me feel cool with that shit. It's just not right, in my eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
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    I guess I'm not impressed with the king's ransom because I view that as a very baseline representation of his value. A first round pick is merely what we'd need to recover from the loss of Thomas, to replace him, so a 2nd round is all we'd really be getting to invest elsewhere. That's how I see it - all we get is a second, and a first to use on a LT who likely won't be as good and, worst of all, could potentially be a bust.
    To further that point, getting a 1st round pick from a team like the Denver Broncos is really not worth that much. That would at BEST be a high 20's pick, more likely 30-32 overall. Not good enough, in my opinion. I am glad the Browns didn't make that trade.

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    Textgate doesn't bother me at all. That is one of those things where the shit got into the media (thanks Shanny) and they HAD to do something about it. I really do believe this happens all over the league...we just had a bitch snitch.

    As for the 1st rd picks...Shelton is new and is working in. Erving is trying to break into an OL that is pretty good (despite the stats)...and yes, I get why they used their 2nd 1st rounder on a guy that can fill in for JT and Mack...especially since Mack may be gone next year. Manziel? I like what I am seeing this year. Hell..if he pans out to a 10 year starter all this other shit is meaningless. Gilbert? That one is just WTF...but I truly believe that was a big part on Pettine. Sure sounded like a guy Pettine would want real bad.

    That 1 out of 4 can easily become 3 out of 4 with a franchise QB in the mix....and then all these "he screwed the 1st rd" stuff will be gone.
    Football is all about synergy. Replace a poor player with a great player and watch the surrounding players suddenly seem vastly improved. When you aren't covering for someone else, you can do YOUR JOB better.



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    I'm with you on this one BDU. An actual King's ransom of, say, 3 first rounders and one of Denver's edge rushers would have been the only way to sell the trade both internally to the team and to the fanbase. Even then it would have still required selling to both groups.

    If the rumors are even close to true regarding the depth of conversation around the terms that have been reported; its an abortion.

    If ole Grey were GM I would have laughed at Denver's offer. I would have been insulted. This isn't some Draft Day fantasy where the GM could have made two subsequent deals to get Joe back in Cleveland along with a stud LB and RB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgFan View Post
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    Textgate doesn't bother me at all. That is one of those things where the shit got into the media (thanks Shanny) and they HAD to do something about it. I really do believe this happens all over the league...we just had a bitch snitch.

    As for the 1st rd picks...Shelton is new and is working in. Erving is trying to break into an OL that is pretty good (despite the stats)...and yes, I get why they used their 2nd 1st rounder on a guy that can fill in for JT and Mack...especially since Mack may be gone next year. Manziel? I like what I am seeing this year. Hell..if he pans out to a 10 year starter all this other shit is meaningless. Gilbert? That one is just WTF...but I truly believe that was a big part on Pettine. Sure sounded like a guy Pettine would want real bad.

    That 1 out of 4 can easily become 3 out of 4 with a franchise QB in the mix....and then all these "he screwed the 1st rd" stuff will be gone.
    You're going on faith. That's my general schtick. I get it.

    The evidence just keeps trending the wrong way Dawg. You're having to work increasingly harder to "sell" Farmer as the next great GM. Again, I get it but think about how far you've had to go today even mentioning a potential factor being the need for a "better" (more athletic, really? ) LT.

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