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Thread: Interesting Theory Based only on rumors and speculation. Pettine V Farmer

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    Default Interesting Theory Based only on rumors and speculation. Pettine V Farmer

    This didnt come from me. Its actually something being posted in alot of places.

    It does fit with my "agenda" so to speak (and I say that jokingly) so I thought it would make for some good discussion.

    The rumor is that the 2 are at odds and because of that...

    and I shit you not, this is a real discussion...


    Pettine is spitefully benching Farmers draft picks and FA acquisitions to make him look bad.

    The rumor continues that the players being benched and/or sat... ARE ACTUALLY NOT BAD AT ALL and that its a power move by Pettine to try and keep his job.

    The players in question..

    Justin Gilbert
    Johnny Manziel
    Cameron Erving
    Danny Shelton (limited snaps)
    Dwayne Bowe
    Xavier Cooper
    Nate Orchard
    Duke Johnson (reduced snaps)
    etc.


    Now I know this is highly controversial, and many (A fe I can think of already) will call bullshit just because it doesnt fit their angle. Which is completely understandable.

    That being the case, the question I pose to you

    Is this possible? That are players are better than they look?

    Is it possible that some of the players Pettine decidedly keeps on the bench are better than whos in the game?


    I ask this question, because Pettine seems to constantly get a free pass.

    Everyone assumes Farmers picks and acquisitions suck, but no one every questions Pettines scheme, active roster, rotations, or ability to assess the talent he has and/or use it properly.


    I also hate the rebuttals to that, like when ppl say "its on the players to play well no matter the scheme..." or "if practice prevents them from getting on the field then they need to figure out how to practice etc."

    I just want to pose the question that what if our team is actually awesome, and contains multiple pro-bowl talent-esque players, but its being held back by the staff?


    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Sounds to me like Farmers people duped you pretty easily.

    Browns fans, always thinking their teams players are better than they are.

    I think our DC blows. Up to this point.

    We need some road graders on the OL, too much finesse dating back to that overrated dufus Holmgren.

    I can't stand it when a player whines to me or his teammates or his wife or the writers or anyone else.
    A whiner is almost always wrong. A winner never whines.
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    I think that's a hyperbolic of the true situation.

    My guess is pet felt his way was the best way to win (obviously); adjusting now would prove him wrong/farmer right; it's a no win for him now.

    He can blame his Cleveland experience on the farmer & manziel circus. If he embraces manziel, he can't do that; he won't. And he won't put manziel in a position to succeed either.

    Because if manziel does well... He looks like an idiot who invested two years in mccown and hoyer and got a shitty record out of it.

    If it goes well, he's fired because farmer wins.

    IMO, you HAVE to fire pet after the game this Thursday and hire flip as the Interim head coach.

    Why? Flip has nothing to lose-it's not going to hurt his career if the team plays bad. This is the type of guy you need for manziel.

    And the D? Looooord, idk, make Aaron Glenn the DC since our current DC is besties with our lame duck HC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoatShoes View Post
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    My guess is pet felt his way was the best way to win (obviously); adjusting now would prove him wrong/farmer right; it's a no win for him now.
    He can blame his Cleveland experience on the farmer & manziel circus. If he embraces manziel, he can't do that; he won't. And he won't put manziel in a position to succeed either.

    Because if manziel does well... He looks like an idiot who invested two years in mccown and hoyer and got a shitty record out of it.

    If it goes well, he's fired because farmer wins.
    Yes, exactly, this is a very astute observation, I have been thinking and saying the same thing since before the season began. Some people will say it's too complicated, that reality is never like that, that it's a conspiracy theory ... but reality is messy. Who can deny it, think of Harbaugh and the GM for 49ers, openly known in bay area they were constantly at odds. It just happens, power struggles, politics, people will tell you to wear a tin foil hat when you get cerebral in your analyses, but that's because they're afraid to believe in the truth ....
    Last edited by legerdemain; 11-02-2015 at 02:35 AM.

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    There's other things that I'm bothered by as well...

    1. Last year our defense looked great, but our offense was so bad they held the "D" back why the 180?

    2. Per pettine, farmer, and various other sources Pettine has been highly "involved" in personnel descisions. Pettine gave the thumbs up for each draft pick so if there's a a talent issue it's also partially on him. At the same time.. Farmer was drafting FOR PETTINES NEEDS

    3. The offensive line ideology. So last year we had shannahan... who used a zone blocking scheme for the run game exclusively. So of course our offensive line acquisitions have reflected that. Flip and Pettine said back when Flip was hired they would remain primarily a ZBS team with some power stuff tossed in. I have seen the exact opposite... a power run team with a sprinkle of the zbs. This makes our line and backs look awful.

    4. Rotations. We rotate our defensive personnel way too much.

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by legerdemain View Post
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    Some people will say it's too complicated, that reality is never like that, that it's a conspiracy theory ... but reality is messy. Who can deny it, think of Harbaugh and the GM for 49ers, openly known in bay area they were constantly at odds. It just happens, power struggles, politics, people will tell you to where a tin foil hat when you get so cerebral in your analyses, but that's because they're afraid to believe in the truth ....
    My response to those who shame it with the "conspiracy theory" rhetoric is simple.

    It's naive to think people who make millions of dollars don't think about how to continue to make millions of dollars.

    Of course politics are involved.
    And 'outs' are planned.

    Pet isn't worried about losing his job with the Browns. He's worried about not making it into the NFL fraternity of recycled coaches.

    Ironically, he strategizes for his future, but not his teams.

    And I guess you could speculate... Players probably smell that shit out easily.

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    This is getting beyond a joke. I swear Farmer is a jedi and he's using mind tricks to retard reality for some.

    And for the love of god, can we just please stop trying to pretend it's Pettine making Bowe look bad. Please. Let's just fucking stop. It is so embarrassing that people are trying to hold on to him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsdownunder View Post
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    This is getting beyond a joke. I swear Farmer is a jedi and he's using mind tricks to retard reality for some.

    And for the love of god, can we just please stop trying to pretend it's Pettine making Bowe look bad. Please. Let's just fucking stop. It is so embarrassing that people are trying to hold on to him.
    When Pettine was asked why he brought Durbin in over Johnson in the second half, after Johnson had been tearing it up in the first, Pett replied, "we rotate our offensive playmakers." Yet somehow it didn't occur to Pett to rotate Bowe in after Hartline's numerous drops?

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    To the OP, you post some really stupid shit, this may be your pinnacle.
    If you don't watch the games yourself and only parrot what the talking heads say YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WRITE THAT I CARE TO READ BECAUSE YOU ARE AN ASSHAT. i mean that in the best way possible of course. At the behest of a much respected one here I have altered my sig. Will he notice? :-)

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    There might be something to the OP. I would argue there is enough evidence to at least make that argument.

    I'll offer two points:

    1. The inexplicable decision to cut Duke Johnson out of the offensive gameplan in the second half against the Cardinals

    2. The physical ability of Justin Gilbert. Gilbert by all accounts has battled maturity issues. Those aside, if you watch this kid when he is on the field he is CLEARLY an athletic specimen. When he does touch the ball his physical ability shines through. I can't for a minute believe that physical ability , regardless of his ability to memorize Pettine's playbook, can't overcome on the field if put in the right positions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay View Post
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    Sounds to me like Farmers people duped you pretty easily.

    Browns fans, always thinking their teams players are better than they are.

    I think our DC blows. Up to this point.

    We need some road graders on the OL, too much finesse dating back to that overrated dufus Holmgren.
    I still believe some of this is bad coaching. I agree Browns need an overhaul on the OL-- and everywhere else! it seems like we are starting from scratch AGAIN!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LHCDawgPound View Post
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    There might be something to the OP. I would argue there is enough evidence to at least make that argument.

    I'll offer two points:

    1. The inexplicable decision to cut Duke Johnson out of the offensive gameplan in the second half against the Cardinals

    2. The physical ability of Justin Gilbert. Gilbert by all accounts has battled maturity issues. Those aside, if you watch this kid when he is on the field he is CLEARLY an athletic specimen. When he does touch the ball his physical ability shines through. I can't for a minute believe that physical ability , regardless of his ability to memorize Pettine's playbook, can't overcome on the field if put in the right positions.
    Not playing Johnson was idiotic in the extreme. I just can't believe DeFlip is that dense.

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    I think the D is on O'Neil and Pett. Those players are not 32nd place players. The right coach would make them a top-10 D with maybe one or two more pieces.

    As far as the conspiracy goes, I dunno.

    I'll admit a) Duke Johnson not being involved on every series is a head scratcher and b) The heisman winner barely seeing garbage time when this regime wanted him is odd.
    2017 Draft class: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 Draft picks: Extra picks - a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), & a 6th (Steelers/Gilbert) - 12 total
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)

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    I doubt this. Pett doesn't seem this narcissistic and selfish.


    2017 Draft class: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 Draft picks: Extra picks - a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), & a 6th (Steelers/Gilbert) - 12 total
    Philly trade result: C. Coleman, Peppers, Kizer, Kessler, R. Louis, S. Coleman, Drango, Kindred, Payton, 2018 1st rndr (Texans) & 2018 2nd rndr (Eagles)

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    Pettine - may Never get one of these jobs again, so he wants to win above all else.
    if he has a spare minute he might do some hating on Farmer and Jimmy or when he Has to meet with them.
    you know those dumb asses above you that for love of Pete you are clueless of how they got there. neptunium or brown nosing ?
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    Ok let me reverse a bit here and put this whole thing in a different light.

    Long story short, I'm saying Pettine and Farmer both want to keep their jobs, and they have no issue devising to scapegoat eachother to make an argument to jimmy.
    Last edited by PlaygroundLegend; 11-02-2015 at 09:55 AM. Reason: autocorrect

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    If I am Ray Farmer I am in Haslem's office this morning laying down a he goes or I go ultimatum. I would also have a interim Head Coach in mind as well as a interim DC. Seeing how the next game is in 3 days followed by 1 game in 17 days I would plan to let Pettine go after what will probably be an ugly loss to the Bengals. The "interim" guy would be tasked with actually playing and developing the youngsters that Pettine refuses to play.

    That will serve two purposes, one it will clear up for Farmer exactly where he stands, if Jimmy says "don't let the door hit you in the ass" Ray can move on. Ray Farmer will land on his feet, he is well connected and I have a sense Ray knows where the bodies are buried (fell on the sword over textgate, etc). I actually think Farmer knows what he is doing and has to be frustrated with how this team is being handled by the Head Coach.

    As for Pettine, he has to be a dead man walking. The defensive guru who cannot put together a defense, who looks severely overmatched as an NFL head coach, and frankly does not seem to bring a single intangible to the table other then he looks the part. Whether its this weekend or the end of the season I don't see a way he survives.

    I think back to 1984, Browns started 1-7 and were dreadful. Team fired Sam Rutigliano and put Marty in charge and the team goes 4-4 to finish that year, 8-8 with a playoff berth in 1985, and AFC Championship game in 1986. This team does not have to "blow it up" until they have a read on what the have. That will not happen with Pettine and its imperative that we see exactly what we have over the last 8 games to the make the proper moves in 2016.

    I refuse to believe that the team is as far away as it appears. I do believe that it has been mismanaged from a coaching standpoint and the stench of Mike Pettine really needs to be removed from the organization sooner rather then later.
    Last edited by brutalfacts; 11-02-2015 at 09:06 AM.

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    Pett reportedly works well with, and likes, Bill K (Farmer's replacement during the suspension) - per the pay site.
    2017 Draft class: Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Kizer, Ogunjobi, Collins (via trade of 103), Wilson, Johnson, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes
    2018 Draft picks: Extra picks - a 1st (Texans), two in 2nd (Eagles & Texans), a 4th (Panthers/A.Lee), & a 6th (Steelers/Gilbert) - 12 total
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    Quote Originally Posted by OconRecon View Post
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    Pett reportedly works well with, and likes, Bill K (Farmer's replacement during the suspension) - per the pay site.
    When your 2-11 in your last 13 games and regressing weekly who really cares what/who you like. The worst thing the Browns can do at this point is cater in any way to Pettine, it's like throwing good money after bad.

    He needs to go.

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    With Manziel and probably others as well, the Pettine philosophy is playbook first. You are talking about rookies who will not understand some of the concepts as well as the vets, even after a couple of seasons.

    Consequently, there really is no competition for most positions. If you believe your draft picks have talent and upside, you eventually have to let them make mistakes on the field.

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    ...is this a real discussion? Why would Pettine purposely sabotage his own team? This would be a compelling storyline aside from the fact that it makes no sense. But I guess these are the types of conversations we have after so many years of ineptitude and in the midst of another lost season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaygroundLegend View Post
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    Ok let me reverse a bit here and put those whole thing in a different light.

    Long story short, I'm saying Pettine and Farmer both was to keep their jobs, and they have no issue devising to scapegoat eachother to make an argument to jimmy.
    Plausible. Depressing, but plausible.

    All this said, BS's line about millionaires wanting to stay millionaires is a fair point. But ask yourself how putting a complex conspiracy plan in place to purposefully torch the organization you work for sets you up to get hired by another franchise?

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    I don't believe he's trying to sabotage. I believe he favors veterans with experience and the trust factor is very important to Pet. That is a problem if you have an abundance of draft picks that don't see the field on a losing team.

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    Think about it guys.. honestly.

    Mathmatically.

    What are the chances 4 first round draft picks, who had 4 first round grades from scouts everywhere turn out to be this bad and not even playable?

    Seriously..

    Depending on what side of the fence you are on you could say:

    A: Well Ray Farmer is THAT bad..

    B: Mike Pettine is that bad and/or just wont play them..

    It diesnt make sense guys, it really doesnt. It HAS to be Pettine. Seriously

    The time has come! Our Dynasty lies ahead!

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